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Author Topic: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)  (Read 2343 times)

Offline Zed

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Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« on: December 10, 2012, 02:34:37 PM »
Ive tired to carry a set up that is uk legal and although i would prefer my blade on my ppp ive read that because the handles closed acts as a kind of lock (a rather flimsy lock lol) i removed it a while back and fitted a wood saw and replaced sogs crap file for a cheapy one i had lying around that is actually better, so my problem is the Awl  :think: would the police if they asked to see my sog think or say the awl is a blade ? thanks for any advice with this and then if i replace it what could i fit  :think:

my trusty edc ppp  :tu:


Paul,

Offline sawman

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 02:44:43 PM »
The real question is do you want to argue it with the bobbie headed mother smurfers.  They could claim it's a blade and that you're an assassin then you find yourself in an interrogation room grilled on who you planned to assassinate for hours until you confess to some kidnapping just to get them to shut up and let you sleep.
SAW

Offline Zed

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 02:47:33 PM »
The real question is do you want to argue it with the bobbie headed mother smurfers.  They could claim it's a blade and that you're an assassin then you find yourself in an interrogation room grilled on who you planned to assassinate for hours until you confess to some kidnapping just to get them to shut up and let you sleep.

 :rofl: although very true Steve sadly,I can see another spacer in my ppp's handle  :-\
Paul,

Offline 50ft-trad

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 02:53:48 PM »
With something like that it's all going to boil down to how and where it's discovered, whether the officer/s involved are a complete arse or not, what your attitude is like, and how their shift is going  ::)

Technically it's a sharp thing that won't freely fold into the handle of the tool, which could cause legal issues - realistically though I really can't see it being a problem. Obviously that's not "advice", just that I personally wouldn't be worrying about it. If I felt the day recquired a PPP over a P4 Squirt (trying to use your tools as an example), I personally wouldn't be too concerned the tool has an awl. I'd imagine most coppers would respond well to you telling them you put together a tool that's knifeless so it wouldn't cause problems and offend people ... and that'd probably be the end of it

We're way too deep into the grey zone to be specific in my opinion, and we're almost certainly over analysing it at this level. The law was written in such a way as to allow coppers to use common sense. Whether they are willing and able to do so depends on the individual.

Offline Zed

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 03:00:08 PM »
Cheers Al  :tu: i wouldn't miss it as the p4 has a small awl and so does my tinker but over than nodding the awl into something else  :think: I think it will stay  :tu:
Paul,

Offline Essexman

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 03:08:07 PM »
Ive tired to carry a set up that is uk legal and although i would prefer my blade on my ppp ive read that because the handles closed acts as a kind of lock (a rather flimsy lock lol) i removed it a while back and fitted a wood saw and replaced sogs crap file for a cheapy one i had lying around that is actually better, so my problem is the Awl  :think: would the police if they asked to see my sog think or say the awl is a blade ? thanks for any advice with this and then if i replace it what could i fit  :think:




You've kinda got the wrong end of the legal stick me thinks. I don't think it's because the closed handles act as a sort of lock, I would say the reason is that the blade can't be readily folded as required to be defined as a "penkinfe" or UK legal EDC.

"For a knife to be a folding pocket-knife within the meaning of this section, it must be readily and immediately foldable at all times, simply by the folding process"

If you think this is correct, then the same would apply to the awl.

For me, I wouldn't be worried. Never been stopped and searched. If I was with the above MT I'm sure the PC wouldn't pick up on the awl being a blade etc.

But each to thier own, if you are not happy, then take it out..............



 :D

Offline Zed

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2012, 04:32:28 PM »
Ive tired to carry a set up that is uk legal and although i would prefer my blade on my ppp ive read that because the handles closed acts as a kind of lock (a rather flimsy lock lol) i removed it a while back and fitted a wood saw and replaced sogs crap file for a cheapy one i had lying around that is actually better, so my problem is the Awl  :think: would the police if they asked to see my sog think or say the awl is a blade ? thanks for any advice with this and then if i replace it what could i fit  :think:




You've kinda got the wrong end of the legal stick me thinks. I don't think it's because the closed handles act as a sort of lock, I would say the reason is that the blade can't be readily folded as required to be defined as a "penkinfe" or UK legal EDC.

"For a knife to be a folding pocket-knife within the meaning of this section, it must be readily and immediately foldable at all times, simply by the folding process"

If you think this is correct, then the same would apply to the awl.

For me, I wouldn't be worried. Never been stopped and searched. If I was with the above MT I'm sure the PC wouldn't pick up on the awl being a blade etc.

But each to thier own, if you are not happy, then take it out..............



 :D


 :rofl:  that pic is funny  :D no its going to stay,the reason im thinking about it more is because when clipped to my pocket you can see it sticking out so someone might take it as a knife  :-\ although being the winter its not as visable due to coat , im goint o just leave it for now untill i find a tool that is more handy and fits , possibly a 1/4 bit drive for the sog  :tu:
Paul,

Offline tosh

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 04:39:22 PM »
The law was written in such a way as to allow coppers to use common sense. Whether they are willing and able to do so depends on the individual.



Err..

Common sense and coppers... :think:

I never knew there was a connection   :rofl:
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Offline enki_ck

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2012, 04:42:52 PM »
The bit driver is two layered though.

Offline Zed

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2012, 05:00:07 PM »
 :D

i have got a bit drive on my powerlock so could try it but might need to remove another tool,
Paul,

Offline dks

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2012, 05:21:55 PM »
So.... does the toothpick on a SAK count as a fixed Blade??

It is sharp, hard, does not fold....

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Offline Essexman

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2012, 05:26:15 PM »
So.... does the toothpick on a SAK count as a fixed Blade??

It is sharp, hard, does not fold....

In Cyprus maybe?  But we're talking about UK law. 

 :D

Offline dks

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 05:29:20 PM »
So.... does the toothpick on a SAK count as a fixed Blade??

It is sharp, hard, does not fold....

In Cyprus maybe?  But we're talking about UK law. 

 :D

Surprisingly(?), with Cyprus being a UK colony until 1960, most of the Basic legislation is identical.. though there is a lot less knife fear here, so far.
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Offline tattoosteve99

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Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 05:50:06 PM »
I think it would really depend on the circumstance, and the officer in question. Similar things have happened to me, although the law is different here. Ive been stopped numerous times, minor traffic, and they always ask "do you have any weapons" I always answer "yes, I have knives". Then they want to see them. So I show them to the officers. Most just smile and give them back, only one had a hard time with the number I carry on me, usually 5-6, lol. They even look at my auto, illegal to carry here, and say"nice knife" before handing it back.

Offline Essexman

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2012, 06:30:17 PM »
The law was written in such a way as to allow coppers to use common sense. Whether they are willing and able to do so depends on the individual.



Err..

Common sense and coppers... :think:

I never knew there was a connection   :rofl:

Let's not knock the police force/service. After all remember they don't make the laws, they are there to uphold the laws.

Also keep in mind, after weeks of training they are put on the street and can not be expected to know and understand the fine detailed points of the many thousands of laws in the UK straight away.

Offline tosh

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2012, 06:46:40 PM »
The law was written in such a way as to allow coppers to use common sense. Whether they are willing and able to do so depends on the individual.



Err..

Common sense and coppers... :think:

I never knew there was a connection   :rofl:

Let's not knock the police force/service. After all remember they don't make the laws, they are there to uphold the laws.

Also keep in mind, after weeks of training they are put on the street and can not be expected to know and understand the fine detailed points of the many thousands of laws in the UK straight away.

It was written in humour.

My neighbour is an ex-police inspector, very old school, very sensible, very straight...spot on.

However, my few dealings with the younger police officers of today are not quite so favourable, most I hear are fresh out of Uni' without any real life experiances to call on, but suddenly young and with the full weight of the law behind them makes for a very cocky attitude. We need only see the ridiculous TV programmes here in the UK, the police wearing fashionable shades often seen antagonising those they pull for a show down of power - I suppose it makes good/exciting TV. But in general, this modern day conceited Plod has now lost an awful lot of respect here in the UK - but that's my view.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 06:52:59 PM by tosh »
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Offline MedusaOblongata

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2012, 01:33:41 PM »
The law was written in such a way as to allow coppers to use common sense. Whether they are willing and able to do so depends on the individual.
Actually, the law was written by buffoons with a complete lack of common sense, elected by a population for whom common sense is as common as elephant/unicorn hybrids riding the tube, and enforced with even less common sense. With regards to england and "offensive" weapons laws, common sense is nothing more than an oxymoron.

Offline 50ft-trad

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2012, 02:25:05 PM »
That's unnecessary, derogotary, insulting and incredibly narrow minded. Thank you for sharing your limited cognition with us  :salute:

Offline nuphoria

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2012, 03:04:31 PM »
I totally agree Al, and that's not something we tolerate here.
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Offline thesuper

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2012, 04:18:07 PM »
The law was written in such a way as to allow coppers to use common sense. Whether they are willing and able to do so depends on the individual.



Err..

Common sense and coppers... :think:

I never knew there was a connection   :rofl:

Let's not knock the police force/service. After all remember they don't make the laws, they are there to uphold the laws.

Also keep in mind, after weeks of training they are put on the street and can not be expected to know and understand the fine detailed points of the many thousands of laws in the UK straight away.

It was written in humour.

My neighbour is an ex-police inspector, very old school, very sensible, very straight...spot on.

However, my few dealings with the younger police officers of today are not quite so favourable, most I hear are fresh out of Uni' without any real life experiances to call on, but suddenly young and with the full weight of the law behind them makes for a very cocky attitude. We need only see the ridiculous TV programmes here in the UK, the police wearing fashionable shades often seen antagonising those they pull for a show down of power - I suppose it makes good/exciting TV. But in general, this modern day conceited Plod has now lost an awful lot of respect here in the UK - but that's my view.
My son is a police officer, fresh out of uni. he has been a full time copper for just over a year, although he did 4 years as a "special constable" (thats unpaid voluntary police officer) before that. His "beat" is the mean streets of central London, and believe me, he gets to use his discretion every day, usualy to the member of the publics favour. While he doesnt quite understand his fathers facination/addiction to multis etc, he sees them generaly as tools, not weapons. He spreads this knowledge with his less clued up colleauges, times they are a changing, but it takes time. Remember, multis havent been around that long, 10 to 15 yrs ago who really carried them regularly in public? Its not just the attitude of the copper who may stop you, your own attitude towards them at the time counts for a lot. While I wont stand for knocking coppers generaly, I know as you do that there is the odd exception out there, they're only human. I know this forum supports that, and the law, or I personaly wouldnt be here.
It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Offline 50ft-trad

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2012, 04:28:32 PM »
Thanks for getting us back on track mate  :tu: Good to hear your lad is putting a good word for all uss amiable nutters  :D

Offline thesuper

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 05:10:22 PM »
Thanks for getting us back on track mate  :tu: Good to hear your lad is putting a good word for all uss amiable nutters  :D
TBH thats how he generaly views me/us! He carries a Vic st spirit x on his duty belt I bought him a while back. He likes the practicality of it, he just doesnt get the collecting bit! Give it time! Many of his mates carry Gerbers.....theres no accounting for taste  ::)
It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Offline 50ft-trad

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 05:13:08 PM »
 :rofl:

Some of my favourite tools are Gerbers mate  :pok: :D .... but today I'm carrying a Spirit X too  ;) :D :D :D

Offline thesuper

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 05:50:19 PM »
I'm not really knocking Gerbers per-se, but out of the litteraly dozens of multis I own, I only have one Gerber, a suspension I think. Thought about getting a Diesel for a while, maybe one day. Gerbers dont really do it for me  :D
It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Offline 50ft-trad

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Re: Trying too keep uk legal but (AWL ?)
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2012, 05:53:16 PM »
I'm not really knocking Gerbers per-se, but out of the litteraly dozens of multis I own, I only have one Gerber, a suspension I think. Thought about getting a Diesel for a while, maybe one day. Gerbers dont really do it for me  :D

Hmmm ... Not necessarily their crowning glory that one  :P .........  :whistle:

 

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