Structural Difference between Kf4 and CS4

Mr. Whippy · **on:** October 12, 2009, 03:56:50 AM

I was just looking at the two side by side and noticed that on the Kf4, each side has 2 thick back springs. On the CS4, one side has 2 thick backsprings but the other side has 3 thinner back springs. The two tools are the same thickness overall but have different tools (as you all know

)

Just surprised that they'd differ in structure.

scrappy · **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2009, 06:53:21 AM

the construction of the juice tools is odd. the handles have no one piece construction like most tools. that is obvious but I have always thought it is weird

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #2 on:** October 14, 2009, 03:44:57 AM

All my KF4s (only 3

) have a "2 thick" side and a "3 thin" side... I wonder if yours is a ~~mistake~~ unique collectable, or maybe they made KF4s (or all Juices) that way at some point.

I'm Jsews will figure this out for us.

J-sews · **Reply #3 on:** October 14, 2009, 03:54:47 AM

Quote from: NeitherExtreme on October 14, 2009, 03:44:57 AM

All my KF4s (only 3 ) have a "2 thick" side and a "3 thin" side... I wonder if yours is a ~~mistake~~ unique collectable, or maybe they made KF4s (or all Juices) that way at some point.

I'm Jsews will figure this out for us.

+1 on the ~~mistake~~ unique collectable theory. $:-\$

Those backsprings are meant to line up with the inner screwdrivers. Three thin ones line up with the flatheads, two thick ones line up with the phillips and lanyard ring.

Poncho65 · **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2009, 04:43:47 AM

A mystery I like it

J-sews · **Reply #5 on:** October 14, 2009, 04:48:28 AM

So Mr W, if you unfold the center flathead screwdriver on your Kf4, do the other two flop out aways?

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2009, 02:30:54 PM

I'll check it out!

Wow. I've got a unique (badly constructed) MT! Woot!

DaveK · **Reply #7 on:** October 15, 2009, 10:01:38 PM

That's pretty cool. Pictures please

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2009, 02:47:58 AM

Quote from: DaveK on October 15, 2009, 10:01:38 PM

That's pretty cool. Pictures please

Your wish is my command:

KF4 both sides' springs:

Tools fanned:

Inside shot of springs on the flat driver side:

Inside shot of springs on the phillips side:

KF4 logo

J-sews · **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:36:07 AM

Quote from: J-sews on October 14, 2009, 04:48:28 AM

So Mr W, if you unfold the center flathead screwdriver on your Kf4, do the other two flop out aways?

Well.........?

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #10 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:47:15 AM

Quote from: J-sews on October 16, 2009, 03:36:07 AM

Quote from: J-sews on October 14, 2009, 04:48:28 AM
So Mr W, if you unfold the center flathead screwdriver on your Kf4, do the other two flop out aways?

Well.........?

Not exactly flop, but the other two have no spring resistance. Likewise, if I pull out one of the side drivers, the center one doesn't have spring resistance. They don't flop out however. Great observation Bob!

J-sews · **Reply #11 on:** October 16, 2009, 03:49:46 AM

A ~~mistake~~ unique collectable indeed!

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #12 on:** October 16, 2009, 04:16:25 AM

Great. $:-\$

Now I gotta retire it and find another KF4 user...

NutSAK · **Reply #13 on:** October 19, 2009, 05:29:09 AM

Quote from: Mr. Whippy on October 16, 2009, 04:16:25 AM

Great. $:-\$

Now I gotta retire it and find another KF4 user...

I have a KF4 like this too, with the two wider backsprings on each side. Mine is an older yellow one with "Leatherman USA" on the plier head. I also have a storm grey one with "Leatherman Tool" on the head that has the three thinner backsprings behind the flatheads.

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2009, 12:39:12 PM

Quote from: NutSAK on October 19, 2009, 05:29:09 AM

Quote from: Mr. Whippy on October 16, 2009, 04:16:25 AM
Great. $:-\$

Now I gotta retire it and find another KF4 user...

I have a KF4 like this too, with the two wider backsprings on each side. Mine is an older yellow one with "Leatherman USA" on the plier head. I also have a storm grey one with "Leatherman Tool" on the head that has the three thinner backsprings behind the flatheads.

Maybe that's an older design then? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?.

DaveK · **Reply #15 on:** October 19, 2009, 07:32:05 PM

Hmmm - not sure it's an age thing. I have a 0601 KF4 (USA) that has three springs on on side. 0601 is pretty much as old as the KF4 gets. I also have a 0901 with the USA ground out and an 0402 (TOOL).

They are all the same

NutSAK · **Reply #16 on:** October 19, 2009, 08:32:20 PM

DOH! I forgot to check the date code on mine... I'll try to do that this evening.

Maybe Mr. Whippy and I just happened to each get a KF4 from the same run, and they were out of the thin springs at the time?

DaveK · **Reply #17 on:** October 19, 2009, 08:35:35 PM

It's as good a theory as I can come up with!

We need a few more people to contribute to this thread and see how unusual they actually are, although there's a distinct chance that we could be opening another, PST-like can of worms.

Great

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #18 on:** October 19, 2009, 09:16:50 PM

Quote from: DaveK on October 19, 2009, 08:35:35 PM

It's as good a theory as I can come up with!

We need a few more people to contribute to this thread and see how unusual they actually are, although there's a distinct chance that we could be opening another, PST-like can of worms.

Great

....and once you've opened a can of worms, the whole place begins to stink of frogs. BTDT.

NutSAK · **Reply #19 on:** October 20, 2009, 02:58:18 AM

Quote from: DaveK on October 19, 2009, 07:32:05 PM

Hmmm - not sure it's an age thing. I have a 0601 KF4 (USA) that has three springs on on side. 0601 is pretty much as old as the KF4 gets. I also have a 0901 with the USA ground out and an 0402 (TOOL).

They are all the same

My goofy-sprung KF4 has an 0601 date code also.

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #20 on:** October 20, 2009, 03:33:20 AM

Quote from: NutSAK on October 20, 2009, 02:58:18 AM

Quote from: DaveK on October 19, 2009, 07:32:05 PM
Hmmm - not sure it's an age thing. I have a 0601 KF4 (USA) that has three springs on on side. 0601 is pretty much as old as the KF4 gets. I also have a 0901 with the USA ground out and an 0402 (TOOL).

They are all the same

My goofy-sprung KF4 has an 0601 date code also.

Weird...

My date code is 1090....

Seriously, mine's 0601 too.

J-sews · **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2009, 04:55:46 AM

Spooky.

Doraemon · **Reply #22 on:** January 28, 2012, 04:14:53 PM

Date code on mine is 0401. USA.

Two springs. Maybe they did the switch in June.

J-sews · **Reply #23 on:** January 28, 2012, 11:44:10 PM

Hey! I was just thinking about this thread the other day! (but couldn't find it) I've got some juicy info and more pictures to post

But I have to leave right now for a party.

But I'll be back in a bit......

Mr. Whippy · **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2012, 12:16:14 AM

Quote from: J-sews on January 28, 2012, 11:44:10 PM

Hey! I was just thinking about this thread the other day! (but couldn't find it) I've got some juicy info and more pictures to post

But I have to leave right now for a party. But I'll be back in a bit......

Excellent pun!

$:-\$

I can't wait any longer!!!!

enki_ck · **Reply #25 on:** January 29, 2012, 02:42:04 AM

These structural differences were always interesting to me. I mean, all Juice models have different arengements of tools, different backsprings (2 or 3), different pivot points of specific tools, like for instance on some the knife pivots around the plier pivot, on some around the screwdriver pivot. Very interesting tool indeed.

.
.
.
.
.

Mr. Bob, is the party over yet?

J-sews · **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2012, 04:49:17 AM

It was such a great party, I almost forgot to come back here!

So anyhow, awhile back I bought this snazzy Leatherman pouch.....

....and inside, there were two sets of Juice tools.

I'm thinking this was a Salesman's kit, meant to show potential buyers what the (then new) Leatherman Juice series was all about....?

That's my guess anyhow.

All five tools on the lower flap are dated 0401 on both handles, which is the earliest date code we've seen on any Juice. And all five of them have two thick backsprings on both handles.

The tools on the top flap are even more special.

Not only do they have the two thick backsprings on both handles, but they also have NO date codes.

And the LEATHERMAN PAT PEND stamping on the back was done in chem etch, instead of being stamped into the metal. (see below)

Same goes for the LEATHERMAN USA logo on the plier pivot. It was chem etched (on right below) instead of being cast in like all the ones that came after.

So anyhow, I think when Leatherman first started producing Juice tools in the spring of 2001, there were no thin backsprings made. Its just a theory of course, but maybe they didn't realize that they would need the three thin ones on one side until after production started, and someone started playing with the screwdrivers and said, "Oh crap............."

scrappy · **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2012, 05:32:58 AM

without the thin back springs, are there any problems?

J-sews · **Reply #28 on:** January 30, 2012, 05:53:09 AM

Quote from: scrappy on January 30, 2012, 05:32:58 AM

without the thin back springs, are there any problems?

No problems really. It's like Mr Whippy said, if you open the center screwdriver first, then the other ones don't have much backspring pressure holding them closed. But its not like they flop out or anything.

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2012, 11:28:55 PM

Very cool Bob, and awesome catch with those early Juices.

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