more comprehensive feedback system?

[powernoodle]

First off, I love MTO and find the people here to be the nicest on the interweb.  So this is not a criticism, but maybe just food for thought.

I would like to see a feedback reporting system that maybe shows the number of transactions a seller has entered into, the percentage of favorable outcomes, etc.  Maybe the current software does not allow for this level of feedback.  But when buying on other forums or eBay, the first thing I look at is the seller's feedback score, and if its a seller with few or no sales, or less than 99% good feedback, I like to play it safe and pass that one by.  That's kept me out of a lot of trouble over the years on those other forums.

Just something to cogitate on as we go forward, with the shield of brotherhood in one hand and the sword of victory in the other.  Thanks.

[Grant Lamontagne]

For the most part, Dear Old Uncle Def doesn't believe in Feedback.  I've ranted on this a number of times over the years, but here's the short version:

MTO is a happy place.  Most folks don't want to post bad feedback for someone and rock the boat, which is why the Feedback Forum is mostly just a bunch of back patting threads.  Also, I'm not sure too many folks here really search the Feedback Forum before trading with someone here, so even if there is some useful information, it's not usually looked at.  That's why we recently had to chase down a certain deadbeat member ripping people off, force him to make amends to most, then ban him.  there was some bad feedback about him, but people (including me) traded with him and got burned anyway.  Then when it finally came to light, people came out of the woodwork to complain about him.

Also, this is primarily a forum, not really a sales platform- which we also have at www.EDCSource.com, a site which does keep track of feedback, seller and buyer ratings etc.  I'm not sure how we could add trade feedback to the accounts- it just isn't really something the forum is set up to do.

It's certainly something we can look into, but I'm not sure that a) it's something we can do, and b) that it would get used much if we did.

Def

[gregozedobe]

I usually look for some MTo feedback before dealing with someone I don't know.  If I see some +ve feedback that helps me feel more confident dealing with someone (particularly if it is something expensive), but zero feedback won't stop me ( I know what it is like to be a newbie on a forum).

I like the way it is more a friendly, helpful gathering rather than a commercial/sales oriented site 

[Toolslinger]

Was trying to find words to express how I felt, but I think Def and gregozedrobe really nailed it down in their posts. Long live MT.O!

[Grant Lamontagne]

For the record, I would like to have a better method for protecting members here- I really would.  While feedback helps, it's not always the answer we are looking for.  For example, most folks by now know about the Pulse I bought on eBay some years ago.  I left the seller bad feedback because the tool was completely trashed, and when I tried to contact the seller about it the answer was basically "too bad, so sad, bye bye."

This seller literally sold so much stuff that my bad feedback was completely buried by other feedback and was virtually worthless as a result.  The seller had an excellent feedback score so I would have never guessed the guy wasn't aware of the difference between "trashed" and "slight wear."

I really don't want to shoot down this idea completely, nor do I want it to sound like I am.  We have in fact debated this sort of thing in the ultra secret Moderator's forum (shh!) for years and we haven't come up with a viable solution yet.  Of course, we aren't all knowing or all seeing, so I welcome any suggestions folks may have.

Def

[Taxi Dad]

just my 2 cents worth, but if someone is spending time on here adding to the 'chat' and general silliness I feel much more confident in dealing with them, that said I've no probs. with a couple of 'newbies' I've had the pleasure of dealing with. On the whole this place seems to work like a firm I was employed by a while back, the 'boss' there used to call it organized chaos !
I've been bitten here, but not as often as in the real world 
the Mod team and Def. seem to have their fingers on the pulse and I'm sure they could/would sort out any problems that weren't too childish ? 

[Taxi Dad]

* I've just read my post, and honestly Def. there WAS no 'pun' intended with the word PULSE 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I think you hit the nail on the head there- guys who actually use the forum as a forum rather than a sales platform are more likely to be on the level.  Yes, we have had a few exceptions to that rule as well, but I think you'll find none of those exceptions are still here.

No worries on the Pulse- I've made my peace with it.  I still have it by the way- I decided it wasn't Leatherman's fault so I never wanted to send it in, even though they told me once they would replace it for me.  I keep it as a reminder not to trust people I don't know, online or otherwise.

Def

[Cupboard]

I use the feedback forum, primarily for people I don't know.
If I can't find any feedback then I pay with Paypal and hope that will cover me. If I know the person or they've got consistent good feedback then I'll gift the money because I'd rather the cash went to the person and not Paypal.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'm glad to see that some folks are using it, however, as I said earlier, many guys don't want to rock the boat by leaving bad feedback for anyone.  Many folks avoid leaving bad feedback on eBay because they are concerned that someone will leave bad feedback for them.  It's even worse when it's a community like this one since nobody wants to cause friction with people they know.

Def

[Cogito]

Maybe some sort of secret anonymous feedback system?

[gregozedobe]

Maybe some sort of secret anonymous feedback system?

But then there is nothing to stop people leaving undeserved bad feedback, or leaving undeserved good feedback for themselves or a friend.

[Cogito]

Maybe some sort of secret anonymous feedback system?

But then there is nothing to stop people leaving undeserved bad feedback, or leaving undeserved good feedback for themselves or a friend.

I'm sure there would be some way to verify that a transaction did occur and the feedback portion would be secret.

[gregozedobe]

Maybe some sort of secret anonymous feedback system?

But then there is nothing to stop people leaving undeserved bad feedback, or leaving undeserved good feedback for themselves or a friend.

I'm sure there would be some way to verify that a transaction did occur and the feedback portion would be secret.

Sounds like it might involve considerable extra admin work for somebody(ies) ?

[Cogito]

Maybe some sort of secret anonymous feedback system?

But then there is nothing to stop people leaving undeserved bad feedback, or leaving undeserved good feedback for themselves or a friend.

I'm sure there would be some way to verify that a transaction did occur and the feedback portion would be secret.

Sounds like it might involve considerable extra admin work for somebody(ies) ?

Well they do say that in order for man to gain something he must sacrifice something.  This is alchemy's first law of equivalent exchange

[gregozedobe]

Well they do say that in order for man to gain something he must sacrifice something.  This is alchemy's first law of equivalent exchange

That seems similar to :  "Nothing in life is truly free"     

[ducttapetech]

Maybe some sort of secret anonymous feedback system?

But then there is nothing to stop people leaving undeserved bad feedback, or leaving undeserved good feedback for themselves or a friend.

I'm sure there would be some way to verify that a transaction did occur and the feedback portion would be secret.

Sounds like it might involve considerable extra admin work for somebody(ies) ?

Well they do say that in order for man to gain something he must sacrifice something.  This is alchemy's first law of equivalent exchange

FMA

that's us mobile

[Grant Lamontagne]

Maybe some sort of secret anonymous feedback system?

But then there is nothing to stop people leaving undeserved bad feedback, or leaving undeserved good feedback for themselves or a friend.

I'm sure there would be some way to verify that a transaction did occur and the feedback portion would be secret.

A system like that is built into the forum, and it's called Karma.  Basically if you like someone, or found a post helpful you can click the thumbs up button and they get a karma point.  Or if someone says or does something you don't like you click on the thumbs down, amusingly called a "smite" and they lose a point.

It didn't work in the same way that eBay feedback doesn't work.  People are either afraid to smite someone else in the off chance that the other person will smite them back, or they read too much into them by thinking the other person has 5,000 "good" points but three bad ones so there must be something wrong with them.  This is why eBay only rates people for the last six months or so, because some people avoided dealing with people who "only" had 99.9% feedback.  People always fixated on the negative.

Also, people would get supremely offended by any smites they got, and ones that others had.  Bob (J-Sews) got one smite and it almost started a witch hunt for who did it.  Bob was pretty well indifferent to it, but others were really offended that someone would take a shot at Bob, who really isn't as bad as he's made out to be!    I won't tell you what happened when I got smited (smote?), and while I didn't much care either, others took great offense to the Grand Poobah getting a black eye.  That doesn't seem fair to me.

All in all we scrapped it for pretty well the same reason we don't allow political or religious discussions here- it just makes people draw meaningless lines around themselves and separates them from everyone else.

Def

[Syph007]

For the purpose of selling in the trades forums really all someone needs to know is how many successful transactions that person has been a part of.  But... if you're a regular you pretty well know who's good to deal with anyhow.. so... 

[Cogito]

I guess you could force everyone to do their transactions on ebay instead.

[ducttapetech]

I like the way we do it now. We are a forum first. The selling and trading is a added bonus. This place is not like other forums or auction type sites. Eveyone is cool and rarely there are bad deals or transactions, and if there is, the members here seem to have no problem warning or telling everybody here and are dealt with. The thing is, when you screw somebody over here, its not just smurfing them over, it smurfing over a family member. A little more personal. I has been messed over before and I got angry, but if I got messed over here, I would be looking for blood.

that's us mobile

[bmot]

I like the way we do it now. We are a forum first. The selling and trading is a added bonus. This place is not like other forums or auction type sites. Eveyone is cool and rarely there are bad deals or transactions, and if there is, the members here seem to have no problem warning or telling everybody here and are dealt with. The thing is, when you screw somebody over here, its not just smurfing them over, it smurfing over a family member. A little more personal. I has been messed over before and I got angry, but if I got messed over here, I would be looking for blood.

that's us mobile

This.


We're a forum, we talk about tools (and stuff ) and well, some trade between friends happens, that's okay . But I don't think it should get more complicated or regulated than it is, certainly as, the more "regulating" the forum staff does, the quicker someone who did get smurfed here will point and blame forum staff. I don't think we want that.