German Dagger Replicas.

Chako · **on:** February 01, 2014, 04:59:36 PM

I wasn't planning on getting these, but somehow managed to buy them for a display even though I am not overly fond of what the swastika stood for during WWII (and even today). However, with that said, I did find these cheap reproductions intriguing in their variety. After buying them and looking online, it looks like the one on the right is a dress bayonet for police. The middle one is a 2nd pattern 1938 Leader Dagger for one of the many Nazi organizations (as far as I could tell). It appears many of them had different dress daggers. In fact, Germany was obsessed with dress daggers, and there are many variations out there. The one on the left I couldn't find anywhere online. These are cheap reproductions made in China and aren't exactly accurate to the real deal. For the price, they should make an interesting conversation piece hanging on the wall somewhere in my house.

kwakster · **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2014, 08:13:51 PM

The dagger on the left is a copy of the Göring Industrial Dagger, and i found this detailed piece of info about it on the internet:

This is a replica of the "Goring Industrial Dagger" - a gift to Goring from the Ruhr industrialists, in recognition of the benefits they had received during the "Five Year Plan for Industrialisation".

The original dagger was made by the ALCOSO Company (Alexander Coppel, Solingen) - and they created two examples.
The reason for this was to ensure that if such a fine presentation piece were to become damaged, then there would remain sufficient spare parts to restore the dagger.

The original presentation piece has never been seen, so it is not known if it survived World War Two.

In 1946, British Military Inspectors in Solingen discovered that the second copy example was in existence in the ALCOSO factory.
They regarded it as "an Nazi offensive weapon" and gave instructions that the piece was to be destroyed by having the blade broken.
This was done, and the remains of the second copy dagger were consigned to a filing cabinet.

Later on, in the 1960s, when (the now legendary) Colonel Atwood was in Solingen - buying up everything in sight - he obtained the dagger from the ALCOSO factory, where it had remained with its broken blade in 1946.
This account was given to me by Herr Lech, the post-war owner of the ALCOSO concern.
Atwood subsequently had the damascus smith Paul Muller make a new blade for the piece - and it featured prominently in his book "The Daggers and Edged Weapons of Hitler's Germany" (1965).

Publication of the images of the Goring Dagger attracted the attention of the Spanish manufacturer, Marto, based in Toledo.
They were looking to expand their range from inexpensive jewellery, and decided to go into Third Reich Daggers.
The Goring Industrial piece was one such item which they copied and marketed.
The example that you have seen in the auction appears to be one of the Marto products.

Frederick J. Stephens

Chako · **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2014, 03:34:16 AM

Thank you for that very informative piece. I couldn't find anything online. Many thanks.

dks · **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2014, 09:00:07 AM

Here is one from my lot.

An originally Belgian Bayonet that was made for the German Army, after they invaded Belgium.

It has two sharp edges, like a dagger. It feels like a small sword. On the frog it says 1942

Chako · **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2014, 01:07:40 PM

That is a nice historic piece. Call me funny, but I tend to collect things I know haven't killed anyone. Probably why I tend to shy away from original army gear like that.

dks · **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2014, 01:39:45 PM

It will be interesting to do a test on the handle and blade and see if there are any blood remains

Styerman · **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2014, 10:16:41 PM

Quick squirt of Luminol would do the trick , even today .

I don't like Nazi memorabilia for two reasons , they were a repugnant bunch of Smurfs , B, there are so many fakes out there .

Chris

RT1969 · **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2014, 12:35:28 AM

I have a 70s BW Kampfmesser from my dad, which I am proud of.
AFAIK, those two replicas of yours on the left would be illegal in Germany. You could collect 'the real deal', but the replicas would have been confiscated by customs. Besides this, I would not display them in my home, but that is your decision to make. $:-\$ Not trying to rain on your parade.

Another knife you might be interested in (without swastikas) is the Fahrtenmesser (http://www.kotte-zeller.de/Haller-Fahrtenmesser.htm?websale8=kotte-zeller-shop&ref=proms&pi=290131) which is the HJ-Fahrtenmesser, but with the swastika replaced by the boyscouts Fleur-de-Lys.

One last comment: From what I read, all of the knives (Fahrtenmesser, Führerdolch, Industriedolch) were more for representation than anything else and often of poor quality. So your chinese replicas might have a higher life expectation ;-)

Chako · **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:45:48 AM

All 3 are replicas. I didn't pay much for them. I would not want a real item...as I don't like to collect things that may have been used in combat. Mind you, these are all dress daggers and thus aren't sharpened or anything, nor I guess would be used in combat.

As I have said, I am not overly fond of Nazi memorabilia myself, be they real or fake. This was an impulse buy of somewhat accurate historical sharp and pointies. Everything else the seller had was truly dreadful fantasy crap.

JAfromMn · **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2014, 02:11:25 AM

Nazi crap.

they can keep em.

now the real deal ww2 German daggers are very nice and built beyond well fit and finish wise.

I wouldn't pat money for one but I would gladly except one as a gift.

I really hate all the junk they make made to look like a cool old weapon or tool.

sorry I had to rant.

that junk takes up way to much room in my favorite knife catalogs.

Chako · **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2014, 06:11:01 AM

They are actually very well made. To each their own.

JAfromMn · **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2014, 07:03:36 AM

Quote from: Chako on February 08, 2014, 06:11:01 AM

They are actually very well made. To each their own.

yeah

sorry I went off a little bit.

as long as you like them that's all that really matters.

Chako · **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:04:10 PM

The funny part is I am trying to like them...but I am having some issues with the whole WWII thing myself. These are essentially an impulse buy. I was looking for something new and historic and came across these for a song and a dance. They are well marked made in China...but are remarkably well made for replicas. Still undecided with what I am going to do with them. My initial intent was to put them into a shadow box and use it as a decoration somewhere in the house. To be honest, I am waffling on what to do with them.

Styerman · **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2014, 04:27:32 PM

IIRC , the Chinese scored some of the original dies . As a result , they are really a continuation of the production run , rather than replicas . Some will fool experts .

I recall seeing some of the real deal as a kid , SS, Naval, Airforce , and Bayos/field knives . Lots made it back in duffle bags after WWII .

Chris

Chako · **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2014, 05:02:16 PM

I did not know that. These do have the manufacturers mark and made in China laser etched on one side of the blade. At least they aren't trying to pass off as the real deal.

Styerman · **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2014, 01:49:09 AM

There is one interesting piece , the StieffelMesser ( bootknife ) , used in both WWI and WWII . It had a metal sheath , that would go on either a belt or boot , it was a spear point with a sharp false edge . The guard was asymetrical ( longer towards the bottom , than the top ) . Handles were grooved Beechwood . The thing was all bussiness . IIRC Boker still makes a version .

The Italian M1939 paratrooper fighting knife was a well thought out piece . Fox and a couple of Italian cutlers still make a version . Extrema Ratio also made one , including a modern version for edge up combat styles .

These items are less politically evocative . Although , like all combat knives , may have seen action .

Chris