I will NEVER buy the Gerber Crucial. I wanted to before, but I like the Skeletool too much. LM had a phenomenal idea of a minimalist tool and Gerber made an inferior abomination... I don't blame Gerber for copying the idea, but it's based on the Skeletool. It even has a carabiner. That tells me that the Gerber guys are running out of ideas! A few Gerbers aren't bad, but they are not my cup of tea. I will never buy another Gerber multiplier until they come out with an original design that is good... I like Gerber knives, I'll still by them. Sure, LM copied Gerber's idea of replaceable wire cutters: the thing is that LM improved on that design. They didn't make a knockoff or anything. I understand the MT manufacturers "borrow" ideas from other companies, but still, you can take the idea but use some ingenuity and make it a little different!
Quote from: SingleTool on August 08, 2009, 05:59:37 AMI'm probably gonna be bashed for this but I probably won't get any Swiss army plier style muti-tool, they seem to be just a SAK in plier form factor with the small bladed tools.- where is the sense in that? I'll just get more SAK if I wanted. nothing wrong with that, those hobby pliers can't be used for much and your views and opinions are valid
I'm probably gonna be bashed for this but I probably won't get any Swiss army plier style muti-tool, they seem to be just a SAK in plier form factor with the small bladed tools.- where is the sense in that? I'll just get more SAK if I wanted.
Quote from: Leatherman123 on August 08, 2009, 03:17:03 AMI will NEVER buy the Gerber Crucial. I wanted to before, but I like the Skeletool too much. LM had a phenomenal idea of a minimalist tool and Gerber made an inferior abomination... I don't blame Gerber for copying the idea, but it's based on the Skeletool. It even has a carabiner. That tells me that the Gerber guys are running out of ideas! A few Gerbers aren't bad, but they are not my cup of tea. I will never buy another Gerber multiplier until they come out with an original design that is good... I like Gerber knives, I'll still by them. Sure, LM copied Gerber's idea of replaceable wire cutters: the thing is that LM improved on that design. They didn't make a knockoff or anything. I understand the MT manufacturers "borrow" ideas from other companies, but still, you can take the idea but use some ingenuity and make it a little different!Sorry, but you are talking out of your bottom. Gerber can't copy a LM idea (which actually isn't exactly the same and was actually Bucks idea first) but Leatherman can copy Gerber and that's fine? From your comments it seems you regard the Crucial as being the same as a Skeletool, have you seen the Crucial at all as it looks far more innovative and different than the absolute blatant copy of the carbide cutters.This is a perfect example of double standards - sorry.
I don't blame Gerber for copying the idea, but it's based on the Skeletool. It even has a carabiner. That tells me that the Gerber guys are running out of ideas!... Gerber blatantly copied the Skeletool with the carabiner, one handed blade, and pocket clip...even the handles have a Skeletool appearance.
Quote from: WhichDawg on August 08, 2009, 01:16:56 PMQuote from: SingleTool on August 08, 2009, 05:59:37 AMI'm probably gonna be bashed for this but I probably won't get any Swiss army plier style muti-tool, they seem to be just a SAK in plier form factor with the small bladed tools.- where is the sense in that? I'll just get more SAK if I wanted. nothing wrong with that, those hobby pliers can't be used for much and your views and opinions are valid I assumed he was talking about the Swisstools (not SAK's with pliers). Maybe wrong though.
That's as silly as Spyderco claiming they own a patent over a circle!
Quote from: PyroJames on August 09, 2009, 04:55:13 AMThat's as silly as Spyderco claiming they own a patent over a circle!they (people) do debate that all the time! who did the hole first!
Sure, LM copied Gerber's idea of replaceable wire cutters: the thing is that LM improved on that design. They didn't make a knockoff or anything.
I know this will come as no suprise to most of you but a Chinese one.
Quote from: american lockpicker on August 09, 2009, 05:41:21 AMI know this will come as no suprise to most of you but a Chinese one.Too late:http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,12088.0.html
Leatherman doesn't own patents for the carabiner, one handed blade, pocket clip and "crescent" shaped handles so any company can make a tool with those features. However, a company can't make a tool 100% identical to the Skeletool and give it a similar name like "Skele-tool" or "Skelli-Tool" because THAT would be blatantly copying them.
When pictures of the Crucial were first posted, the mass reaction from everyone was, "Hey, that looks just like a Skeletool!"
Quote from: Benner on August 08, 2009, 08:28:40 PMQuote from: Leatherman123 on August 08, 2009, 03:17:03 AMI will NEVER buy the Gerber Crucial. I wanted to before, but I like the Skeletool too much. LM had a phenomenal idea of a minimalist tool and Gerber made an inferior abomination... I don't blame Gerber for copying the idea, but it's based on the Skeletool. It even has a carabiner. That tells me that the Gerber guys are running out of ideas! A few Gerbers aren't bad, but they are not my cup of tea. I will never buy another Gerber multiplier until they come out with an original design that is good... I like Gerber knives, I'll still by them. Sure, LM copied Gerber's idea of replaceable wire cutters: the thing is that LM improved on that design. They didn't make a knockoff or anything. I understand the MT manufacturers "borrow" ideas from other companies, but still, you can take the idea but use some ingenuity and make it a little different!Sorry, but you are talking out of your bottom. Gerber can't copy a LM idea (which actually isn't exactly the same and was actually Bucks idea first) but Leatherman can copy Gerber and that's fine? From your comments it seems you regard the Crucial as being the same as a Skeletool, have you seen the Crucial at all as it looks far more innovative and different than the absolute blatant copy of the carbide cutters.This is a perfect example of double standards - sorry.Ben, I honestly think you are completely wrong. Buck did indeed introduce a minimalist concept with the X-Tract. But, it's based around a knife blade, the Skeletool is based around a pair of pliers with a pocket clip and a carabiner for a bunch of different carry options. The X-Tract is a sheath carry tool really. It's not meant to replace your EDC folder etc. Gerber blatantly copied the Skeletool with the carabiner, one handed blade, and pocket clip...even the handles have a Skeletool appearance. Gerber wasn't the first company to manufacture replaceable wire cutters on pliers either. I remember seeing them on high grade fishing pliers way before Gerber came out with them. I believe Van Staal was the first to have replaceable cutters.I think your the one talking out of your bottom.
I understand what you mean. I understand that the companies borrow ideas, but Gerber went too far with the Skeletool. That's what I'm getting at!
Quote from: PyroJames on August 09, 2009, 04:55:13 AMLeatherman doesn't own patents for the carabiner, one handed blade, pocket clip and "crescent" shaped handles so any company can make a tool with those features. However, a company can't make a tool 100% identical to the Skeletool and give it a similar name like "Skele-tool" or "Skelli-Tool" because THAT would be blatantly copying them.I understand what you are saying, but an object is more than the sum of its parts. When pictures of the Crucial were first posted, the mass reaction from everyone was, "Hey, that looks just like a Skeletool!" They were not reacting to the individual features and figuring out how they compared to the Skeletool. They were reacting to the Crucial's striking visual resemblance to LM's patented ornamental design of the Skeletool.The Skeletool possesses a very distinctive and highly stylized look. Gerber copied many aspects of that design for the Crucial. If you look at the first thread about the Crucial, the first few pages are nothing but people saying that it looks like a Skeletool! That's pretty strong evidence that Gerber stole the look of the Skeletool, no? Incidentally, it would make little sense for LM to sue at this point since they claim much more in damages if they wait a while.Of course, I may be completely wrong since I am not an expert in patent law, but I guess everyone knows that already...
Quote from: Leatherman123 on August 09, 2009, 04:32:46 AMI don't blame Gerber for copying the idea, but it's based on the Skeletool. It even has a carabiner. That tells me that the Gerber guys are running out of ideas!... Gerber blatantly copied the Skeletool with the carabiner, one handed blade, and pocket clip...even the handles have a Skeletool appearance. Leatherman doesn't own patents for the carabiner, one handed blade, pocket clip and "crescent" shaped handles so any company can make a tool with those features. However, a company can't make a tool 100% identical to the Skeletool and give it a similar name like "Skele-tool" or "Skelli-Tool" because THAT would be blatantly copying them. If Leatherman felt that the Crucial copied the Skeletool too closely, there would already be a lawsuit against Gerber but there isn't. I would be surprised if Leatherman did decide to sue Gerber over the Crucial. That's as silly as Spyderco claiming they own a patent over a circle!
However I am allways up for a good Gerber china connection debate.
This thread makes you appreciate the efforts of companies who do push the envelope even more, like CKRT, Spyderco's SpyderWrench, even SOG, etc. Love 'em or hate 'em, they are taking big risks and really trying something new.
Donations
Community Links
