Structural Difference between Kf4 and CS4

[David]

Reckon thats some interesting history and  Juices there Bob.        

[enki_ck]

This looks familiar. "Awhile back" as in "Jul 02, 2011" maybe? 

Where's the translucent one?  

[J-sews]

I can't believe you remember the exact date!

[enki_ck]

I knew it!    Sneaky.

You don't forget a multi like that. I remembered the pouch so I searched a bit and found the auction, checked the pics, ... but something was missing.

That really is one for the vault.

[J-sews]

Yeah, I've been meaning to take some better pictures of it. It is pretty cool.

[David]

Bob we definitely need more pics of that gem!       


On a side note. With the above info your going to have me bugging sellers about date codes and back springs on Juices. It just use to be plier head markings of USA, milled, TOOL. now its back springs. Is there no end to it.            

[enki_ck]

Yeah, I've been meaning to take some better pictures of it. It is pretty cool.

Maybe a side shot to compare the thickness of the plastic scales to the regular ones. Are they thicker? How's the feel compared to the translucent Victorinox scales?

[J-sews]

So, it appears the 2 spring setup was early production and later changed to 3 springs for the flat drivers.  Very interesting!


(I just wanted to use that smilie  )

I wonder if it was an oversight at first, or did they think two springs would suffice and later figured they needed a 3 spring configuration...

Good question Nate. I wonder if we will ever know? In any case, the shape of the thinner backsprings is exactly the same as the thicker ones, so it was probably just a matter of feeding some thinner stock through the punch press once they decided to make the change.

[J-sews]

Yeah, I've been meaning to take some better pictures of it. It is pretty cool.

Maybe a side shot to compare the thickness of the plastic scales to the regular ones. Are they thicker? How's the feel compared to the translucent Victorinox scales?

Tell you what enki, I'll do a full write up on it soon with more pictures.

[J-sews]

Bob we definitely need more pics of that gem!       


On a side note. With the above info your going to have me bugging sellers about date codes and back springs on Juices. It just use to be plier head markings of USA, milled, TOOL. now its back springs. Is there no end to it.            

And don't forget, now they are laser etching a new style LEATHERMAN logo on them

[David]

Bob we definitely need more pics of that gem!       


On a side note. With the above info your going to have me bugging sellers about date codes and back springs on Juices. It just use to be plier head markings of USA, milled, TOOL. now its back springs. Is there no end to it.            

And don't forget, now they are laser etching a new style LEATHERMAN logo on them

Ah yes, I forgot about the new logo.     I do have a CS4 of that variety.   

[MultiMat]

Yep Nate I reckon you are right on the 2 spring set up being a early production deal. I had a look at my 5 Juices , my Pro is a 0602 , Kf4 0202,SC2(clear)1202 & SC2(blue)0203 all have the combined 2 & 3 spring set up. My XE6 is a 0401 & it has a 2 & 2 set up.


Quirky XE6

Standard Juice set up , Pro.


XE6 sports early pliers.



My XE6 is a bit different in that it has no model identification on it's scales. I think it missed out on the process as opposed to having the markings removed 

[kd8fre]

I have an interesting KF4.  On the flat-head screwdriver side, it has a 0901 date code. on the other side, there is no date code that I can find.

Mine has the 2/3 backspring arrangement.

[enki_ck]

I have an interesting KF4.  On the flat-head screwdriver side, it has a 0901 date code. on the other side, there is no date code that I can find.

Mine has the 2/3 backspring arrangement.

Try looking under the screwdrivers for the date code.

[kd8fre]

I have an interesting KF4.  On the flat-head screwdriver side, it has a 0901 date code. on the other side, there is no date code that I can find.

Mine has the 2/3 backspring arrangement.

Try looking under the screwdrivers for the date code.

Well, there it is.  Both halves are 0901 date codes.

[J-sews]

Yep Nate I reckon you are right on the 2 spring set up being a early production deal. I had a look at my 5 Juices , my Pro is a 0602 , Kf4 0202,SC2(clear)1202 & SC2(blue)0203 all have the combined 2 & 3 spring set up. My XE6 is a 0401 & it has a 2 & 2 set up.

(Image removed from quote.)
Quirky XE6
(Image removed from quote.)
Standard Juice set up , Pro.

(Image removed from quote.)
XE6 sports early pliers.

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
My XE6 is a bit different in that it has no model identification on it's scales. I think it missed out on the process as opposed to having the markings removed 

Mat, I believe I have the identical twin to your quirky Xe6. Mine has 2 & 2 backsprings, 0401 date codes, and no markings on the scales whatsoever.

[Cyclone82]

We need a few more people to contribute to this thread and see how unusual they actually are

Well i have a gray and yellow one and both have 2 springs on the phillips side and 3 on the awl side. Both have Leatherman USA cast in the plier head and Leatherman  pat pend stamped into the back parts. i have 2 more but they are in boxes just at the moment. I can not find any dates. Where are they ment to be?

[enki_ck]

We need a few more people to contribute to this thread and see how unusual they actually are

Well i have a gray and yellow one and both have 2 springs on the phillips side and 3 on the awl side. I can not find any dates. Where are they ment to be?

Open the screwdrivers and look under them on the liners.

[Cyclone82]

Very hard to see them in the level of light i am in now but the
yellow is 0901 - both sides
grey is 0102 - both sides

I got another 2 and all 4 were bought from the same place .

[Cyclone82]

I got another 4 KF4's yesterday and thankfully they were not fakes which i was worried about. 3 out of the 4 had the 3 springs on the serated blade side. The other one had the 2 springs. All marked USA. In my opinion this is a bad design as out of the 4 its the one with the 2 springs that has trouble. There screw drivers are not held closed properly and when i want to fold the pliers up, they just jam and lock. The plier tips get caught on the screw drivers. This i am sure is only because of the 2 back spring annomoly. I do not have this problem with the other 6 Juices i have.

[Outback in Idaho]

I can't believe you remember the exact date!



(Image removed from quote.)

  Translucent Juices ... 

[Poncho65]

That case full of Juices Bob has is pretty sweet

[J-sews]

Wow, another great old thread.  
Yes so after 4 years, two moves, and many miles, I just now dug my Juice kit out of the crate it's been packed away in. Here are a few more pictures of the translucent Kf4. The plastic scales are a bit thicker than the standard aluminum scales (not surprisingly) but they are smooth and have nicely rounded edges. The scales have the words LEATHERMAN and JUICE molded into them, but not the "Kf4" model number or the inch and metric scales like a normal Kf4 has.












Which leads me to believe there are other translucent Juice tools out there.  With no model number, the same plastic injection mold used to make these scales could be used to make other scales in other colors. Molds are not cheap or easy to produce. If they went through the trouble to build the mold, surely they produced more than one set of scales with it...?

[Poncho65]

Those are lovely Bob

You are right surely there are more out there Wonder what caused them not to go ahead and mass produce the plastic scales along with the aluminum ones

[J-sews]

Those are lovely Bob

You are right surely there are more out there Wonder what caused them not to go ahead and mass produce the plastic scales along with the aluminum ones

Good question!   I have one idea though. It seems like it would be really easy for oil and crud to rub off the blades, come through the skeletonized frame, and get stuck on the backside of the see-through scales. In use, I bet in no time at all you would start to have yucky gack visible under the scales, and it would be almost impossible to clean. Kinda like what happens with the translucent-scale Micras.


Yah, I bet that's it.

[Poncho65]

Those are lovely Bob

You are right surely there are more out there Wonder what caused them not to go ahead and mass produce the plastic scales along with the aluminum ones

Good question!   I have one idea though. It seems like it would be really easy for oil and crud to rub off the blades, come through the skeletonized frame, and get stuck on the backside of the see-through scales. In use, I bet in no time at all you would start to have yucky gack visible under the scales, and it would be almost impossible to clean. Kinda like what happens with the translucent-scale Micras.


Yah, I bet that's it.

Yes that sounds very reasonable Bob nobody would want a bunch of gunk in there if you could see it Still makes you wonder  Why they didn't make them non see through with plastic handles They might have saw that as to close to a SAK perhaps The world may never know

[strmliner]

Great thread and even better information...thanks JSews and all the rest that have contributed to this one over a 7 year period!   

It made me get my Juices out and learn a bit more about them.  All have the 2/3 spring configuration.  The S2 and KF4 have 1001 date codes, while the XE6 has a 1011 code.

Appreciate the information! 

[Outback in Idaho]

  0801