My turn for some 111mm fun

[Syph007]

I've been curious about the 111mm size for awhile now, but I haven't taken any apart yet until now.

Here is my very first victim, a 111mm workchamp.



I warmed the scales gently with a hair dryer and they removed fine with zero damage.  I have an idea where that little spring landed but I havent found it yet. 



Pin sizes.  I am now wondering if the liner lock 111mm ones have the same pin sizes.



There are too many layers to get a pic of all in one, so here are 2 pics to show the layers.




It's kind of weird that most of the liners have that rectangle cut out for the scale slide lock, but I suppose they just reuse the same stamping dies.

Now I am waiting for some liner lock donors to come in to transplant the scissors and pliers layers into.   

[enki_ck]

Nice to see a slide lock one disassembled. I've only seen a small pic of the slide lock backspring but in that picture the backspring has a different design with a cut out as opposed to the hole we see here.

[Syph007]

Ya I had fun ripping that nicely priced UK found workchamp apart!

My first mod is going to be adding the pliers and scissors layer to a Centurion liner lock.



That will make a pretty robust 4 layer EDC, with 3 phillips drivers.   The backside one isnt needed but I also dont need a corkscrew so I will leave it.

[jrp316]

Good to know the pin sizes on the slide lock knives; I always thought they were like the liner locks and used 3mm outside, 2.5mm inside.

[Syph007]

Good to know the pin sizes on the slide lock knives; I always thought they were like the liner locks and used 3mm outside, 2.5mm inside.

Oh so they are different on the liner locks.  Good to know!

[crackout]

Darn, then I'll have to drill out the holes of the Outrider on my project.
Also, the holes on the backtools indicate that you can't drill them to a wider diameter.

I think my plans just vaporized.

[HankSolon]

Also, the holes on the backtools indicate that you can't drill them to a wider diameter.

Why? Remember my Hunter OE. It has 58mm (scissor) and 91 mm (hook) as backtools for a 111mm knife... ;-)

[crackout]

For my build I only have one backtool (awl) in the driver layer.
Now Syph stated that these backtools have a 2.2mm hole. When you look at the hole in the awl you can see there's no room for a bigger hole.
However, I need to drill these holes to 2.5mm because the backspring of the liner lock models has a 2.5mm hole.

[Syph007]

The pin stock is 2.2 mm but the tool holes are bigger.  2.5 mm will work fine.

Edit: I just checked, the tool holes are 2.5mm so you're good.  The pin stock is undersized, same as on the 91mm's.  So really this SAK could be reassembled with all 2.5mm pin stock, but the springs have 2.2 mm holes in them so they'd have to be enlarged, like the scissors layer.

[crackout]

Phew, that's a relief.
So I only have to drill the tools of the Slide-Lock knife to 3mm and the backsprings to 2.5mm and I'm golden.
Yeah...only.

I'll have to find a way to drill the scissors and the openers backspring to 2.5mm wihtout much of a hassle. Damn hardened steel.
I do have 3.0mm carbide bits tough.

[Syph007]

Phew, that's a relief.
So I only have to drill the tools of the Slide-Lock knife to 3mm and the backsprings to 2.5mm and I'm golden.
Yeah...only.

I'll have to find a way to drill the scissors and the openers backspring to 2.5mm wihtout much of a hassle. Damn hardened steel.
I do have 3.0mm carbide bits tough.

Its a small amount of steel to remove, as I'll have to do the same, hopefully it wont be annoying.  I dont have 3.0 carbides, but I have a 3.0 end mill that will have to do.

[Syph007]

Only an hour of crawling around on the carpet with a flashlight and I found that little spring.

I taped it together for the pic, as it wont stay together otherwise.

[PTRSAK]

Only an hour of crawling around on the carpet with a flashlight and I found that little spring.

I taped it together for the pic, as it wont stay together otherwise.

(Image removed from quote.)

I'd say that spring is a very easily lost item. I have 2 111mm SAK's, a Hercules and an Alpineer. I swapped the scales between the two because I wanted the Black scales on the Herc and BOTH of them had a small rubber O-ring in the position where the pic shows the spring.

The odd thing there is that the Herc I bought locally and the Alpineer came in a eBay lot from Germany if I remember correctly,  The point is that unless the o-ring is a genuine variation in place of the spring then two people on opposite sides of the world came up with the same solution to a problem.

While I say o-ring, it looks more like it is a slice of black rubber fuel tubing.


I think I saw someone mention that a replacement for the spring can be made from a scissor spring. not sure which size would be best.

[glorn]

From the pic it looks like the post the spring is mounted on stands proud of the slide surround. Could an e clip slip on the post to retain the spring? Or could the post be heated so the plastic becomes soft and essentially "peened" so to speak?

Though I suppose Vic doesn't anticipate folks losing springs during home disassembly.

[Syph007]

Well my 111mm liner lock donor came in today, so I have interesting pics and measurements to share.

This is a parachutist I am going to add scissors and maybe pliers too.



I found it strange that one side had 3 bushings, and the other 4.  Factory error, or standard?



Different pin sizes than the scale lock.



Here are all the layer parts laid out.  Note that the serrated blade and main blade have the same spring (except for the backtool cutout).  This means I can move the main blade to the outer layer and use the serrated blade spring with backtool.



I found this interesting comparing the openers from the scale and liner lock.  The scale lock has the 91mm openers, and this liner lock has the 93mm can opener, and then a massive even thicker cap lifter.  I noted the thickness of each part as well.



And here are all the parts I have so far, to play with.  I need to try a few layer arrangements to see what I prefer first.



Having this liner lock apart now confirms my decision that to make the best 111mm mod I can, it for sure must have the liner lock blade and opener layer, and then the other layers like scissors and pliers.  Im still undecided if I need the metal saw.

Cheers

[enki_ck]

You do need the metal saw. Those things are great.

[Syph007]

You do need the metal saw. Those things are great.

The problem is there is only one liner lock model that comes with a metal saw that is curved to fit in the outer layer.  That is the locksmith. 



It costs more than I want to pay.

I can use the one from the workchamp, but it would have to go in an inner layer and might obstruct more.  We'll see.

[enki_ck]

Can't you use the backspring from the serrated blade? I know I'd much rather like to have a big metal saw than a serrated blade. It does look like the pivot area of the file is smaller than on the serrated blade but that might be due to the camera angle.

And, yes. The Locksmith has been in my shopping cart a few times. Just never pulled the trigger on it.

[Syph007]

The backspring isnt the problem its the file itself.  Its a different shape on the liner lock vs the scale lock.  Same for the wood saw.  Once has a curvy spine, the other is straight.  Not a big issue if its an inner tool, but to put it on the outer layer wouldnt be ideal since it would feel sharp on the hand.

Here is a pick of the locksmith on the left.  Note the file and saw are curved on top.  The file and saw of the workchamp are straight.

[Syph007]

Well after 3 attempts to add the scissors layer in various spots I have concluded all the easiest ways of doing it have some issue so I decided I have to do it the hard way.

I tried the scissors layer on the front outer side and an enki guessed the can opener wont work.  On the back scale side the nick is against the blade and in accessible.  If I put it in between the blade layer and opener layer it fits nice, but the liner lock then cant work for both the blade and opener... so what to do?

Double up on the liner locks so one works the blade, one the opener, and the scissors layer can be in the middle for a compact feature laden 3 layer super 111mm 

Here are the 3 layers Im going to do a first test with.



Notice I have modified both liner locks to only have the part they need.  Two reasons I did this, one to save weight, and 2, the other parts seemed to be in the way.  I also removed one of the keyring holes as I only needed one. 

So we'll see how this works out....

[lowtech]

First:
this (and teh other 111 mm threads of teh last days) are really interesting.
Second: I´m looking forward to the various mods
Third: No. you don´t need the metal saw. Send it over to me. 
I´d love a 3 layer (Linerlock blade, opener layer and saw, backside awl and Phillips)

I´m going to try a simple "Sentinel Plus" with a blade and opener layer and no backside tools (or maybe the Awl only) as  a first try.

[enki_ck]

This will be an interesting one. Could you send it to me to test it out?

[Syph007]

I did a test fit up on pins to see how it would work.  Both locks worked fine and function was 100%.  The problem was that when closed where the blade tip is, since the liner was reduced there the blade tip is a bit too exposed. I can just rib my finger and hit the tip and I dont liek that so much.  So I ordered a sentinel to harvest that liner from and that should fill in the gap nicely.

Of course I could also cut custom Ti liners for each and make my own lockbars, but at this point Id rather just stick with stock liners.  Thye are certainly heavy though, but making Ti ones would be a huge pain.

[Nhoj]

This is all very interesting but Victorinox's difference between liner and scale lock are annoying.

[enki_ck]

Yeah, they should have known that MTO members would want to mix and match the parts.

[Syph007]

This is all very interesting but Victorinox's difference between liner and scale lock are annoying.

Yes its very strange, but completely analogous to the cellidor/alox thing.  The beefy version of the 91mm is the 93mm and it doesn't have scissors. 

The beefier version of the 111mm is the liner lock, and it doesn't have scissors.  Maybe both versions were designed for military and they never need scissors?

I dont mind having to drill out a few layers to metric sized for a couple mods, but it would be nice to not have to.  This isnt something I think Id be doing alot of anyhow since buying donors would be crazy expensive.  Im only doing this out of curiosity and to get a perfect for me EDC knife.

I will make 2 version though, one with scissors added only, and one with pliers and scissors.  Then it might be fun to make a big boy liner lock workchamp version too though.  Oh and maybe an alox scaled one if I make some scales... hmmm

[Syph007]

Well the last of my donor SAKs arrived today.  I was waiting on a OHO sentinel to get the liner lock for that.



And here is a pic of a OH vs reg blade.



If all goes well I should be showing off the re-assembled 111mm shortly.

[jrp316]

Syph...for some reason, the scissors that you have pictured closely resemble the 91->84 modded scissors that you make.

[Etherealicer]

I already find it exciting to see the monster in its parts but can't wait to see it in its final form.

[enki_ck]

...
If all goes well I should be showing off the re-assembled 111mm shortly.

How shortly?