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Bit driver vs 3d phillips

ITGeek · 43 · 7262

us Offline ITGeek

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Bit driver vs 3d phillips
on: April 14, 2014, 04:55:47 PM
After spending some EDC time with a Rebar, I'm starting to question the usefulness of the LM bit driver.

When I EDC my Wave I either pocket carry with just the phillips/flat bit in the holder, or I sheath carry with a bit card and extender. With pocket carry of the rebar I have a 3d phillips and flat driver with better reach, and better prying capability. But if I sheath carry the rebar I can still carry a bit card and bit adapter to get the same capabilities as the wave.

This got me looking again at my OG Wave, which is similar in size to the Rebar. If the four flat drivers and phillips were replaced with the new bit adapter compatible phillips and a large flat driver/pry-tool, it would be a killer combination for me. It may still have room to add an awl and keep scissors and diamond file which are not on the rebar.

Does anyone else prefer the 3D phillips to a bit driver? Do you think there is a chance that LM would ever go back to a OHO Blade setup without a bit driver?


us Offline sawman

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #1 on: April 14, 2014, 05:02:15 PM
There's no telling what Leatherman will do. While I like the flat bits I also like the 3D Phillips on the Rebar. I've found that both work incredibly well. Don't ask me to choose because I can't :) The fact is though you can have the best of both worlds by using a 3D Phillips with LM bit adapter. :salute:
SAW


us Offline Random Dan

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #2 on: April 14, 2014, 05:08:36 PM
I'd honestly prefer the 3d phillips. I usually use the bit kit with my Vic ratchet anyway.
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gr Offline kkokkolis

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #3 on: April 14, 2014, 05:13:49 PM
3D and adapter for me


us Offline JAfromMn

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #4 on: April 14, 2014, 05:22:27 PM
I think both have there place. Sometimes I prefer the 3d sometimes I prefer the bit holder.

it depends on what I am up to.

I haven't tried the bit adaptor yet. I need to get one.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 05:24:14 PM by JAfromMn »
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us Offline ITGeek

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #5 on: April 14, 2014, 05:33:34 PM


I haven't tried the bit adaptor yet. I need to get one.

It would be a nice addition to Little Boy and the Fat man thread.  :)


00 Offline av8r1

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #6 on: April 14, 2014, 05:51:23 PM
The main problem I encounter when using a bit driver is recessed screws, especially those holding electronics together.  My Style CS file/driver works great on those. I like being able to customize my loadout for a particular activity or carry the whole bit kit for total versatility.  Problem is, I pocket carry the Skeletool and thus the bit kit doesn't really fit into my system very well.  I usually get along without it.

If I were to break it down, probably 50% of the fasteners I turn on an incidental basis are Phillips, 15% slot, 15% hex headed screws, 10% Allen, 10% torx.

If I had a tool that could reliably replace a wrench or socket set in my EDC loadout, I wouldn't see my toolbox much anymore.

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us Offline sawman

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #7 on: April 14, 2014, 05:57:52 PM
I only carry one bit card, leaving the second with the hex and torx at home. The LM sheath simply isn't designed to accommodate both, I wish it were.
SAW


us Offline Lynn LeFey

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #8 on: April 14, 2014, 06:08:38 PM
I only carry one bit card, leaving the second with the hex and torx at home. The LM sheath simply isn't designed to accommodate both, I wish it were.

I bet there's a Skinth that could handle it. :D   :pok:


us Offline sawman

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #9 on: April 14, 2014, 06:11:55 PM
I only carry one bit card, leaving the second with the hex and torx at home. The LM sheath simply isn't designed to accommodate both, I wish it were.

I bet there's a Skinth that could handle it. :D   :pok:
I like the LM sheath for the Rebar even though it only holds the 1 card, but I could use a Skinth for my MP600 to carry both cards and adapter along with it. Maybe even toss in a small torch.
SAW


us Offline sawman

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #10 on: April 14, 2014, 06:16:52 PM
I just looked at the Skinths and it seems they do not accommodate the MP600 needlenose tool :(
SAW


us Offline dnyc

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #11 on: April 14, 2014, 06:17:35 PM
I also prefer the 3-D philips head over the flat bit driver so I switched it out on my wave with one from a rebar. I did it because I liked having the use of all the flat bits of the bit kit but used the bits with either my topeak or victorinox ratchet.

I also got the leather charge sheath witch is just deep enough that when used with the thinner wave instead of the charge gives you just enough room to fit the second bit card in the sheath and you get the second elastic loop to store a small AAA light on the other side from the loop I store the wrench and bit extender.


us Offline ITGeek

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #12 on: April 14, 2014, 07:47:39 PM
Dnyc, i like the sound of your wave mod!

Does the lock  still work with the rebar phillips? Do you think the rebar awl could also replace the small bit driver?

I see a set of security torx bits as my next purchase.


gb Offline BigMatt

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #13 on: April 14, 2014, 07:55:32 PM
3D will always win. The main thing about the bit adapter is to have 20 torx and allen and other bits in your pocket. So ideally a 3D phillips for all the phillips screws and a bit adapter for a ocasional "weird" screw.


nl Offline bmot

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #14 on: April 14, 2014, 09:06:42 PM
I think the bits are more in the spirit of MT's, though, capable of a lot of stuff, but not mastering one... I prefer the versatility of the bit set personally, and I think for not-full 3d drivers, they actually are really quite good :)
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us Offline JAfromMn

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #15 on: April 14, 2014, 09:09:12 PM


I haven't tried the bit adaptor yet. I need to get one.

It would be a nice addition to Little Boy and the Fat man thread.  :)

You know what ITGeek

I think you may be right.
But
I don't think I have any room left in my skinith for it.
then again
it might be just the thing for the little boy kit in trying to make up for this summer.

I got to do some thinking.

Defend the Hive!!!


us Offline sawman

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #16 on: April 14, 2014, 09:11:49 PM


I haven't tried the bit adaptor yet. I need to get one.

It would be a nice addition to Little Boy and the Fat man thread.  :)

You know what ITGeek

I think you may be right.
But
I don't think I have any room left in my skinith for it.
then again
it might be just the thing for the little boy kit in trying to make up for this summer.

I got to do some thinking.
What can you do without from the Skinth to make room for the bit adapter and bit card? It may be worth it to drop a dedicated folder for it and use the MT's blade instead... Hmm.
SAW


us Offline JAfromMn

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #17 on: April 14, 2014, 09:24:47 PM


I haven't tried the bit adaptor yet. I need to get one.

It would be a nice addition to Little Boy and the Fat man thread.  :)

You know what ITGeek

I think you may be right.
But
I don't think I have any room left in my skinith for it.
then again
it might be just the thing for the little boy kit in trying to make up for this summer.

I got to do some thinking.
What can you do without from the Skinth to make room for the bit adapter and bit card? It may be worth it to drop a dedicated folder for it and use the MT's blade instead... Hmm.

I'm pretty happy with my fat man skinith setup the way it is.

I do think it would work awesome with my rebar kit.

I should be able to slid it in the sheath that came with it.

I just posted a topic for one in the tools wanted thread.

I need to get the rebar kit ready. Summer is coming fast.

Defend the Hive!!!


us Offline Breezy12

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #18 on: April 14, 2014, 10:32:04 PM
Dnyc, i like the sound of your wave mod!

Does the lock  still work with the rebar phillips? Do you think the rebar awl could also replace the small bit driver?

I see a set of security torx bits as my next purchase.

ITGeek -- yes, the Rebar tools fit nicely in the Wave/Charge, and the locks work as intended. :)

however, there will be some grinding/minor modifications required to allow the Wave/Charge to close fully. here's a pic of a Wave with Rebar drivers in the handles... notice the gap between the handles.


and here's a shot that shows a stock Rebar awl on top, and a Rebar awl that I put in a Wave and ground down to allow the Wave to close properly:


hope this helps!


us Offline ITGeek

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #19 on: April 14, 2014, 11:59:55 PM
Breezy, would the choice of rebar or wave plier head affect the ability to close fully?

Looks like it's time for me to start hanging out in the mods forum.


us Offline Breezy12

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #20 on: April 15, 2014, 01:38:41 AM
Breezy, would the choice of rebar or wave plier head affect the ability to close fully?

Looks like it's time for me to start hanging out in the mods forum.

maybe... but I'm pretty sure you'd have to do some grinding either way. the Wave in the first pic I posted has the Wave plier head in it; the awl in the second pic was ground down to fit in a Wave with the Rebar plier head.

I'm not sure if anyone has been able to get a Rebar Phillips driver into a Wave as just a straight drop-in without any modification (with either plier head).


us Offline Yaesu Man

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #21 on: April 15, 2014, 05:42:53 AM
I wouldn't really say that I prefer one over the other, but both definitely have their places.  I carried a Surge for several years, and found myself needing a 3D Phillips for recessed screws.  That's why I recently got a ST300 to pair with it.  Now I use the Phillips on the ST300 for recessed screws or screws that really need torquing down, and the Surge for stuff that requires more specialized bits.
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us Offline Craiger

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #22 on: April 15, 2014, 06:37:13 AM
I have both, across several LM tools. Versatility is the name of the game for me, so the flat bits can't be beat. Although I find I don't use it often, I EDC a coin purse with the full suite of flat bits. It rides light, flat and comfy, in a pocket that I normally never use anyway.

I rarely have to deal with recessed screws, but it seems like when I do, it isn't the same size as the ST300/Crunch phillips anyway so I still have to get a dedicated tool. The bit kit extender can also improve depth access in some situations. And for true diehards, the MUT bits will get you down deep.

Of course, a blend of your own past experiences and tool expectations will dictate what is right for you.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 06:39:01 AM by Craiger »


us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #23 on: April 15, 2014, 01:00:18 PM
I like the flat bit. And if I need a long driver, I use the Mutt bits.

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us Offline ITGeek

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #24 on: April 15, 2014, 04:27:24 PM
I see now  that carrying extra bits does not necessarily mean sheath or bag carry. my assumption was that if you are carrying extra flat bits you probably wouldn't mind carrying the bit adapter for the 3d phillips.
But the long mutt bits and the coin purse sound like pocket friendly carry methods for extra bits. 

After a bit more reading on MTO i also see that for anyone likely to see screw heads beyond phillips and slotted, like Canadians,  the bit holder would be superior to the 3d phillips, even for pocket carry.

That being said, i'd still love to see LM sell a tool with the rebar drivers, awl, and plier head and the wave outside tools.  I'm probably not looking to try my hand at modding one,after hearing how much grinding is needed.


gb Offline Cupboard

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #25 on: April 15, 2014, 09:10:08 PM
I like having both, so my Rebar does.


us Offline Craiger

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #26 on: April 16, 2014, 07:00:30 AM
The coin purse idea works really well for me. It's not obtrusive at all and doesn't make your sheath feel like a 90's cell phone hanging off your belt with all those bit cards jammed in there.

I took some inspirational photos for you. Well, inspirational to me at least  :whistle:

P1020738 by climbercraig66, on Flickr

P1020739 by climbercraig66, on Flickr

P1020741 by climbercraig66, on Flickr

P1020743 by climbercraig66, on Flickr


nz Offline RimfireNZ

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #27 on: April 16, 2014, 07:19:59 AM
After a bit more reading on MTO i also see that for anyone likely to see screw heads beyond phillips and slotted, like Canadians,  the bit holder would be superior to the 3d phillips, even for pocket carry.

I use phillips a lot, but semi regularly come across square drive and torx and others. Even so I prefer the 3d phillips because it's better at its job than the 2d counterpart. I always wonder just how much my Wave'll take before it snaps that little driver holder. It's only thin metal.

Plus carrying the 1.5" (or whatever it is) adapter isn't really a problem as it rides with my bit kit all the time anyway since I never know what LM I'll have on me day to day. I can still use the bits regardless so it doesn't bother me much.


us Offline Craiger

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #28 on: April 16, 2014, 07:23:37 AM
I would also add that the flat bit extender can be a nice stand-alone tool on low-torque screws, whereas I rarely carry my 3D adapter and wouldn't find it useful for anything other than its intended use.

Additionally, I would not carry any MUT bits or adapters in my coin purse; I think they would all be too long or too thick.


00 Offline av8r1

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Re: Bit driver vs 3d phillips
Reply #29 on: April 16, 2014, 11:04:00 AM
When comparing screwdrivers, especially the very commonly used Phillips bits, I see a number of performance factors.

Size range.  Phillips bits don't have to be the perfect size to fit the fastener the way Allen and Torx do, so one bit will fit a number of sizes.  I've seldom had a problem with this using multitools.

Torque limits.  The nature of the driver tip puts a practical limit on the torque that can be applied.  True 2D drivers like that found in the Micra doesn't "index" in the screw head, so it wants to "hinge" out of the screw head.  That and it will apply torque to only some of the grooves in the screw head and is more likely to strip the screw out under load.  "Squished" drivers like the Wingman index and grip the head better, and can apply more torque.  Full size drivers like the Juice line and the Rebar are better still.

Shank length.  This gives knuckle clearance to the work surface and the ability to turn recessed screws.  Of course, the usefulness of this metric is related to

Shank width.  The Wingman has a nice, long Phillips driver, but the shank is so wide that it won't go into screw recesses.  This is a problem with any bit set, because the bits are usually 1/4" in at least one dimension and must be set into a driver that's wider than that.  However, sometimes you want a short driver to reach a screw in a crevice. A partially-opened Juice might serve in that capacity.

Variety of sizes/types.  Multis with fixed drivers almost always have one Phillips driver and at least one slot driver, usually several.  Tools with bit drivers are usually compatible with a wide variety of bits--Leatherman has their proprietary bits, almost every other company uses standard 1/4" bits or other standard hex sizes.  They usually come with a +/- bit, others can be purchased separately.

These factors effect the ability to fit whatever fastener you must turn, the ability to reach it, and the ability to provide adequate torque without damaging the fastener or camming out.

How about this:  Take the Charge AL, scrap the flat blade and tiny driver, and replace with the Phillips from the Rebar. Phillips screws are so common that a dedicated, low compromise driver is worth it, leaving the bit driver to handle all the "strange" stuff.  One bit card with metric allens, torx, a couple slot drivers and that #3/#0 Phillips bit would get you through basically anything.  I'd probably package it with the full bit kit anyway though.
My EDC:
Leatherman Skeletool   Led Lenser P3 AFS P
Leatherman Style CS    "Fauxton"
Sharpie Twin Tip           Bic Mini


 

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