Survivorman Bigfoot 2 part special

[captain spaulding]

Did any of you see the first episode of the two part special of the Survivorman Bigfoot episodes? Just wanted to know what you guys thought. I think the guy he was with is a scam artist. Not saying I don't believe a Bigfoot could exist, but I just think the guy he was with is a quack.


http://lesstroud.ca/news/survivorman-bigfoot

[MadPlumbarian]

I thought it sucked! Plain and simple,,  JR

[captain spaulding]

I thought it sucked! Plain and simple,,  JR

Agreed.

[MadPlumbarian]

I thought it sucked! Plain and simple,,  JR

Agreed.

It's surviverman, not wilderness detective, lol  JR

[ironraven]

I did.

I'm interested in the blazes and those two oversized jacks. The blazes I can explain as natural events if there are two or three, but if they form a perimeter, not so easily. And I can't explain the sculptures as natural phenomenon.

If asked "do I believe in bigfoot", I've actually answered much the same way Stroud did. It's like when I say I believe in UFOs- I am NOT talking about flying saucers full of little guys from the Andromeda galaxy. I am talking about what appeared to be a solid, airborne object, operating under it's own power in a controlled manner who's flight characteristics and/or design principles I can not identify or explain in a rational manner. Don't know what it is, but there is something, and I really hope we can explain it away with sane, rational, terrestrial/human origins.  Makes the world much tidier, both for Bigfoots and UFOs.

[captain spaulding]

This is a very interesting watch if you have not seen it. VERY long video though. Something you might put on while doing something else and just listen. Some interesting stuff in there from Les though that make perfect sense.


***Warning*** Strong language if I remember correctly.

[MadPlumbarian]

UFOs I think are kinda the same thing, bare with me and let me know what you think.. Do you think the human evolution is done? Think it could go both ways but by going with the hair we would go to the Bigfoot, yet by going hairless we would go to an alien, no? And if our smarts were to increase I'm sure we would some time invent time travel? Thus a UFO? No? JR

[captain spaulding]

Not sure I really follow you on that one. 

[MadPlumbarian]

Not sure I really follow you on that one. 

Evolution of man, from monkey to now, so from hairy to skin, from small to larger and from hunched over to standing upright.. Ok now what if we didn't loose the hair, and kept growing that would pretty much describe Bigfoot no? On the other hand if we loose all the hair and keep getting smarter and invent a device that can time travel, that would pretty much describe a UFO and alien no? JR

[captain spaulding]

A UFO and time travel are not connected in my opinion. I don't see how travelling in a flying object would be time travel unless you could match the speed of light which would basically slow down and stop time not let you travel back or forward in time (I think). It's late and thinking about this is making my head hurt. 


Alien is a loose term. We are alien to other life forms on other planets. If there is other life out there. Which I would say there most definitely is.

[MadPlumbarian]

Yeah it's kinda late, only 3:30 in the morning! Everyone has there own thoughts on everything, this was some theory I came up with looong looong ago! JR

[lister]

Ok now what if we didn't loose the hair...

If we hadn't lost the hair, we would have never invented fire. Can you imagine the consequences of a freezing hairy monkey getting closer and closer to the fire? 

[MadPlumbarian]

Ok now what if we didn't loose the hair...

If we hadn't lost the hair, we would have never invented fire. Can you imagine the consequences of a freezing hairy monkey getting closer and closer to the fire? 

Lol, good one. JR

[ironraven]

And if our smarts were to increase I'm sure we would some time invent time travel? Thus a UFO? No? JR

The time travel theory is actually scarier to me than the extraterrestrail theory.

Of course, Bigfoot might just be some middle class dude from somewhere out by Antares who is sick of his boss, sick of his wife, sick of his kids, smurf ya'll, I'm going camping and I'm not pulling over until I'm out of hypercom range.

[captain spaulding]

And if our smarts were to increase I'm sure we would some time invent time travel? Thus a UFO? No? JR

The time travel theory is actually scarier to me than the extraterrestrail theory.

I don't know why it's scary. More like intriguing.

[Lynn LeFey]

I hate to be the sceptic here but...

There is no bigfoot.

Let me state that with maybe a little less perfect certainty.

No, wait... THERE IS NO BIGFOOT.

There is, absolutely, utterly NO way there is megafauna in the continental U.S. with not a single shred of DNA, skeletal, scat, or other physical evidence of an actual animal. NOT b.s. tracks. Not nebulous sightings. Show me a corpse, a skeleton, a pile of crap, ANYTHING.

But no one has. Because no one CAN. Those that have made the claim have repeatedly been proven to be lying.
http://nypost.com/2013/10/20/bigfoot-doesnt-exist-but-sometimes-i-wish-he-did/

Because it does not exist.

And if I'm ever actually proven wrong, I'll eat my hat.

Cryptozoology is all well and good, and animals ARE occasionally found that were either previously thought extinct or (much more often) sort of 'hiding in plain sight', like subspecies mistaken for near cousins. AND these are usually small animals, usually nocturnal, usually arboreal, in small pockets in extremely isolated areas.

The Olinguito was a HUGE discovery, because it was a whopping 2 pound mammal, and finding a new mammal species of that size is staggeringly rare.
http://www.sci-news.com/biology/science-olinguito-new-species-colombia-ecuador-01317.html

It drives me to a state of raw fury that ACTUAL scientific exploration and research is replaced on TV with entire series dedicated to finding something that is essentially a scam.

But hey, I guess it gets ratings, so let's press on with the nonsense.

Not that I have a strong feeling about this or anything.

[sticktodrum]

I'm with Lynn on this one. Cryptozoology is bunk as far as it's ever been demonstrated. Also... It seems there is a lot of misunderstanding here as to how evolution by natural selection works.

No Big Foot, no alien organisms who can travel from planets too far for us to see with everything we've developed to survey the cosmos, that appear momentarily and do nothing else.

It's all a scam, as Lynn stated, and it's permeated every channel that purports to be scientific.

You're better off watching the new Cosmos.

[Chako]

I have to agree with the two of you as well. Mind you, I don't mind watching a good crypto show for entertainment value. With that said, anyone ever watch "Finding Bigfoot". That show bothers me as these guys talk like they find them all over the place.

[ducttapetech]

You mean Bigfoot is not real?! I just saw it a few years ago crush some cars and tru.......ohhhhh that Bigfoot.


live from Nate's mobile

[Gareth]

OK, I can see the potential for this thread to go in a direction that could put some noses out of joint.  So lets just keep in mind that MT.org is a friendly place and keep this interesting discussion at least as friendly as it has been so far, all right?

[sticktodrum]

Indeed. And truth is the best expression of friendship.

[Lynn LeFey]

I'm sorry if my post came across as overly hostile. It wasn't my intent, but it really honestly makes me mad that channels that are supposedly there for good science show pseudoscience.

I consider it 'more harm than good', particularly when it's presented as reality. I'll get off my soapbox now, and let people have fun, instead of being the stick in the mud.

[ironraven]

While I"m inclined to agree that Bigfoot is unlikely, to state categorically that it is impossible... no. Lack of evidence is not evidence. Sightings of something by experienced woodsmen and indigenous peoples that are consistent with with those which have been made for hundreds of years, still not evidence. But it's a reason to keep an open mind, despite the charlatans and crazies and the half assing from certain TV programs, because there are oddities and inconsistancies with some of the "explanations". Most of the evidence isn't, but there is enough that you really can't just dismiss it even if isn't "professionally gathered evidence". People used to say that nothing smaller than atoms could exist (that is, once we believed that atoms could exist), that no life could exist that could not be seen and they certainly couldn't make you sick, there were no such things as coelacanths, okapi, mountain gorillas or komodo dragons (all large fauna historically dismissed but "found" by western science in the 20th century after the primative, backwards, ignorant natives who clearly couldn't know what they were talking about said "its there, whiteman"),  and rocks do not fall from the sky. All because there was no evidence to support the claims that defied "common sense".

I'd like to delude myself into thinking that we're past the point of trying to get Galileo burned at the stake for heresy, but science has become more about orthodoxy than discovery. And it's mostly politics and money and ego, the things that screw up humanity every time. So its just another self perpetuating cycle based on conclusions drawn from insufficient data, which I'd describe as "religious" even if there is no theology involved, and you get two camps screaming at each other.

But hey, if its easier to sleep at night with the simple psuedoscience of your particular belief, go for it. Compared to some of the whacky stuff people believe in and kill eachother over, sure, why not.

[Lynn LeFey]

Right. Well, have fun with the continued search. Just understand it's rightly classified as pseudoscience, and all's well.

Let me know if you or anyone else ever finds one. I'll have my hat set aside with some salt.

EDIT: And... to lighten the mood...

My first exposure the the bigfoot mythos in any serious way...

I loved 'In Search Of' when I was a kid. Leonard Nimoy has a voice that I could listen to while he reads a phone book.

[Chako]

Here are my thoughts on such matters.

Science is science. There is a rigorous process in place to weed out things that are not truthful or factual. This does not mean scientist get it right all the time. It does mean that most things published are reproducible and can be added to our growing body of knowledge.

Humans are all over the place. Everyone brings things from their upbringing, culture, etc. The opposite of science one could argue is religion, which is a faith based system. Many successful scientist are also religious. So we as humans can hold many interesting and varied beliefs from a pure science to a pure faith system, and quite often, we fall somewhere between these two extremes.

I for example, am a science teacher. I teach High School students on a daily basis. One would assume that I am not a big believer in things not overly scientific, and one could assume that to be correct. However, I had many paranormal experiences when growing up that couldn't be slotted away into what we know as easily explained. Science sure doesn't explain it, and yet, I saw and experienced things for multiple years, that I can't help but believe in some of the paranormal stuff. Thus, I can easily say that science is a great system, but it isn't perfect. There are things out there that science may not be properly equipped to quantify. You might argue that ghost investigators use tools and attempt scientific methods in their investigations all the time as seen in shown on TV. But if you look at it, it is mostly pseudoscience. These investigations never really fall into the realm of a controlled experiment.

And this is my biggest issue. A few years ago, Animal Planet showed a mocumentary on Mermaids. They created this piece of fantasy like a real documentary. It was anything but. However, many folks ate that stuff up. What got my goat, the next day, I was inundated with students telling me about how Mermaids are real etc. They of course did not believe me when I told them there was no such thing as Mermaids. How could I compete with something they saw on TV and looked real with realistic video. It is this sort of stupidity that seems to have creeped onto TV a lot lately, and people are eating this stuff up, and I have to wonder at what cost.

Finding Bigfoot is another show that bothers me, as either these guys are great actors or they are mostly certifiable crack pots. People who are less educated will eat this stuff up as being factual however, as the show portrays Big Foot as being out there, despite the lack of evidence. Can anyone explain why all we have are footprints? A creature so "hidden" should know not to leave track behind I think. 

People love to believe in something, and conspiracy theories, cryptids, Aliens, and ghost do make for something we can't easily explain away. Deep down in the human psyche, we just all love a good mystery.

[Syph007]

Im watching this bigfoot special now.  Seems pretty silly.  Les is not gaining status in my mind.  This silly show and that silly camillus MT.   

[captain spaulding]

Im watching this bigfoot special now.  Seems pretty silly.  Les is not gaining status in my mind.  This silly show and that silly camillus MT.   

Yea, hes not doing himself any favors. At least the Bigfoot thing is only a two episode series.

[Syph007]

Oh boy ya this is pretty bad.  His traveling companion is a lunatic.  I have no doubt he went and pushed those trees into the 'structures' before this was filmed.  Its like listening to a crazy person.  I would be afraid to hang out with this guy alone.

Apples and fruit disappearing! Wow.  I can show you garbage locked in a can that mysteriously is opened and stolen in my backyard semi nightly.. is that evidence of bigfoot?

[captain spaulding]

Oh boy ya this is pretty bad.  His traveling companion is a lunatic.  I have no doubt he went and pushed those trees into the 'structures' before this was filmed.  Its like listening to a crazy person.  I would be afraid to hang out with this guy alone.

Apples and fruit disappearing! Wow.  I can show you garbage locked in a can that mysteriously is opened and stolen in my backyard semi nightly.. is that evidence of bigfoot?

Apparently to the crazy guy Les is hanging out with, yes it is. 

[MadPlumbarian]

Im watching this bigfoot special now.  Seems pretty silly.  Les is not gaining status in my mind.  This silly show and that silly camillus MT.   

I'm with you on this one, don't get me wrong I'm a big Les fan, I also don't mind watching things on Bigfoot every once and while, but put the two of them together and it's boring has hell and started drifting off! JR