Anyone want to play SwissTool vs Charge?

[turnsouth]

So I've been trying to decide which tool to EDC in my man-bag, and I keep swinging back and forth between the Swisstool and the Charge AL. I've been carrying the Wave, but want to move up to something that looks a little less utilitarian, more to a tool that people say "That's nice " when they see it.

When I say "swinging back and forth" I really mean that at one moment I will absolutely make up my mind which one it will be, and then the next day think of a reason for the other one. It's exasperating. I've gone as far as making a chart that contrasts the pro's and con's of each tool. And not a rudimentary one mind you, but one endlessly categorized by things like tool use, implement use, possible scenarios, maintenance, etc...

I had thought about compiling the chart and presenting it here for opinions, just to give everyone an insight into how my warped mind thinks things through, but then I thought "How about a contest?"

So here are the rules:

• The tools are limited to the Victorinox SwissTool (in any of the three varieties: standard, X, or RS), or the Leatherman Charge AL
• Contest will run in point-counterpoint format. If you make an argument for a pro (or a con) for one of the tools I (or anyone else) can and is encouraged to counter it or comment on it.
• In order to play, and in keeping with the philosophy of MT.O you must agree to not take offence with anything anyone says. I'm looking for real arguments, but this isn't to say that some things cannot be said, anything is allowed (again, in keeping with MT.O rules), whether it be humor, biting sarcasm, rants, serious discussion, etc...
• At the end of the contest I will pick a winner of a yet to be determined award. I have a few things in mind for this award, not saying what, but you can expect the postman to be dropping off a package from the MT.O store at your home if you win.
• The contest will run for an undetermined length of time, but probably not more then a couple of weeks. It all depends on the responses. The winner will be chosen subjectively by me based on what I consider the best comment.

So let's have at it. Anyone have an opinion on which one I should carry?

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'll play!

The SwissTool has more functions, so as a backup/emergency tool it might be your best choice.

Def

[Chako]

I will bite, and do a counter point.

If you are in a wet environment, or think you will be, the Charge is your champion. The Swisstool's biggest failing is the super beautiful polished finish that will ensure a slippery experience. I don't like having to fumble with a tool when I need it.

[Raukodur]

all outside opening tools on the swisstool more convenient than the 'some outside, some inside' config of the charge, also allows the swisstool to fit in more tools.

[turnsouth]

I'll play!

The SwissTool has more functions, so as a backup/emergency tool it might be your best choice.

Def

Something I have considered, but then that begs a second question: Should I always take into consideration the chance that the tool I'm carrying might be they only tool that I will have if the SHTF? I do prepare, and I keep a well equipped bag in my trunk all the time, but how much do I really need on my person?

[Dunc]

Swisstool - Awl

[Dunc]

Swisstool - Chisel

[5hif7y]

im gonna have to say swiss tool. for looks size and performance. the charge is amazing but if its in your bag go for the biggest and most feature packed.

good pros are:

• the screw drivers have a good length to them
• the plier head is a bit bigger there for stronger
• everything accessible from the outside makes for a quick tool

i like the idea of this topic. we need more heated discussion like this, they make for a interesting read. 

[turnsouth]

I will bite, and do a counter point.

If you are in a wet environment, or think you will be, the Charge is your champion. The Swisstool's biggest failing is the super beautiful polished finish that will ensure a slippery experience. I don't like having to fumble with a tool when I need it.

Something I've been able to overcome. After a a high temperature , high pressure wash in my heavily calcified water, it has taken the mirror shine off of the tool, and while still quite shiny and attractive, it has made it quite grippy, even when wet.

[turnsouth]

Swisstool - Chisel

Overcome by a few minutes of stone work on the Charges pry-bar

[turnsouth]

Swisstool - Awl

Requires an extra bit, but with a little time you can even have a threadable awl for the Charge

[turnsouth]

all outside opening tools on the swisstool more convenient than the 'some outside, some inside' config of the charge, also allows the swisstool to fit in more tools.

True, but everything is two handed...

[turnsouth]

...the plier head is a bit bigger there for stronger...

Yea, but you loose the capabilities of the Charge's needle-nose.

[Carlos]

(note: this might contain some redundancy as there have been more than 9 replies since I started to write this!)

"Anyone have an opinion on which one I should carry?" SwissTool. 

What I like on the charge al:
- looks
- single hand blades deploy
- light weight
- strong main blade

What I like on the swisstool:
- all tools available outside
- precise locks and opening system (you can open a single tool without pulling the others too)

What I don't like on charge al:
- bad and small scissors
- no awl
- a somehow useless small bit driver

What I don't like on the swisstool:
- no hole on the awl
- low grip philips heads
- no pocket clip available

Things people often complain which, imo, aren't justified:
- slippery of swisstools: you can cover the handles with strips of fabric duct tape. It's easily removable and/or replaceable, gives grip to the tool, and it even helps to protect the handles.

[Beerplumber]

The swisstool fits my "multi-philosophy" that a Multitool has implements to use instead of abusing a knife blade. I want to carry something that can: poke, prod, cut everything from steel/wood to an ad in the news paper, shave, turn a screw, pry, scrape, slice and puncture. I carry a spirit so given any unpredictable situation I have an implement to use instead of using JUST a knife blade. At the end of the day for a last resort the swisstools load out makes it superior for me. No it's not a "keep in pocket-quickly flick out to cut a box tool" (which a charge can be) the swisstool is a "I need a pokey-scrapey-prying-thingy thank J-sews I have one in my bag tool."


Stay multi my friends

[Raukodur]

When it comes down to it for me, if I wanted to go for looks and one handed opening blades, it would be the Charge, if I want to go for the number of functions, and beefiness of tool, it would be the swisstool.

[82brutus]

Things people often complain which, imo, aren't justified:
- slippery of swisstools: you can cover the handles with strips of fabric duct tape. It's easily removable and/or replaceable, gives grip to the tool, and it even helps to protect the handles.

Two other options here are to get a BO ST which is just or I've also had decent success with a coating of truck bed liner sprayed on the handles to provide a little extra grip. 


Sent from my phone somewhere in the house.

[turnsouth]

...if I wanted to go for looks...it would be the Charge

I think they are both attractive in different ways, and either of them are eye catching:




Image copyright edcgear

[Styerman]

Pre Spirit ( the only plier base Multi I still EDC ) , the Swisstool was a "Bag Tool " , the Charge was an "EDC Tool " . To me heavy /large multi's ( cept the MUT ) , just aren't worth the weight penalty .

F/F and implement quality is higher on the Swisstool .

Not really an apples and apples comparison , as one is a medium weight , t'other is a heveyweight .

Chris

[scrappy]

The charge its very beefy. I cut three strands of hard wire with it. It has a wow factor and in an emergency it is the better tool for me because of the one handed blades and bit driver. I get people asking for all types of drivers and I am the only one in the building with them because I have the but kit on me

[David]

I have no love for the SwissTool. So my answer is Charge.

[Grant Lamontagne]

No love for the SwissTool?  That's just weird! 

There is a third option- you could go for teh Charge as it's lighter, OH blades and so on, but add a Victorinox ratchet to the sheath.  The extra weight would be negligeable but it would allow you to use the ratchet in conjunction with the Charge's screwdrivers or pliers (depending on your needs) as well as allowing you to use standard 1/4" bits.

And I'd keep the SwissTool handy as well, because let's face it, some jobs are just too bloody big for a Charge!

Def

[AimlessWanderer]

I have both a Charge AL and a Swisstool CS Plus. The Swisstool has lived in my bag since I've had it, and the AL is heir to that throne. The AL is also occasionally the tool I'll grab if I'm at home. I find the Swisstool suits me better for the following reasons:

Chisel AND Pry tool: I have modified door mortices with the chisel, and have pried things with the crate opener that I would not have felt comfortable prying with the AL flat driver. If the flat driver is chisel ground, it could take away from it's abilities as a light pry.
Scissors: Far better on the Swisstool.
File: The LM File is awsome, no doubt about it, but when comparing these two tools as metal files you have one which will file anything irrespective how hard it is, and the other will file softer steels and metals, but more aggressively. I feel the ST suits me better on this
Drivers: The ST has great drivers and for me have more capability in respect of driver length, size range, high torque or limited access via the Allen key style wrench (proved invaluable several times). Compatability with standard 6mm hex bits in the same sheath ... no need to carry standard bits seperately. LM's proprietary bits are very good I'm sure - but I do like the fact the ST uses standard bits
Awl: There permanently. Yes an awl bit could be made for the charge - but the ST has an excellent one all ready to go
Seperate Can and Bottle Openers; No compromise with combo tools
All tools outboard: Possibly as a result of carrying the ST and using it for so long, any tools which don't have fully outboard tools now (to me) make my life harder than it needs to be. The same arguement could be made in reverse for people who do not carry a dedicated OHO folding knife and rely on that of the Charge.
Corkscrew: Yes, the ST has saved the day many times in this respect, AND the included eyeglasses driver is easier to use than the one on the Charge when repairing specs

Years of experience have proved to me that I have made the right choice, and there have been very few occasions that I have wished I had a Wave/Charge instead. From what I can recall that has only been due to the fact a diamond file may have made things slightly easier.

All these comments are however subjective, and there are factors which could make me change my mind. These are predominantly environmental factors but may have a bearing dependent on how and when you will find the need to reach for the man bag rather than the pocket/belt. I have used the Swisstool in both engineering and marine environments, but only occasionally. In the event that either of these is to be done with any regularity a charge may offer better grip purely due to the exterior not being of uniform contour/profile (ignore high polish - I find the contour makes a greater difference).

The high level of precision engineering on the ST also in my mind doesn't lend itself to really dirty environments. I use a wave as my work tool, as I feel more comfortable exposing that to high levels of grime and particles which could gum up the ST. For me the LM is nearer the AK47 approach of being resistant to damage - the fit and finish of the LM is not sloppy - but neither is it as precise as the ST. The Charge can also be stripped down and cleaned out if necessary, not so with the ST

If working at height the Charge would without doubt be the tool to go for. Anywhere that dropping the tool would potentially lead to loss or damage (height or near water etc), or present a hazard to people/items below, the ST falls down due to lack of effective attachment point. Tied tools in any environment is down to the Charge and the Cherge alone.

Have to leave your bag and walk away from it with the tool? The Charges clip is a strong point there too, unless you're happy a real hefty sheath on your belt.

The Swisstool works for me in my life as it is today. Anyone who tells me I have made the wrong choice is talking out of the wrong orifice because they do not know my life needs - just as we do not know yours. If you want a great tool predominantly for cleaner environments, capable of dealing with a huge array of situations without knowing in advance what they may be - I would recommend the ST. If it's at height, where dropping the tool could cause loss or injury, in predominantly dirty environments, without a dedicated OHO folder (Charge is OHO, but is also more liable to chip out on you), or where you need to leave your bag for any time/distance - I'd recommend the Charge

From a looks perspective - everyone is going to prefer something different to that point is moot.

Hope there's something in here that helps mate 

[turnsouth]

The size and weight differences don't concern me as far as carry, it's going to be in my shoulder bag, and I won't be able to tell the difference. The only consideration of the size and weight of the tools will be in the actual handling during use.

As far as bits go, if I carry the Charge I'll be also carrying the bit kit and extender, and with the SwissTool the Vic driver and bits.

[Chako]

Maybe I am the only one like this, but I tend to be a bit laid back on such things. Why go with one or the other. Why not just rotate at will and have fun with it. Both are excellent tools. I don't see why you would want to just use one.

If it was me, i would wear the one that takes my fancy and wear it until it can't do the job I need it to, or just flip them around at your whim. Mind you, this is coming from a guy who wears a Knifeless Fuse and has found everything about the tool to be fantastic. The scissors are great for all my cutting needs and I don't miss a knife blade either.

As for the slippery finish on the Swisstool, it is my only negative on an otherwise phenomenal design. Is it valid, you bet. I once dropped it twice while fixing a small plumbing job as I didn't have the right tools at hand, and the Swisstool was a lot handier as it was hanging off my belt. You can mod anything and improve it to your specs of course...but I think the comment is still a valid one.

EDIT: I just got an idea. Why not pack both in your pack if you got the space. Having an extra set of pliers can be handy depending on the job.

[turnsouth]

Hope there's something in here that helps mate 

All good stuff Al, but...

If working at height the Charge would without doubt be the tool to go for.

Image copyright Dunc

[AimlessWanderer]

Hope there's something in here that helps mate 

All good stuff Al, but...

If working at height the Charge would without doubt be the tool to go for.

(Image removed from quote.)
Image copyright Dunc

Personally I find it very awkward to use like that - but point taken 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Yes, the lack of a decent tie off point on the Swisstool can be a major drawback.  I'm not thrilled about that myself either.

Def

[algernonramone]

The Charge does have the 154CM blade, so that's a point in its favor.

[turnsouth]

EDIT: I just got an idea. Why not pack both in your pack if you got the space. Having an extra set of pliers can be handy depending on the job.

I have entertained the idea, it's just that I'm trying to keep my bag as lightweight and unstuffed as possible, also eliminating all redundancy. I'm constantly reevaluating, and asking myself if what I'm carrying should really be in my car bag. I've found that it has turned carrying a man-bag from a obsessive chore into a handy pleasure. I know that the idea of carrying the larger/heaver SwissTool goes against part of this philosophy, but I'm willing to gain a couple of ounces if the ST will be the better option.