Leatherman quality control.

[Syncop8r]

My scissors are like that too, maybe they all are.
Am I bothered?
No. It's a tool, not jewellery.

[AimlessWanderer]

Biggest quality issue I had was with my Surge, it really looks and feels like an unfinished tool.

Scratched up pliers
Unfinished frame and scissors (look at that spine, its very rough).

Scissors need to be forced to close.

Took those pictures, when it freshly arrived.

My scissors are like that too, maybe they all are.
Am I bothered?
No. It's a tool, not jewellery.

Roughly finished, or need to be forced to close?

[ducttapetech]

Not sure by what ES means buy forced closed? Is it hitting the frame? The outside tools and blades on the Surge have to be force closed because they are liner locks.

Nate
That's us mobile

[Syncop8r]

Biggest quality issue I had was with my Surge, it really looks and feels like an unfinished tool.

Scratched up pliers
Unfinished frame and scissors (look at that spine, its very rough).

Scissors need to be forced to close.

Took those pictures, when it freshly arrived.

My scissors are like that too, maybe they all are.
Am I bothered?
No. It's a tool, not jewellery.

Roughly finished, or need to be forced to close?

Rough along the edge. Not sharp, just rough.

[Syph007]

The first wave I had was so sharp on an inner edge it would routinely draw blood!

I still like the old leathermans better.  They were slimmer and you could pocket carry a PST not need a sheath.  Making a PST has to cost less than making a wave... I still think it woudl sell if they brought it back and called it the classic.. really play up the origins of the company etc.  And do whatever updates make sense like rolling the edges for less hand pain.

Or maybe I like them because I cant buy them?  Does low supply create the demand?  I buy up any mini tool I can find for a decent price... 

[ToolJoe]

I have never had any quality issues with Leatherman. Even the Wingman I briefly had was of decent quality. I've never had any issues with Vics either.

[sawman]

While we're at it, let's talk about price. LM charges TOP TOP TOP dollar for their tools. I try to be a good little capitalist individual but their practices are almost making me for price controls... 

[ducttapetech]

Huh? $80 for a BO Surge or $40 for a Rebar. That does not seem high to me.

Nate
That's us mobile

[anditsgone]

In the Netherlands the leatherman charge tti goes on retail for 199 euros.
That is way too much.
Most shops do give a big discount on the tools.
But Victorinox is priced way better.
Leatherman MUT goes for 209 Euro.

If it was a perfect tool that was hand assembled and examined at quality control and uses high end steels for blade and scissors it would probably be worth it.
But i think 60 euros is a more decent price-quality for the wave.

In comparison the Vic spirit goes for 99 euros.
I think 80 Euro would be better for that one.

[sawman]

I don't know where you get your prices, but a lot of places charge retail which is too high for an unchecked tool*

I think it's absolutely appalling that LM is selling for such high prices overseas where the poor customer is likely to get a poor/bad tool. Down right dispickable if you ask me.

Furthermore, if they put half as much effort into ensuring a proper tool as they do into making sure none-shall-enter their theft-proof packing, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


* unchecked tool - a tool with no QC or oversite before going on to packaging.

[Etherealicer]

Not sure by what ES means buy forced closed? Is it hitting the frame? The outside tools and blades on the Surge have to be force closed because they are liner locks.

Nate
That's us mobile

The scissors catches on the hinge of the lock for the inner tool, so I have to push it to the outside in order to close it completely.

My scissors are like that too, maybe they all are.
Am I bothered?
No. It's a tool, not jewellery.

Agreed but it just adds to the unfinished feel of the tool. I think its the sum of it all. Scissors need extra work to close. Main blade is not OHO as the lock needs force to engage (actually, the scissor lock is the same). Thumb-hole are sharp enough to ruin thin gloves, the serrated blade has side-to-side play etc... It overall feels like a rush job, done with very little care.

Sure, some of these problems can be cured easily, but I didn't buy from IKEA, I want a finished product.

[anditsgone]

I don't know where you get your prices, but a lot of places charge retail which is too high for an unchecked tool*

I think it's absolutely appalling that LM is selling for such high prices overseas where the poor customer is likely to get a poor/bad tool. Down right dispickable if you ask me.

Furthermore, if they put half as much effort into ensuring a proper tool as they do into making sure none-shall-enter their theft-proof packing, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


* unchecked tool - a tool with no QC or oversite before going on to packaging.

Here in Europe we are jelous on the U.S. prices.they are much lower and most of the time almost half the eu prices.
As i said most shops offer a permanent discount but then it is still 150 euros at the cheapest shop.

[Lynn LeFey]

I've had a LOT of Leatherman tools come and go over the last few years. I have to be honest in saying that if there's a drop in quality, it's not great enough for me to have noticed as an absolute. I have wondered if they'e started decreasing fit-and-finish but I've seen zero decrease in function. The only thing i think I can say for certain are more pronounced stamping marks (I'm thinking here specifically on the Wingman/Sidekicks).

I had one blade on one side of one of the Waves I had that was a little tight. I've had as many issues with the Vics I've gotten in the same timespan.

I'm not saying that Leatherman's FnF is anywhere near as good as Victorinox. It's not. But it NEVER was. The second thing, I have to wonder if the older tools aren't so much better in FnF as they're just broken in. I don't know. And I suspect it'd take getting several hundred both used and new tools for comparison as a reasonable sampling, and as the meme goes 'ain't nobody got time fo that!'

I don't have a horse in this argument. While my most preferred full size MT is a Wave, it's so close in performance (in different ways) to a Spirit, that I can completely understand someone picking the Spirit instead. I like SAKs. I like Keychain Leatherman tools.

I WILL say this: It is a BIG f'ing drop from Leatherman to the next lower company's quality, which I'd solidly give to Gerber. I've now had a handful of new Gerber tools that were KILLER hard to open when new. Nail-busting, and I have ridiculously strong nails. My BG Strata and Dime both had this.

The gap from Leatherman to Victorinox seems to me to be one of aesthetics. The drop from Leatherman to Gerber is functional.

The drop from Gerber to ... I guess SOG?... from functioning less well to simply sucking.

I would put one Gerber tool/line at maybe above Leatherman's bottom end. The MP4XX/MP6XX. For some reason, regardless of FnF that is abysmal, those things (maybe because of lots of tolerance) just... work. Like they gave up all pretense of precision for brute function.

I'm not saying that I'm certain that Leatherman QC isn't suffering. I'm saying I've not seen it yet, and AM keeping an eye on it.

[BASguy]

I don't know where you get your prices, but a lot of places charge retail which is too high for an unchecked tool*

I think it's absolutely appalling that LM is selling for such high prices overseas where the poor customer is likely to get a poor/bad tool. Down right dispickable if you ask me.

Furthermore, if they put half as much effort into ensuring a proper tool as they do into making sure none-shall-enter their theft-proof packing, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


* unchecked tool - a tool with no QC or oversite before going on to packaging.

I just can't see the sense in ordering a NIP Leatherman product anymore.  It's a gamble you will get a tool you're satisfied with.  I'm not sure their prices are high, but it's absolutely clear their quality is diminished, so arguing that point is almost nonsense anymore.  I will say that if the $120 MSRP on their new toy whistle is an indicator, they are clearly headed in the wrong direction with their foot on the gas......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Demel]

I don't know where you get your prices, but a lot of places charge retail which is too high for an unchecked tool*

I think it's absolutely appalling that LM is selling for such high prices overseas where the poor customer is likely to get a poor/bad tool. Down right dispickable if you ask me.

Furthermore, if they put half as much effort into ensuring a proper tool as they do into making sure none-shall-enter their theft-proof packing, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


* unchecked tool - a tool with no QC or oversite before going on to packaging.

I just can't see the sense in ordering a NIP Leatherman product anymore.  It's a gamble you will get a tool you're satisfied with.  I'm not sure their prices are high, but it's absolutely clear their quality is diminished, so arguing that point is almost nonsense anymore.  I will say that if the $120 MSRP on their new toy whistle is an indicator, they are clearly headed in the wrong direction with their foot on the gas......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are overpriced. $50 for a skeletool, $90 for a wave where I'm at. To me that's a bit much. Although the rebar is available for 55 which is nice. As far as quality control goes I don't like them giving refurbed tools for warranty. Sent some tools to Gerber and they sent nib tools back to me. I got two bad waves from LM and decided it wasn't worth sending one in for a third. I agree with lynn, Leatherman is a few steps behind Victorinox in the qc department, but they are ahead of their competitors in terms of options.

[captain spaulding]

I don't know where you get your prices, but a lot of places charge retail which is too high for an unchecked tool*

I think it's absolutely appalling that LM is selling for such high prices overseas where the poor customer is likely to get a poor/bad tool. Down right dispickable if you ask me.

Furthermore, if they put half as much effort into ensuring a proper tool as they do into making sure none-shall-enter their theft-proof packing, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


* unchecked tool - a tool with no QC or oversite before going on to packaging.

I just can't see the sense in ordering a NIP Leatherman product anymore.  It's a gamble you will get a tool you're satisfied with.  I'm not sure their prices are high, but it's absolutely clear their quality is diminished, so arguing that point is almost nonsense anymore.  I will say that if the $120 MSRP on their new toy whistle is an indicator, they are clearly headed in the wrong direction with their foot on the gas......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are overpriced. $50 for a skeletool, $90 for a wave where I'm at. To me that's a bit much. Although the rebar is available for 55 which is nice. As far as quality control goes I don't like them giving refurbed tools for warranty. Sent some tools to Gerber and they sent nib tools back to me. I got two bad waves from LM and decided it wasn't worth sending one in for a third. I agree with lynn, Leatherman is a few steps behind Victorinox in the qc department, but they are ahead of their competitors in terms of options.

I would not pay $55 for a Rebar. I know the overseas members would love a Rebar for $55, but when they came out they were $35-$40. Waves used to be $55-$60 on Amazon all day. Cheaper if they were on sale.

[Demel]

I don't know where you get your prices, but a lot of places charge retail which is too high for an unchecked tool*

I think it's absolutely appalling that LM is selling for such high prices overseas where the poor customer is likely to get a poor/bad tool. Down right dispickable if you ask me.

Furthermore, if they put half as much effort into ensuring a proper tool as they do into making sure none-shall-enter their theft-proof packing, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


* unchecked tool - a tool with no QC or oversite before going on to packaging.

I just can't see the sense in ordering a NIP Leatherman product anymore.  It's a gamble you will get a tool you're satisfied with.  I'm not sure their prices are high, but it's absolutely clear their quality is diminished, so arguing that point is almost nonsense anymore.  I will say that if the $120 MSRP on their new toy whistle is an indicator, they are clearly headed in the wrong direction with their foot on the gas......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are overpriced. $50 for a skeletool, $90 for a wave where I'm at. To me that's a bit much. Although the rebar is available for 55 which is nice. As far as quality control goes I don't like them giving refurbed tools for warranty. Sent some tools to Gerber and they sent nib tools back to me. I got two bad waves from LM and decided it wasn't worth sending one in for a third. I agree with lynn, Leatherman is a few steps behind Victorinox in the qc department, but they are ahead of their competitors in terms of options.

I would not pay $55 for a Rebar. I know the overseas members would love a Rebar for $55, but when they came out they were $35-$40. Waves used to be $55-$60 on Amazon all day. Cheaper if they were on sale.

I didn't know they were that cheap. What is driving their prices up? How much is a rebar in the uk?

[captain spaulding]

I don't know where you get your prices, but a lot of places charge retail which is too high for an unchecked tool*

I think it's absolutely appalling that LM is selling for such high prices overseas where the poor customer is likely to get a poor/bad tool. Down right dispickable if you ask me.

Furthermore, if they put half as much effort into ensuring a proper tool as they do into making sure none-shall-enter their theft-proof packing, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


* unchecked tool - a tool with no QC or oversite before going on to packaging.

I just can't see the sense in ordering a NIP Leatherman product anymore.  It's a gamble you will get a tool you're satisfied with.  I'm not sure their prices are high, but it's absolutely clear their quality is diminished, so arguing that point is almost nonsense anymore.  I will say that if the $120 MSRP on their new toy whistle is an indicator, they are clearly headed in the wrong direction with their foot on the gas......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are overpriced. $50 for a skeletool, $90 for a wave where I'm at. To me that's a bit much. Although the rebar is available for 55 which is nice. As far as quality control goes I don't like them giving refurbed tools for warranty. Sent some tools to Gerber and they sent nib tools back to me. I got two bad waves from LM and decided it wasn't worth sending one in for a third. I agree with lynn, Leatherman is a few steps behind Victorinox in the qc department, but they are ahead of their competitors in terms of options.

I would not pay $55 for a Rebar. I know the overseas members would love a Rebar for $55, but when they came out they were $35-$40. Waves used to be $55-$60 on Amazon all day. Cheaper if they were on sale.

I didn't know they were that cheap. What is driving their prices up? How much is a rebar in the uk?

Probably Leatherman losing money on their other models that don't sell well so they have to make it up by reaching in your pocket. 

In all seriousness i'm not sure.

[Demel]

I don't know where you get your prices, but a lot of places charge retail which is too high for an unchecked tool*

I think it's absolutely appalling that LM is selling for such high prices overseas where the poor customer is likely to get a poor/bad tool. Down right dispickable if you ask me.

Furthermore, if they put half as much effort into ensuring a proper tool as they do into making sure none-shall-enter their theft-proof packing, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


* unchecked tool - a tool with no QC or oversite before going on to packaging.

I just can't see the sense in ordering a NIP Leatherman product anymore.  It's a gamble you will get a tool you're satisfied with.  I'm not sure their prices are high, but it's absolutely clear their quality is diminished, so arguing that point is almost nonsense anymore.  I will say that if the $120 MSRP on their new toy whistle is an indicator, they are clearly headed in the wrong direction with their foot on the gas......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are overpriced. $50 for a skeletool, $90 for a wave where I'm at. To me that's a bit much. Although the rebar is available for 55 which is nice. As far as quality control goes I don't like them giving refurbed tools for warranty. Sent some tools to Gerber and they sent nib tools back to me. I got two bad waves from LM and decided it wasn't worth sending one in for a third. I agree with lynn, Leatherman is a few steps behind Victorinox in the qc department, but they are ahead of their competitors in terms of options.

I would not pay $55 for a Rebar. I know the overseas members would love a Rebar for $55, but when they came out they were $35-$40. Waves used to be $55-$60 on Amazon all day. Cheaper if they were on sale.

I didn't know they were that cheap. What is driving their prices up? How much is a rebar in the uk?

Probably Leatherman losing money on their other models that don't sell well so they have to make it up by reaching in your pocket. 

In all seriousness i'm not sure.

Who knows...they could always outsource production to mars. They are trying to reach new markets.

[BASguy]

I just don't think (here in the land of the free anyway) that Leatherman is to overpriced on their tools, it's just that the prices have risen in recent years almost in proportion to the decline in quality. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[captain spaulding]

I just don't think (here in the land of the free anyway) that Leatherman is to overpriced on their tools, it's just that the prices have risen in recent years almost in proportion to the decline in quality. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's the thing that really gets me. The quality declining while the price is rising. Makes me feel like I am getting shafted six ways from Sunday. Its not like the prices rose slightly either. $60 to $90 for a Wave is substantial. That's roughly a 30% or more increase (I think). I never was great at math.   

[Lynn LeFey]

I was about to say "The Wave doesn't cost $90."

But, my benchmark price for it, at Home Depot, yep. Wow. When the smurf did THAT happen?

I guess that shows how close i pay attention to retail prices of full size tools. 

[captain spaulding]

I was about to say "The Wave doesn't cost $90."

But, my benchmark price for it, at Home Depot, yep. Wow. When the smurf did THAT happen?

I guess that shows how close i pay attention to retail prices of full size tools. 

All of the Waves on Amazon are $90 as well. Kind of crazy. 

[dks]

Here are some, cheap for me, prices from Austria, in some regular shops.

In many ways, with the dollar getting stronger, these prices may not appear as high, to US members as they actually are or "feel" to us lot.

[tosh]

A very interesting thread...

I think there is a fine line between  trying new ideas and blatantly cost cutting.
I agree whole heartedly that the early LM's were something special. But I also think some of the later ideas....MUT, OHT should be applauded too.

However, there is no denying that the overall quality has gone drastically downhill and it really does seem to be since Tim Leatherman left the driving seat.

Hopefully when sales begin to fall on LM's new stuff maybe then Leatherman will realise their mistake.

Personally I couldn't care less, if they (Leatherman) or indeed any of the MT/SAK manufacturers want to churn out crap, then churn it out!!
I don't have to buy it......and I won't!!

[anditsgone]

A very interesting thread...

I think there is a fine line between  trying new ideas and blatantly cost cutting.
I agree whole heartedly that the early LM's were something special. But I also think some of the later ideas....MUT, OHT should be applauded too.

However, there is no denying that the overall quality has gone drastically downhill and it really does seem to be since Tim Leatherman left the driving seat.

Hopefully when sales begin to fall on LM's new stuff maybe then Leatherman will realise their mistake.

Personally I couldn't care less, if they (Leatherman) or indeed any of the MT/SAK manufacturers want to churn out crap, then churn it out!!
I don't have to buy it......and I won't!!

I don't care about the other the sport multi tools either. But i do think this idea will cost lm money. No skater will buy one. And it is too expensive.
It is the same with the MUT.
But i can see that the raptor is a good idea.

Probably the reason why Vic doesn't make that kind of mt or saks.
I like the idea of don't have allot of options, but the options you have are prefect assembled and flawless qc over the loads of options but all poor quality.

Dump all the BS MT s and focus on perfecting the wave and Supertool.

[sawman]

I found a perfect word to describe LM.

INCONSISTENT.

They will produce a complete work of genius like the Raptor, then turn around and produce the Rev which takes away the OHO and gives you a smurfty tool. And what's up with the watch tool (I forget right off what it's called) with the bracelet of bits. REDICULOUS!!!

[anditsgone]

I found a perfect word to describe LM.

INCONSISTENT.

They will produce a complete work of genius like the Raptor, then turn around and produce the Rev which takes away the OHO and gives you a smurfty tool. And what's up with the watch tool (I forget right off what it's called) with the bracelet of bits. REDICULOUS!!!

I think we are looking at a company that is trying to make more profit.
Tim leatherman idea was create good and affordable product, and create a good working environment and sustainable jobs.
And at the end cover all the costs.
Basically non-profit minded.

Now we are throwing out the good affordable tools idea, and get more profit.
We are getting crapy quality tools, the workers at leatherman will probably not get an higher salary. But the management will get a better salary.

[sawman]

I found a perfect word to describe LM.

INCONSISTENT.

They will produce a complete work of genius like the Raptor, then turn around and produce the Rev which takes away the OHO and gives you a smurfty tool. And what's up with the watch tool (I forget right off what it's called) with the bracelet of bits. REDICULOUS!!!

I think we are looking at a company that is trying to make more profit.
Tim leatherman idea was create good and affordable product, and create a good working environment and sustainable jobs.
And at the end cover all the costs.
Basically non-profit minded.

Now we are throwing out the good affordable tools idea, and get more profit.
We are getting crapy quality tools, the workers at leatherman will probably not get an higher salary. But the management will get a better salary.

If I didn't care about the future of LM, I suppose I wouldn't get so worked up about it. I sincerely hope they can get back on track. I love some of their products and don't want to see them go out of business.

[anditsgone]

I found a perfect word to describe LM.

INCONSISTENT.

They will produce a complete work of genius like the Raptor, then turn around and produce the Rev which takes away the OHO and gives you a smurfty tool. And what's up with the watch tool (I forget right off what it's called) with the bracelet of bits. REDICULOUS!!!

I think we are looking at a company that is trying to make more profit.
Tim leatherman idea was create good and affordable product, and create a good working environment and sustainable jobs.
And at the end cover all the costs.
Basically non-profit minded.

Now we are throwing out the good affordable tools idea, and get more profit.
We are getting crapy quality tools, the workers at leatherman will probably not get an higher salary. But the management will get a better salary.

If I didn't care about the future of LM, I suppose I wouldn't get so worked up about it. I sincerely hope they can get back on track. I love some of their products and don't want to see them go out of business.

I stand behind you.
I hate that i can not support and recommend a company that i love.