Getting into Climbing

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Hi all... anyone here do any rock climbing?  I've been wanting to learn for years, and figure it'll be an excellent compliment to my cycling.  I'll be signing up for an introductory class at my local REI, but the reason I'm posting this is for input on tools...

What tools should I carry for climbing?  I was thinking my Skele-CX would be a good general purpose tool, but are there any others I should consider that are climbing specific?

Thanks in advance.

[Syph007]

I climbed alot during my 20s, but that was awhile ago now...

Great sport to get into.  I wasn't into MTs back then, but I did have a Vic clipped to my harness just in case.

If you climb with a partner make sure you trust them

Where I lived up north I bolted some routes and I soloed those with a soloist attachment for daily workouts.  I miss that.  Nothing like that around here, but plenty of indoor gyms, but the feel of real rock is so much better. 

I never did partner routes over 1 pitch so I never did real big climbs, but I sure do miss it.

[enki_ck]

Never tried real rock, just a few times at indoor clubs. It's great though.

Interesting you should mention the Skele. I think Nate/Mr. W. has some experiance in it adn said the good thing about the Skeletool SX (like the regular Skele but with a diamond file attached to the scale, new LM from 2013) would be a good tool for climbers.

Good luck with your new hobby and enjoy.

[Taxi Dad]

maybe a Victorinox Rescue tool ? plenty of cutting choices, and all OHO 
hell ! what do I know 

[Cupboard]

I have a friend that does a lot of work at height and swears by the Skeletool for easily and securely clipping to him.

Not the same but connected.

[Mr. Whippy]

I've done a fair bit of climbing.  First off, there is little need for tools when sport or trad climbing.  Skeletool is perfect because you can clip to your harness. 


MORE IMPORTANT:

1.  Get a good harness and learn it backwards and forwards.  It is your lifeline.
2.  Only buy new gear.   First thing you need is a belay device.  Personally I like BD ATC-Guide.  There are many good devices, but again LEARN YOUR DEVICE inside out and upside down.  IT IS YOUR CLIMBING PARTNER'S LIFELINE.
3.  Get a couple good locking carabiners.  I like screwgates, but twistgates are good too.
4.  Until you're ready to lead, there is no need to get any trad gear. 
5.  ONLY CLIMB WITH SOMEONE YOU'D TRUST YOUR LIFE WITH BECAUSE:  YOU ARE.
6.  Learn to say when.  It's easy to overtrain and hurt yourself, so stay in touch with your body.  When you're 20, you can recover from injured tendons and joints.  At 40, not so much.
7.  Good shoes are worth their weight in gold.  Get what works well for you.

Enjoy!

[enki_ck]

And be ready to find out about muscles you didn't know you had. After my first climb my forearms hurt like hell the next day.

[Syph007]

If you want a good laugh I'll upload some of my old climbing videos to youtube.    We were not at all good, but it was fun.

Starting off all I had was shoes, harness and chalk bag.   Later I got into top roping so I was buying webbing to make anchors and learned all the knots for those, and of course a climbing rope.  I used to keep a static line for repelling too.

Trusting your partner with you life is a big trust for sure.  The mistakes I made were my own though and not the fault of the belayer.

I made one that was really bad and I got off lucky.  Just started off climbing, and the second protection I put a small nut in a crack that was both not a good placement and weak rock.  I was cocky and just kept going.  Well I fell and that protection ripped right out.  The next one caught me but I was damn near at the ground when the rope stopped me.  My tailbone was about a foot from a sharp rock too.  That one shook me up with the thought of what could have happened.

[Syph007]

ha! Here you go.  I of course didnt film any of the good climbs we did. 

We top roped a small rock back in northern ontario when I was still up there.  Horrible rocks to climb, but we had to try.  We did eventually make the climb, but there was alot of trial and error and falling.  At least top roping you dont fall far.

Try not to laugh too hard at me.  I was 20 years younger and about 100 lbs lighter then. 

[Huntsman]

Hey Heinz

Congratulations you have made a decision to get into the best sport ever - Go for it.

Some good advice in this thread so far.

There is a nice progression to get the most out of this sport...
A course in a gym is a great way to start doing some 'top roping'.
Next you'll  maybe try some outside stuff - maybe a bolted route.
You'll then get into leading bolted
And hopefuly eventually traditional climbing and then leading traditional climbs.

Being a Brit - to me traditional climbing is the ultimate.
If these terms - traditional/leading/bolted/top-rope etc don't mean anything to you - Dont worry it will all become clear once you get into it.
Finding a dependable, compatible, safe partner is key to safety - But also to progression and fun
Ideally someone who you climb with frequently.
A climbing club is a great way to find partners - and to learn - if you are just starting out

Re equipment - You dont really need any knife/multi for single pitch fun climbing
You will need your climbing equipment of course - which will include a nut key if you are seconding traditional climbs.
When you get into ice climbing there are some really fun tools to acquire: Ice axes, ice screws, ice climbing protection etc

For longer trips (eg in the European Alps) I usualy threw in my Vic Huntsman into a pocket or my pack. Alhough I did buy a Skeletool recently - allegedly for climbing (caribiner on belt) - I have only taken it with me once and did not use it - And then I found the Wenger Matterhorn - So got one of those - A bit lighter and a few more functions. Although why they put two Phillips on that knife I have no idea - A corkscrew woudl be much more useful for that bottle of wine in the Alpine hut - And maybe fiddling with rope!!

So pliers and tools in general - whilst they may be useful are definitely not essential.
For instance non of my firends in any of my climbing clubs (I am in four - long story!!) carry any form of tool - apart from their climbing gear of course

You also need to consider weight and space very carefully when climbing - especially on multipitch and/or multiday trips - What would be more useful??? - A Skeletool or another couple of caribiners or some climbing 'protection' ie friends/nuts/hexes etc or some more slings!!

Never a straight answer!!!

But enjoy - I'd love to hear how you get on 

[Huntsman]

Try not to laugh too hard at me.  I was 20 years younger and about 100 lbs lighter then. 

Sorry Syph007 - I laughed .....  Pretty hard - especially when chunks of the rock face fell off - and you kept falling off  (I assume that was you on the route?)
Why - Coz I've been there ...
As you say not too bad with a top rope!!

Great to see/meet the extreme SAK surgeon at last - even if this was in his extreme climber incarnation.

[zoidberg]

Some things I would recommend:

Start with an indoor wall and don't use ropes.
Most places will have a boulder room or a line to stay under when not using ropes.
Get comfy and spend months here.

Small hand towel.
Nail clippers or scissors.
Chalk bag, get one with a small elastic loop, that is for a toothbrush later.
Cloth type tape for your fingers, don't pretape though, it is only for cuts or splits etc.
Shoes, they are only on while you are climbing and you want them to fit nice and tight.

It is balance and technique, not strength. Keep your weight on your legs, not on your arms.

Peace.

[Syph007]

Try not to laugh too hard at me.  I was 20 years younger and about 100 lbs lighter then. 

Sorry Syph007 - I laughed .....  Pretty hard - especially when chunks of the rock face fell off - and you kept falling off  (I assume that was you on the route?)
Why - Coz I've been there ...
As you say not too bad with a top rope!!

Great to see/meet the extreme SAK surgeon at last - even if this was in his extreme climber incarnation.

Ya the rock was horrible.  Its alot of frost freeze thaw and makes it all break off easy.  This was really early on in my climbing, I think wed only got our gear a month or 2 ago.  We had more enthusiasm than skill at that point, but it was alot of fun.  Id love to get my son interested in climbing when hes older.

[enki_ck]

Freaky, I haven't seen this pic in ages. I just found it in a box of old CDs, I think I'm 19, maybe 20 here. Baby face.

[microbe]

LOL, these posts remind me on my indoor climbing days. Great sport for strength training. Climbing halfway to a good hand grip, doing 10 pull-ups, then climbing on. In the end it did get boring though, as we knew all the routes to well, and they did not get changed enough. When we started to do bungee jumps from the top with those non elastic ropes, we eventually got kicked out of the club for irresponsible behavior. I did have a blast for as long as it lasted. Way to old for that smurf now...

[Mr. Whippy]

LOL, these posts remind me on my indoor climbing days. Great sport for strength training. Climbing halfway to a good hand grip, doing 10 pull-ups, then climbing on. In the end it did get boring though, as we knew all the routes to well, and they did not get changed enough. When we started to do bungee jumps from the top with those non elastic ropes, we eventually got kicked out of the club for irresponsible behavior. I did have a blast for as long as it lasted. Way to old for that smurf now...

I still boulder once or twice a week...

Here's from a few years ago.

[Huntsman]

Here's from a few years ago.

VERY NICE .... Mr Whippy
Although I hope you did not take too many whips in your climbing career
....Do you use that expression in US climbing  circles?
We dont get ice like that in Australia and not even in the UK and certainly not with that blue sky!!
Well not often.

When you get into ice climbing there are some really fun tools to acquire: Ice axes, ice screws, ice climbing protection etc

@ Heinz ..... See what I mean 

[enki_ck]

Very, VERY cool pics, Nate. Looks like a lot of fun.

[Mr. Whippy]

Thanks guys.  That's Hyalite canyon outside of Bozeman, Montana.

VERY NICE .... Mr Whippy
Although I hope you did not take too many whips in your climbing career
....Do you use that expression in US climbing  circles?
We dont get ice like that in Australia and not even in the UK and certainly not with that blue sky!!
Well not often.

Yep.  We use the word whip for a big fall on lead.  In ice climbing, though, the saying is, if you don't KNOW you can climb it, don't lead it.  Any significant whip is almost certainly a trip to the hospital.

BTW, a Charge or Wave is a great ice climbing knife because that diamond file comes in extremely handy if you clank your ice tools or screws into a rock.

Very, VERY cool pics, Nate. Looks like a lot of fun.

I love it.  Sadly those days have largely passed.  Now that the BossLady and I are empty nesters, going on an ice trip means she has no one to help her on the farm in winter.  If a storm rolls in, that's a lot of work for one person.     Maryland just doesn't stay cold enough long enough (usually) to make a day trip feasible.

[Shorty66]

I would not recommend clipping the tool to your harness.
There have been ropes cut by smoother edges. You do not want the tool to fall onto your belay partner either. Just have it in a jacketpocket or backpack.

If you go for the skeletool, get one with serrated blade. Cutting nylon with straight blades is not so easy.
I only carry a sak most of the time. I never used it to cut any ropes, but scissors came in handy more than once.

Also, make sure to only take advice from your climbing guides at REI or any climbing guide still in service. Techniques and best-practices get reworked very often and there is a good chance, that older climbers will tell you stuff which has been proved dangerous lately.

[Jothra]

Techniques and best-practices get reworked very often and there is a good chance, that older climbers will tell you stuff which has been proved dangerous lately.

I agree. I'm only in my (very) early 30s, and I learned to belay using Munter hitches. I don't think my friends and I so much as held a piece of proper belaying gear until 2006. If I make the mistake of mentioning this to other climbers, I get a lot of incredulous scoffing.

[Mr. Whippy]

Techniques and best-practices get reworked very often and there is a good chance, that older climbers will tell you stuff which has been proved dangerous lately.

I agree. I'm only in my (very) early 30s, and I learned to belay using Munter hitches. I don't think my friends and I so much as held a piece of proper belaying gear until 2006. If I make the mistake of mentioning this to other climbers, I get a lot of incredulous scoffing.

Absolutely nothing wrong with belaying or rappelling on a Munter hitch.  Heck, in all the rescue courses I've taken they expected you to be proficient with them, since you may not have a serviceable store bought in an emergency setting.

[Jothra]

Knowing how to use a Munter hitch is valuable. Walking into a gym not knowing there are alternatives is hi-larious.

I actually used them for construction sometimes; it's amazing the loads you can lower with some basic climbing knots.

Tangential fun story: I saw a guy using a grigri get kicked out once for drinking his coffee while he was belaying.

[Mr. Whippy]

Knowing how to use a Munter hitch is valuable. Walking into a gym not knowing there are alternatives is hi-larious.

I actually used them for construction sometimes; it's amazing the loads you can lower with some basic climbing knots.

Tangential fun story: I saw a guy using a grigri get kicked out once for drinking his coffee while he was belaying.

Grigri's are good for novice belayers and gym work,  but out climbing, they're heavy, easily jammed up with dirt, worthless on ice and cannot be safely used to rappel.

They do come in beautiful anodized colors however

[Syph007]

Yep a munter hitch was what I was taught when I started.  I bought an ATC after learning about those.

That dual rope system on the ice climb looks awesome.  I never tried dual rope but I always liked the idea of backup rope. 

[Mr. Whippy]

Yep a munter hitch was what I was taught when I started.  I bought an ATC after learning about those.

That dual rope system on the ice climb looks awesome.  I never tried dual rope but I always liked the idea of backup rope.

It has a lot of nice features:

1.  You can climb with slightly smaller diameter ropes, so they run in gear better
2.  Gear placement doesn't wreak havoc on rope placement
3.  In a fall, the pieces aren't shock loaded as much
4. You don't have to carry a second rope in a pack for rapping off
5.  You can belay tow followers at once if you're climbing as a three.

[Huntsman]

It has a lot of nice features:
1.  You can climb with slightly smaller diameter ropes, so they run in gear better
2.  Gear placement doesn't wreak havoc on rope placement
3.  In a fall, the pieces aren't shock loaded as much
4. You don't have to carry a second rope in a pack for rapping off
5.  You can belay tow followers at once if you're climbing as a three.

Dual rope climbing is pretty usual in the usual in the UK - especially as you move up the grades.
Agree with all of the above but the main benefit is reduction of rope drag - probably what you mean by point 2 - Mr. W?
I guess in bolted climbing the bolts are usually pretty much in a straight line. But in trad your protection can be all over the place and sometimes the rope drag almost completely inhibits movement. Eg you have to haul a load of rope through before making a move (which of course is dangerous!) - All that goes away with two ropes.

Knowing how to use a Munter hitch is valuable.

Absolutely agree - Its a brilliant knot - although we call it an Italian hitch.
Brilliant in its simplicity and usefulness
Very useful when 'moving together' if you have to set up a quick belay to bring in your partner.

It's interesting how techniques vary from country to country.
We got into an argument with a French climber in the Verdone Gorge - well actually he verbally attacked us.
The Verdone is awesome place BTW - second biggest gorge in the world after the GC I heard.
We were belaying through a harness attached belay device with the belayer secured to the fixed bolts.
He insisted we should belay the climber off the fixed bolt with a Munter Hitch and have the belayer independently secured to the protection.
As much as I hate to accept defeat to a Frenchman - I have to agree for that specific set up of bolts/protection etc he was right.
And I became a big fan of the Munter/Italian after that incident. 

[Mr. Whippy]

It has a lot of nice features:
1.  You can climb with slightly smaller diameter ropes, so they run in gear better
2.  Gear placement doesn't wreak havoc on rope placement
3.  In a fall, the pieces aren't shock loaded as much
4. You don't have to carry a second rope in a pack for rapping off
5.  You can belay tow followers at once if you're climbing as a three.

Dual rope climbing is pretty usual in the usual in the UK - especially as you move up the grades.
Agree with all of the above but the main benefit is reduction of rope drag - probably what you mean by point 2 - Mr. W?
I guess in bolted climbing the bolts are usually pretty much in a straight line. But in trad your protection can be all over the place and sometimes the rope drag almost completely inhibits movement. Eg you have to haul a load of rope through before making a move (which of course is dangerous!) - All that goes away with two ropes.

You know, I've never led trad climbing.  It's a combination of having bad arthritis in my big toes and not having any confidence in my gear placement.  Getting a piece placed so it won't come loose when rope is pulled through and is stable from multiple fall angles just never clicked with me.

On ice, you fire in a screw in good ice (or a couple screws if you need to) and you've got pro as strong as a sport climbing bolt.  And of course, working out of full steel shanked boots with crampons means your toes never have to support your weight.

In the world of ice climbing, rope drag doesn't have the friction of rock and outcroppings, it's more about freeze up and keeping the ropes out of the way of crampons and ice tools. 

When I read these posts, I realize what a silly sport it is!

[Huntsman]

Hey Mr W - Sounds like your climbing days are waning (bit like me  ) - But if you get a chance to try some trad you really should.
It's brilliant - and the gear placement is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the technique. It's amazing to be so independent and not needing any 'artificially' placed protection.
And on the lower grades that most 'normal' people climb - you can nearly always place some 'bomber' gear. I liked your comment about 'if you can't lead it don't climb it' - That kind if applies to all my leading - I don't like falling - So typically don't  - but I have taken one or two lead falls - and of course the gear is fine!!
Some of my buddies say: 'If you ain't flying you ain't trying!!' Hmmmm 
And trusting a No 1 wire or any 'friend'/camming device is a real mental leap like you say.

Yep ice climbing/winter mountaineering is totally nuts i I got into this quite a long time after I had been summer climbing and it takes the sport to a whole new level of scaryness.
I always did more mixed/mountaineering routes - as opposed to the pure ice stuff that you are doing above. Never forget one route when I was one whole rope length away from my partner with only one dodgy nut placement over the 50metres. - I was crossing a sloping snow field with a few rocky bits - Thankfully not too steep - and I did not have any snow stakes for protection! Like you say falling is just not an option.