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New Toys

ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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New Toys
on: April 10, 2014, 07:44:25 PM
Thanks to a recent bonus at work I have been able to catch up on a number of things I was putting off, including a couple of Leatherman tools that have been eluding me for a while.  I'll get a full review of them done soon, but for now, here are my initial impressions.  Sorry about the terrible photos. 

OHT:



I've seen and handled this one before, so I don't know if this qualifies as an "Initial Impressions" type thread, but this is the first one I have given some thought to carrying and using.  The ones I have handled were either at SHOT or a gift for someone else so I didn't want to get it all scratched up.



My thoughts haven't really changed on this thing- I feel it's pretty bulky for me, but then I have fairly small to medium sized hands for a man.  I suppose that is the result of not actually working for a living.  :P



Also, Leatherman's claim that this is an all one handed tool amuses me- partly because Buck did it first with the X-Tract, which I find to be much easier to use and partly because half the tools are right hand friendly and half of the tools are left hand friendly.  The result?  All of the tools are one handed operation, but you'll need two hands to use them all. 



There's not a lot of utility for such a large tool either, although I would like to give Leatherman credit for including drivers that aren't super stubby, and for not outfitting this with a blade, a saw and the rest various flatheads.  The rescue cutter is a very nice addition.



Here are some better photos from the one I borrowed before giving away a while back.



I will admit to not having noticed the small lock on the slider that keeps the head from deploying inadvertently.  Now that I see it, I like the option in theory, but I'll probably never use it- it seems to me that Leatherman was trying too hard to improve the sliding head plier design by adding unnecessary features.  For one, the spring that opens the pliers when they are slid out seems to provide enough resistance that the plier head doesn't seem prone to premature ejection.  Second, the point of the sliding head is that it is quickly deployed- not so much if you have to fiddle with a teeny lock.  Also, it seems redundant since the buttons on the side should function as a lock in the first place.



So what do I like about this tool?  Well, it's easy to complain about, since it copies so many other tools, but I think what I like about it is that, well, it copies other tools.



The sliding head and replaceable cutters are a Gerber thing, and both are quite functional.  Also, the designs on the outside of the handles that show what tool is placed where was seen on the BuckTool 350 a long time ago.  That's a good thing, and kudos to Leatherman to swallow their pride enough to embrace what works, even if it wasn't their idea.  It takes a wise man to realize he doesn't have all the answers, and good on Leatherman for picking up a good idea and running with it.



I also like the rescue cutter, but I think I said that already.  :D

And, speaking of Rescue Cutters, here is the Leatherman tool I have been looking forward to for a long time.

Raptor:



Anyone who has been here for any length of time knows full well that I have been pushing for a major brand to produce a shears based tool for a long time.  Yes, Bear produces one and the Paul Chen Multitasker is an amazing set of shears, but the rest of it is pretty blah.  At best.

Def mentions shears

Def mentions a shear based tool sarcastically

Def starts a thread talking about how cool a shear based tool would be

I am not taking credit for the development of this tool mind you, but I did mention it to the folks at Leatherman (and elsewhere) quite a few times.



So what do I think of them now that they are in my hands?  Great tool.  Completely missed the mark though.  :P



Don't get me wrong, these seem like a great set of shears, I like the plastic (easily cleaned!) sheath, I like how simple overall the function is, and how intricate the design is.  The shears themselves feel very confident, the ring cutter seems like it would be quite adequate and the rescue cutter is excellent.  This is a nice, lightweight tool with no extras like a bottle opener or screwdriver that would just weigh an EMT down.  The glass breaker is kind of debatable, but what the heck, it's not like it was a difficult thing to add into the design, so why not have it?



I also like the addition of the pocket clip- after all, when dealing with a poopy fan scenario an EMT may want to put these somewhere out of the way but that's closer than the sheath might be- after all, a duty belt fills up quick when you add medications, glove pouches, CPR kits etc.  I also like that the clip is removable, so that it isn't a necessity- if you don't want it there- poof, it's gone with nothing more than a wave of a magic Torx.



So why do I feel that this thing has missed the mark?  Simple- it's not a mark, it's marketing.  "Hey, let's make an EMT tool so that EMT's will have an easier job saving people!"  Wrong.  "Hey, let's make a tool that looks like it would be great for an EMT (or law enforcement, or military, or a firefighter etc) so that people will think it's cool and buy it so that they can be just like the guys on Third Watch (or CSI, Law & Order etc)."  An EMT probably wouldn't carry this, and if they did, it would be alongside a regular set of trauma shears, which would likely see most of the action.  Why?  I'm glad you asked.



This doodad costs $100 give or take.  On an EMT salary, that's another set of comfortable boots.  That's a few extra shirts to change into when one gets covered in blood, vomit or worse.  On top of that, there are far too many holes, cracks and niches in the Raptor for the blood, vomit and worse to get trapped in, meaning it would be a real pain in the arse to clean.  And, to make matters worse, if it gets broken, Leatherman's guarantee is great, but with a minimum two week turnaround time an EMT would work a lot of shifts without their most basic, most relied on tool.

This is how to do trauma shears right

Ten sets of shears for $10.  Or, to put it another way, a hundred sets of shears for the cost of the Raptor.  That's a hundred shears that an EMT can clean easily (no crevices) or toss away if they get too gummed up.  And, no EMT would worry about pushing a set of shears like that to the limit, because they have nine more pairs in the bus.  They might hesitate putting a $100 set of trauma shears in a position where they might get broken or lost, and let's face it, if you are the one they are helping you don't want them hesitating.

I have actually ordered some regular trauma shears and I plan to test them against the Raptor- bearing in mind that I ordered 4 pairs of shears for less than a quarter of what the Raptor cost.  I have no doubt that the raptor is indeed high quality, but it's the same reason that Lamborghini doesn't make ambulances- they'd be the fastest, best ambulances out there without a doubt, but for the same cost you can convert a hundred Ford Transit vans.



So, to me, the Raptor has a lot more merit as a day to day use tool.  The shears will make quick work out of cutting up old bank/credit cards, cutting strapping on packages, opening clam packs and the like- things that most SAK or multitool scissors are a bit light for.  All in all, when taken realistically, I think the Raptor is going to be one of my favorite EDC tools.  As an EMT specific tool I think it leaves a lot to be desired.

Lucky for the folks at Leatherman, I am not an EMT.  :P

Def
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 07:46:05 PM by Grant Lamontagne »
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gb Offline Dexter

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Re: New Toys
Reply #1 on: April 10, 2014, 09:49:07 PM
Thanks for the review! Do you have any shots of these tools with a wave for example for comparison of size?


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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: New Toys
Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 10:05:03 PM
Not at the moment, but I am sure I can arrange something for you in the not too distant future.

I'd also like to point out this is not a review per se- just my initial thoughts.  I really hate those guys that open a box, fiddle with something for thirty seconds then review it as if they are some kind of experts.  I like to put the tool to work for a while and see how it carries and holds up for a while before I write an actual review.

I did manage to use the Raptor shears for a couple of things since writing this- I opened the amazingly soft plastic bag that the license plate registration sticker came in and it sliced through that without a problem.  Often heavy duty cutters will gum up on soft plastic like that.  I also used it to cut open a clam pack and it made short work of that as well.  The ergonomics on the handle could be a bit better though.  They seem a little rough when cutting the more resistant plastic of the clam pack, so I wonder how hard they will be on the hands when one uses the ring cutter.   :ahhh

Def
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us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: New Toys
Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 10:34:44 PM
Nice sorta review Def.

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us Offline sawman

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Re: New Toys
Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 10:41:38 PM
Your remarks make me want one of these, but for $100 bucks I can buy so many other things... I think I'll pass. :td:
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gr Offline kkokkolis

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Re: New Toys
Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 11:19:08 PM
You are absolutely right but that's the truth with every multitool. A specialized tool works better and professionals have lots of task specific tools. These Multitools are for the amateur that won't have a tool chest/cradle/box/closet/warehouse with specialized tools nearby. Still, when you already have a SAK or a Multi and you need a pair of shears you can add a pair of shears. Or a $1 pair of scissors and such. Unless you are a MTO member and want a stimulus for conversation or a collection items.
As a psychiatrist I don't use shears and tweezers any more but when I did I would put them in the container after doing their job and nurses would bring a fresh, clean and sterilized pair. I didn't want to know how and who sterilized and cleaned them, provided I wouldn't have to do it myself.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: New Toys
Reply #6 on: April 11, 2014, 01:02:43 AM
I agree and don't agree.

Yes, you are right in that a multitool is a compromise between functionality and convenience.

I disagree that this is for the amateur though. At least not in concept.  They may sell more of these to civilians but I believe the concept is aimed at first responders.

I think this is the strength of a general purpose tool rather than a targeted tool.  Just imagine that the EMT who carries this needs a basic tool like a knife, saw, wire cutters or screwdriver?  They would probably be better served by carrying a Rebar or ST300 and a set of disposable shears than carrying a Raptor.

Def

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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: New Toys
Reply #7 on: April 11, 2014, 01:15:20 AM
I tried to like the OHT, but it just wasnt for me and I returned it.  Too bulky for my liking and like you pointed out, you cant open all the tools one handed, with the same hand.  That never actually occured to me before I bought it, but its obvious after the fact! :D

The raptor looks neat, but I dont need it.  If it was $40 Id buy it with little hesitation though.
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us Offline Breezy12

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Re: New Toys
Reply #8 on: April 11, 2014, 04:53:50 AM
I think this is the strength of a general purpose tool rather than a targeted tool.  Just imagine that the EMT who carries this needs a basic tool like a knife, saw, wire cutters or screwdriver?  They would probably be better served by carrying a Rebar or ST300 and a set of disposable shears than carrying a Raptor.

Def

I had the exact same thought the first time I handled a Raptor. :-\ if the price point was a little lower, I'd probably grab a set for myself though.


us Offline neillcurrie

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Re: New Toys
Reply #9 on: April 11, 2014, 02:29:02 PM
All I need to know is: how good a job will they do trimming my nails ;)


us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: New Toys
Reply #10 on: April 11, 2014, 03:12:05 PM
I tried to like the OHT, but it just wasnt for me and I returned it.  Too bulky for my liking and like you pointed out, you cant open all the tools one handed, with the same hand.  That never actually occured to me before I bought it, but its obvious after the fact! :D

The raptor looks neat, but I dont need it.  If it was $40 Id buy it with little hesitation though.
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us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: New Toys
Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 03:12:28 PM
All I need to know is: how good a job will they do trimming my nails ;)
Or nose hairs.

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us Offline sawman

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Re: New Toys
Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 03:15:23 PM
What I want to know is if they can't produce it any less than having to charge $100 for these scissors, then why bother? I know some people will buy them but I guarantee it won't be a top seller due to the cost. It will be discontinued before long due to lack of sales unless they lower the price to at least half of that.
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: New Toys
Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 06:14:11 PM
OHT is on my hip today.  We'll see if it gets used for anything and how well it works.  :D

Def

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us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: New Toys
Reply #14 on: April 11, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
It should serve you well. I have been impressed with it. Its kinda bulky, but does not weigh anything like you think it would.

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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: New Toys
Reply #15 on: April 11, 2014, 06:59:15 PM
Yeah, I am noticing that.

I don't like this version of the MOLLE sheath though.

Def

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us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: New Toys
Reply #16 on: April 11, 2014, 07:00:12 PM
Yeah, I don't much care for the shealth either.

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« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 07:51:58 PM by ducttapetech »
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: New Toys
Reply #17 on: April 11, 2014, 07:42:00 PM
I usually like MOLLE sheaths but this one leaves a lot to be desired.

Def

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ca Offline CanadianLMfan

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Re: New Toys
Reply #18 on: April 12, 2014, 07:36:24 PM
I still refuse to pay $70 for a fancy pair of scissors, which is what I think the Raptor is. :facepalm:
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: New Toys
Reply #19 on: April 12, 2014, 07:47:32 PM
I like the Raptor.  It is indeed just a fancy pair of scissors, but I have been wanting a major manufacturer to make me a fancy pair of scissors for years.  I just wish they had gone with a general use mentality and not the super sexy EMT market.  The tool may have been less flashy, but it would have been a lot more functional.

That having been said, I did manage to cut some household copper wire yesterday with the shears, so they are perfectly useful for regular tasks.

I have found one thing I find annoying with them, and this might just be my pair, but they are floppy when folded up.  I mean when you first pull then out of the sheath, if you don't fold out the handles they just flop about.  This would be really annoying if you are trying to use the O2 wrench, strap cutter or glass breaker.  It also makes the thing feel pretty cheap.

Anyone else have a floppy tool or is it just me?   :ahhh

Def
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us Offline Kampfer

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Re: New Toys
Reply #20 on: April 12, 2014, 09:54:37 PM
I have a dear friend is a EMT, I am asking him to give me his thoughts on Raptor.
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: New Toys
Reply #21 on: April 13, 2014, 12:36:25 AM
I'd be very interested to hear his thoughts on it.

Def

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us Offline J-sews

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Re: New Toys
Reply #22 on: April 13, 2014, 05:05:32 PM
You make some excellent points about the Raptor Grant. :salute: The build quality is first rate, but the high price and the difficult "clean-ability" were the first concerns my friends at the fire department pointed out. :-\
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: New Toys
Reply #23 on: April 13, 2014, 10:55:36 PM
Build quality is indeed first rate.  What I see here is typical of Leatherman these days- someone comes up with an idea (such as a shears based multitool) then everyone brainstorms how to make it sexy enough to sell.  A few changes are made to the original concept here and there until all the usefulness has gone to Hades, but boy does it sure look good.

I wonder what Tim would have thought if he was on the side of the road in an old Fiat with half of the current Leatherman lineup?

Def
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Offline Max Archer

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Re: New Toys
Reply #24 on: April 14, 2014, 01:53:22 AM
A friend of mine, who is an EMT, was given a pre-production Raptor a little over a year ago to test. He said that while it was a very nice tool, it wasn't going to replace his dedicated shears etc anytime soon. What he did think it was great for was off-duty carry, or for emergency professionals in non-medical fields who might still want a basic rescue tool.

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us Offline Lynn LeFey

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Re: New Toys
Reply #25 on: April 14, 2014, 05:20:26 AM
I don't mean to bag on a product, but isn't a wrench made for an oxygen tank that's made of a ferrous metal kind of ... stupid?

And, looking at dedicated oxygen wrenches, I think I'm right here... zink or plastic from what I'm seeing.


us Offline captain spaulding

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Re: New Toys
Reply #26 on: April 14, 2014, 05:31:16 AM
I don't mean to bag on a product, but isn't a wrench made for an oxygen tank that's made of a ferrous metal kind of ... stupid?

And, looking at dedicated oxygen wrenches, I think I'm right here... zink or plastic from what I'm seeing.


No idea about the optimal material for a oxygen wrench, but since we are talking about the oxygen wrench I have to put this out there. I just don't understand why they put such specific features like this on tools that maybe a fraction of the people who actually buy the tool will use it for. I would love to see a survey of 100 people who buy a OHT and see how many people actually use the oxygen wrench for its intended purpose. Why not put a open wrench there instead? They could actually do many different size open wrenches in places of the deployment holes for the four tools that have a deployment hole. Much more functionality and useful to the normal person in my opinion.
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us Offline Lynn LeFey

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Re: New Toys
Reply #27 on: April 14, 2014, 06:24:23 AM
I was actually thinking of the oxygen wrench on the Raptor. But yeah, the OHT too.


us Offline captain spaulding

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Re: New Toys
Reply #28 on: April 14, 2014, 07:22:00 AM
I was actually thinking of the oxygen wrench on the Raptor. But yeah, the OHT too.


It makes more sense on the Raptor in my opinion.
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us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: New Toys
Reply #29 on: April 14, 2014, 11:23:03 AM
I have used the Oxygen wrench on a oxygen tank once. Mainly I use the wrench to OH open the strap cutter.

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