New Bike

[Abstraction]

Hey guys, i've got £650 to spend on a new bike from evans (has to be evans unfortuanately - cycle to work scheme) and was looking at this.

I've got 3 miles of footpaths and muddy roads followed by just under 9 miles on roads, a good fit do you think or should i look at something else? Not riden a bike for almost 10 years so not really clued up on technical specs!

[Zed]

how about this, ive had a few cannondale's and all been great, nice spec on that for the price as well,  only thin i would upgrade in the end is the brakes but they would do fine,

paul

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/cannondale/trail-sl-5-2010-mountain-bike-ec020208

[ryan1835]

pinnacle peak s are quite good i have to do a bit off off roading and cycle pathing to get to work

[Abstraction]

how about this, ive had a few cannondale's and all been great, nice spec on that for the price as well,  only thin i would upgrade in the end is the brakes but they would do fine,

paul

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/cannondale/trail-sl-5-2010-mountain-bike-ec020208

Looks nice but the problem with that bike is the tyres and gearing are made for off road and i've been warned that i'll get really annoyed riding that those for too long on roads as they're just so slow and heavy with slower gearing than a hybrid like the specialized.  I tried out a few of the canondale big boy series and didn't like the smaller tyres on those either, though a workmate has been pushing me towards cannondale as well so there must definitely be something good to the brand! 

[Abstraction]

pinnacle peak s are quite good i have to do a bit off off roading and cycle pathing to get to work

I was looking at this from pinnacle

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/pinnacle/borealis-40-2010-hybrid-bike-ec021936

But wasn't sure if it would handle the regular off road riding and whether i'd be comfortable riding it there. The peak i wasn't sure about for the same reasons as the cannondale, not sure how it would perform on the road!

[ryan1835]

its alright one the road i ride the 1.0 to work each day which is ,mainly a cycle path but its still tarmac. its just not as quick as a road bike obviously, with the right tyre im sure it would be a great choice

[glorn]

Hey guys, i've got £650 to spend on a new bike from evans (has to be evans unfortuanately - cycle to work scheme) and was looking at this.

I've got 3 miles of footpaths and muddy roads followed by just under 9 miles on roads, a good fit do you think or should i look at something else? Not riden a bike for almost 10 years so not really clued up on technical specs!

Let's break this down and look at it this from a practical stand point:

3 miles of footpaths and muddy roads - this sounds almost like Paris-Roubaix.. or cyclocross. Footpaths and muddy roads do not require suspension. In fact, suspension would be just extra weight to pedal along. They also do not require big heavy knobby tires for much the same reason.


9 miles on roads - for the bulk of the trip you will want a true road bike. Three times as much distance on roads as off says it all to me. A mountain bike or mountain based "hybrid" bike would be a pain to ride for 3/4 of your trip. Buzzing knobby tires on pavement creating drag... low pressure rolling resistance... and the technical trail riding position making your butt hurt... suspension that isn't needed.. etc.


You need a bike that is 3/4 road bike and 1/4 cyclocross bike. You want something with 700 x 35 tires (possibly with a little bit of knobby), full fenders, a headlight, strong wheels (32-36 spokes 3 crossed on solid touring hubs), a triple chainring in case these foot paths have any climbs, and attachment points for a rack so you can carry your stuff.

Flat bars would be a good idea on the trail, and they would be fine on the road (not as aero as drop bars, but you needn't worry about that now). Disc brakes would be good too, but are not truly necessary. Full sized V brakes or proper canti brakes would be just fine.

In some cases, disc brakes can interfere with mounting fenders and racks, so keep that in mind.


The Pinnacle looks nice, but it has a few problems..

1) it has a carbon fork. This is rather silly for this sort of bike, and I wouldn't ride carbon up front on a commuter, especially one that sees some trails. Go with a steel fork.

2) Mini V brakes.. can't fit fenders under these. Not fenders worth having anyway, and not the sort of fenders one needs for a bike that is going to take you to work on "muddy roads".


Now... on to some bikes:

The Treks seem to be the best deals out there! And they should all have mounts for racks and fenders.

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/trek/71-fx-2010-hybrid-bike-ec016501

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/trek/t30-2009-hybrid-bike-ec001494

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/trek/73-fx-2010-hybrid-bike-ec016510

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/trek/7500-2009-hybrid-bike-ec016516


And these Konas are hot..  but you may have the rack and fender issues... maybe. You'd have to look up reviews of these models online.


http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/dew-deluxe-2009-hybrid-bike-ec017270

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/dr-dew-2009-hybrid-bike-ec017272



And do remember that you will not want to spend the whole lot on the bike itself. You'll need a lot of accessories to go with it.

Helmet
Gloves
Pump (two actually.. one for the garage with a pressure gauge, and one for the bike itself so you aren't walking 6 miles home).
Spare tube
Rack
Fenders
headlight
Panniers (perhaps)
A better saddle (perhaps)
Better pedals (perhaps)
Water bottle
Patch kit
Bike multitool
red flashy light
bell (yes, you need one on a commuter bike. Get an "Incredibell")
cyclist's rain jacket (unlike a regular rain jacket, it covers your lower back.. which is exposed when leaning forward on a bike)


Hope this helps!

Go with a Trek and buy all the gear to go with it. You'll be happy and dry instead of broken down and soaked to the skin.



G.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I'm with Glorn on this

How about one of these, then you've the best of both worlds

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/tricross-2010-cyclo-cross-bike-ec020084

[Zed]

how about this, ive had a few cannondale's and all been great, nice spec on that for the price as well,  only thin i would upgrade in the end is the brakes but they would do fine,

paul

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/cannondale/trail-sl-5-2010-mountain-bike-ec020208

Looks nice but the problem with that bike is the tyres and gearing are made for off road and i've been warned that i'll get really annoyed riding that those for too long on roads as they're just so slow and heavy with slower gearing than a hybrid like the specialized.  I tried out a few of the canondale big boy series and didn't like the smaller tyres on those either, though a workmate has been pushing me towards cannondale as well so there must definitely be something good to the brand! 

the problem is i use a road bike for the roads and a mountain bike off road, But i use my MTB as much on roads as off, after all these years of cycling ive fiddled with gearing no end and TBh spinning a gear is ok and using the higher gears on a MTB on tarmac is ok, its when people use the very low gears on MTB that you over spin, but there are a lot of hybrids out there, for me though i would rather stick slicks on a MTB and possibly fit a bigger outer chainring ,

paul

[Abstraction]

I've been recommended cyclo-cross bikes by someone else but i checked out this raleigh when i was in the store and found the riding position and handlebars rather daunting, i just didn't seem to sit naturally compared to the hybrids i tried, although that's probably just where I'm not used to it.  I've also been warned that i might find non-flat handlebars a bit tough to use off road given the fact i've not riden in yonks and when i did it was an old heavy mountain bike.

As for the budget, I should have said i had more left over for things like that    I've got £850 total so roughly split it £650 for a bike and £200 for accessories like locks etc which I figure should be enough, and of course there's budget for a bike multi in there - what do you think my next thread was going to be about once i'd decided on a bike 

Thanks a lot for the very informative post Glorn, much appreciated!!  I've looked at all of the options there, but tbh as i don't have the first clue about individual components or brand names they seem pretty similar to me!  I think that's probably what drew me to the Crosstrail, i could easily 'see' that the tires were meant for the best of both world, that it had lockable suspension so it could work on different surfaces and that going for the comp version would be a benefit with disc brakes, but away from that everything is pretty samey in the hybrid category!

The danger of course though is that i'll see things and assume they're an improvement when they're not though, like it seems i've done with the suspension. I assumed locking suspension would be a real boon on the bumpy parts of my journey but you're not the first person to say it's completely unnecessary weight! How much difference does the weight make though, compared to the different tyres for example?  I don't tend to travel light (I carry a fairly bulky backpack with me) so doubt i'll be the fastest rider in the world regardless but is 3kg going to make a noticeable difference to my pace over 12 miles?  I think i should add that the footpaths and muddy roads are in pretty poor shape, lots of potholes, nasty slops to them at moments and not what i'd look at and think it would be ideal for thin tires, but you're totally right about the majority of it being on road which is why i was sticking to looking at hybrid style bikes rather than mountain bikes.

I'll make sure to try some Trek bikes out when i go in on Tuesday though, see if i feel any of them

[Zed]

  I think mike knows my cyclo cross love, i didnt think about this kind of bike as generally pretty specialized, but a great choice and the Raleigh looks spot on , the only thing you might find is it will have a harsh ride as alloy is very stiff and not a problem on a cyclo cross bike as ridden for lightness and ease of carry, but would be my first choice especial in Titanium  but would cost a bomb 

paul

[glorn]

I own aluminum, titanium, and steel frames... I have ridden them all extensively over the years.

I can honestly say that the "aluminum is harsh" tale is a bunch of hooey. So is the "ti is noodly" and the "steel fatigues and goes soft after a long time on the road".

A well made frame makes the most out of the material it was designed for. It depends on geometry, tubing diameter, tube wall thickness... etc...

And tires make or break a bikes "smoothness" more than anything else other than frame and fork geometry.


If it is designed properly, any frame material will "feel" just fine. The rest is all in one's head. The smoothest bike I have ever ridden was a Cannondale.




G.

[Zed]

I own aluminum, titanium, and steel frames... I have ridden them all extensively over the years.

I can honestly say that the "aluminum is harsh" tale is a bunch of hooey. So is the "ti is noodly" and the "steel fatigues and goes soft after a long time on the road".

A well made frame makes the most out of the material it was designed for. It depends on geometry, tubing diameter, tube wall thickness... etc...

And tires make or break a bikes "smoothness" more than anything else other than frame and fork geometry.


If it is designed properly, any frame material will "feel" just fine. The rest is all in one's head. The smoothest bike I have ever ridden was a Cannondale.




G.

i liked steel as a touring bike as easy to fix in the middle of nowhere, ali and Ti being harder if not impossible to fix, ive found over these years that different material is good foe certain cycling, track racing i liked ali as very stiff for sprinting, i had carbon fiber but found at that time it stiff in the seat and back end and flexy in the bottom bracket,for mountain biking i had ali full suspension as stiffness not a issue , for bmx racing i pretty much always had 4130 as reliable, i used a few ali frames but was always waiting for them to crack, they didnt though,cheap ali frames i fing still tend to be heavy and stiff  again you get what you pay for, i always found cannondales a great ride, but nothing compares to a few custom steel road and track bikes i rode in the early 90's.

ok Ti is out as cost to much and not needed,

steel is good if good quality , i found tange prestige great for MTB'ing
ali well 7005 is ok, 6061 is ok, there is so many ali frames around now there all pretty much alike but get a lot better with price, but yes a harsher ride,

for me its steel,  plus last longer,   

[glorn]

On the potholes, suspension might be nice. But the best way to ride a commuter bike is to do all that you can to avoid technical terrain.

Why?

Well, you see... a commuter bike presumes you are on the way to work or on the way home. Therefore, you do not have the luxury of risking a break down due to riding anything remotely hardcore. This bike needs to be reliable before all else, and your riding needs to be quick and conservative. Turning your front wheel into a taco on the way to work because you rode a suspension equipped hybrid over a pothole is not in line with that mindset.

A commuter bike and the rider must be cautious and alert. You avoid obstacles that could injure you or damage your bike. You ride a bike that is the most practical for the trip that you can possibly find.

Save aggressive riding for the weekends when you can afford to break down because you took a proper MTB over some rocks.


Is a shock all that heavy? No, modern shocks in and of themselves are not that heavy. But... the weight is right up front, attached to your steerer. Even with a lock out, this is going to give you a sluggish front end on the road. Also, most suspension forks have fairly slack angles, whereas road forks are usually a bit more steep. Steeper equals quicker turning. Not so steep that you are all twitchy like a track bike, but steep enough that you can flick the bike hard left and avoid being crushed by a lorry, yeah?

The last thing I want on my bike on the road is sluggishness. I have enough of that in my person.

Big tires will help you cope with the trails. Like 700 x 38 if they will fit. And they do make tires that are make for road and trail. You might not find the perfect bike off the shelf. It will likely be a compromise, and you will change out the tires, seat, etc.


Yes, I do think you should avoid drop bars for now. Find a bike with a flat bar or mustache bars.

As for components... better to invest in the frame and wheels. Components can be changed out as they wear out. For you right now, anything from Shimano or Suntour or Diacompe or Tektro  or SRAM will be fine. Bontrager, Ritchey, Aheadset (or Cane Creek), these are all good too.

This is a commuter bike, so exotic components are not what you want anyway. You want tough, durable, reliable, and cheap to replace. Most of the high end components are merely lighter. They use less material, and are often short lived. You want good components, not race kit.


Your frameset, wheels, and tires are where you really want to put your money. 

[Abstraction]

On the potholes, suspension might be nice. But the best way to ride a commuter bike is to do all that you can to avoid technical terrain.

Why?

Well, you see... a commuter bike presumes you are on the way to work or on the way home. Therefore, you do not have the luxury of risking a break down due to riding anything remotely hardcore. This bike needs to be reliable before all else, and your riding needs to be quick and conservative. Turning your front wheel into a taco on the way to work because you rode a suspension equipped hybrid over a pothole is not in line with that mindset.

A commuter bike and the rider must be cautious and alert. You avoid obstacles that could injure you or damage your bike. You ride a bike that is the most practical for the trip that you can possibly find.

Save aggressive riding for the weekends when you can afford to break down because you took a proper MTB over some rocks.


Is a shock all that heavy? No, modern shocks in and of themselves are not that heavy. But... the weight is right up front, attached to your steerer. Even with a lock out, this is going to give you a sluggish front end on the road. Also, most suspension forks have fairly slack angles, whereas road forks are usually a bit more steep. Steeper equals quicker turning. Not so steep that you are all twitchy like a track bike, but steep enough that you can flick the bike hard left and avoid being crushed by a lorry, yeah?

The last thing I want on my bike on the road is sluggishness. I have enough of that in my person.

Big tires will help you cope with the trails. Like 700 x 38 if they will fit. And they do make tires that are make for road and trail. You might not find the perfect bike off the shelf. It will likely be a compromise, and you will change out the tires, seat, etc.


Yes, I do think you should avoid drop bars for now. Find a bike with a flat bar or mustache bars.

As for components... better to invest in the frame and wheels. Components can be changed out as they wear out. For you right now, anything from Shimano or Suntour or Diacompe or Tektro  or SRAM will be fine. Bontrager, Ritchey, Aheadset (or Cane Creek), these are all good too.

This is a commuter bike, so exotic components are not what you want anyway. You want tough, durable, reliable, and cheap to replace. Most of the high end components are merely lighter. They use less material, and are often short lived. You want good components, not race kit.


Your frameset, wheels, and tires are where you really want to put your money. 

Great stuff So what is it about the suspension on this Trek you recommended that would make it more suitable than the crosstrial in terms of reliability?  Though they are out of stock of that particular one though, as well as the 2010 version anyway 

Also this Kona you mentioned has the same tires as the Crosstrail, so is the only advantage the fact it has no suspension and is therefore lighter or am i missing something?


So compared to the crosstrial would you say one of these
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/sirrus-elite-2010-hybrid-bike-ec020016
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/dew-deluxe-2010-hybrid-bike-ec021772

would be a better fit? Looking through the Trek options i can't really pick one that isn't discontinued and which really grabs my attention

I remember looking at this one in store and it was lovely, but the assistant said that riding it down a bumpy path every day would be folly, as it was really not designed for anything other than road use, and this one looks much better but like a lot of the treks is out of stock.  Also the problem with Trek bikes is they are ship to store only and getting it home from london would be tricky, as I can't take the bike on national rail during rush hour which is the only time i'd be able to pick it up unless i took the day off work just to go get it.