anyone broken the law ?

[jerseydevil]

Once, in my younger, wilder, and considerably less sober years  , I was, shall we say, "detained" by police in the next town over from where I grew up.  Clipped to my pocket like it always at the time was my Kershaw Scallion.  Cops must have spent twenty minutes playing with the damn thing, and when I was ROR a short time later it was handed back to me with the comment, "That's a very cool little knife.  I'm going to get myself one."  NJ is a state known for crazy laws in many cases (we can't even pump our own gas!), but in terms of legal knife carry it's actually pretty liberal.  If you're not acting like an idiot just about anything except for an automatic or balisong is legal carry in your pocket, and a fixed blade on your hip while going hiking, fishing, etc is not a big deal really.  I know a guy who for years has carried a Buck 110 in a sheath on his belt everywhere he goes.  He's never had an issue.  My Endura sees a lot of carry time, and the only time I was ever questioned about it was when a cop saw the clip while I was in the local deli, and he specifically asked me what Spyderco I was carrying.  I told him, he nodded, and that was that.

In terms of any other alleged breaking of laws, I'm taking the 5th...... 

[nate j]

so would/do you carry a 'non-legal' tool ?

Not knowingly, as it isn't worth the potential hassle IMO.  Of course, here in central PA, I can carry pretty much anything I please, except for daggers and autos.

When traveling though, especially in states without knife law preemption, checking the ordinances of every city, county, or other municipality one may pass through simply may not be practical.  This is one of the reasons I prefer to carry everything concealed...

[J Mackrel Jones]

"In 2010 your author found it necessary to pay a visit to a government office in downtown Denver; the lady at the information desk told him the office was on the fourteenth floor. After getting off the elevator he was told that the office he wanted was actually on the 13th floor. Taking the stairs down one flight he found that the stairwell door was locked. There was a large gap between the steel door and its steel frame so he took out his EDC SAK and used the nail file to slip the latch and gain entry to the desired floor. While filling out paperwork he suddenly found an armed guard at his side who asked “Did you just come through that door?”, indicating the door to the stairs. The innocent citizen admitted that he had. The guard said “That door is supposed to be locked” but stiffly accepted that the door had perhaps not been fully latched. As the guard examined the latch the accidental miscreant realized that he had almost been arrested for Escape From Thirteenth Floor Stairwell."
from The SAK Owner's Manual
The writer is one of us - hassled in this situation not for the nature of the tool  but for the use of one.

[Essexman]

so would/do you carry a 'non-legal' tool ?
I too, don't get 'frisked' so I could EDG whatever took my fancy without much issue.
I did once pull something (handkerchief) from my jeans and drop a Byrd Tern (cheaper version of the UKPK built and designed to be legal in the UK) and the horror in some peoples face was amazing 
I was in the supermarket, NOT a courtroom, and I was only blowing my nose

Don't get so hug up on legal/non legal tool/knife. Either you have the reason to carry it or you don't. Yes I have carried a locker from time to time, but you have to take everything into consideration.
For example if I was going on the tube into London = small SAK. If I'm going round a friends for the evening and walking his dog= locker (reason: dog gets caught up in plants etc when walking and needs cutting out, ma lord)

I carry a knife every day at work, I always get someone tell me "you could be arrested for having that!" It's happened so many times I'm bored of explaining to people what's what. So now I just give them my phone and tell them to call the police. Never happened yet.......

[bmot]

It's almost funny, but actually, Dutch laws on knives are quite liberal So I don't think I've ever broken one.


As long as it's not automatic, a balisong, a dagger or is really large, I can legally carry it 


Also, I never seen really shocked reactions to me carrying a knife, as been reported by other members. The most I heard from people is surprise I'm carrying a knife. Maybe we Dutchies are just more laid back or something

[Rux]

It's almost funny, but actually, Dutch laws on knives are quite liberal So I don't think I've ever broken one.


As long as it's not automatic, a balisong, a dagger or is really large, I can legally carry it 


Also, I never seen really shocked reactions to me carrying a knife, as been reported by other members. The most I heard from people is surprise I'm carrying a knife. Maybe we Dutchies are just more laid back or something

In the US it varies state to state. California or New York have stricter laws but Florida is pretty lax for the most part. Autos and balisongs are legal as long as they're open carry and visible.

Although despite the law you might still be at the mercy of the LEO's lack of knowledge of laws and/or the circumstances you are carrying it.

[Medic82]

If I am braking a knife law really depends on the LEO that would be stopping me if I where to carry a knife. In Norway it is against the law to carry a knife unless you have an honorable reason for carrying one. The law does no say what is considered an honorable reason so it really is up to the LEO for making that judgment and as far as I know no one have ever taken it to court so we do not have a court ruling for what is a precedence for a honorable reason.

I carry and use almost daily my SOG Flash II both on and off work and to be honest, I really am not sure what will happen if I ever am stopped by the police.

Many years ago I was stopped by the police in a control area they had set up on a subway station in Oslo where they stopped and frisked everyone going in and out of the station, I had a Powerlock on my hip and we had a little discussion if a MT was considered a knife or a tool and what was an honorable reason for carrying. Nothing happened to me and I got to keep my MT since I was not the type of person they where after that day. So am I braking law? I really have no idea.

[Taxi Dad]

If I am braking a knife law really depends on the LEO that would be stopping me if I where to carry a knife. In Norway it is against the law to carry a knife unless you have an honorable reason for carrying one. The law does no say what is considered an honorable reason so it really is up to the LEO for making that judgment and as far as I know no one have ever taken it to court so we do not have a court ruling for what is a precedence for a honorable reason.

I carry and use almost daily my SOG Flash II both on and off work and to be honest, I really am not sure what will happen if I ever am stopped by the police.

Many years ago I was stopped by the police in a control area they had set up on a subway station in Oslo where they stopped and frisked everyone going in and out of the station, I had a Powerlock on my hip and we had a little discussion if a MT was considered a knife or a tool and what was an honorable reason for carrying. Nothing happened to me and I got to keep my MT since I was not the type of person they where after that day. So am I braking law? I really have no idea.

that's interesting, if you'd have been here in the UK I doubt you'd still own that Powerlock 

[jzmtl]

There's a city bylaw in Montreal that says any knife other than a SAK would be illegal to carry. But a cop on a forum wrote it's meant for gangbangers and they won't bother regular people with it.

Never bothered to look it up, but if it's true I've been breaking the law almost everyday for the past 10 years. 

Oy...

I'm in a fairly communist state (Maryland) so they get pretty anal and uptight about non-PC life.  We almost always target shoot on the farm.  We decided to go to an indoor range last winter.  Everything is locked in the trunk as per the law. Guns are unloaded.  As per law. 

We walk into the range and declare what weapons we have and that we have our own ammo.  They want to check.  I unlock and open the ammo box and the guy says,

"That loaded magazine is a felony offense in Maryland.  You better unload that before anyone else sees it."

Locked in a box.  Separate from the weapon which is locked in a separate box.  Both stored locked in the trunk.  And it's a felony offense. 

Ever thought about starting a referendum to rename the state Kanadaland? But I think we can still one up you on ridiculous gun laws.

[Mr. Whippy]

There's a city bylaw in Montreal that says any knife other than a SAK would be illegal to carry. But a cop on a forum wrote it's meant for gangbangers and they won't bother regular people with it.

Never bothered to look it up, but if it's true I've been breaking the law almost everyday for the past 10 years. 

Oy...

I'm in a fairly communist state (Maryland) so they get pretty anal and uptight about non-PC life.  We almost always target shoot on the farm.  We decided to go to an indoor range last winter.  Everything is locked in the trunk as per the law. Guns are unloaded.  As per law. 

We walk into the range and declare what weapons we have and that we have our own ammo.  They want to check.  I unlock and open the ammo box and the guy says,

"That loaded magazine is a felony offense in Maryland.  You better unload that before anyone else sees it."

Locked in a box.  Separate from the weapon which is locked in a separate box.  Both stored locked in the trunk.  And it's a felony offense. 

Ever thought about starting a referendum to rename the state Kanadaland? But I think we can still one up you on ridiculous gun laws.

Actually, the leading political thinkers would love to rename it, "MoreOverTheTopThanMassachusettsLand". 

But let's not go down THAT unpleasant politcal road. 

[Essexman]

that's interesting, if you'd have been here in the UK I doubt you'd still own that Powerlock 

Why ?  Show me a case to back up that statement please? I real life case where a middle aged man was arrested and taken to court for walking down the street with a locking MT in his pocket.

 Yes I know the UK law says "no locker unless you have good cause etc etc" Sorry if  I sound harsh, but really ? Do you know anyone who has had an experience like that in the UK? Or are you saying what you think would happen because of what you read in the media/press?

 Be honest in your answer.

[Medic82]

Oy...

I'm in a fairly communist state (Maryland) so they get pretty anal and uptight about non-PC life.  We almost always target shoot on the farm.  We decided to go to an indoor range last winter.  Everything is locked in the trunk as per the law. Guns are unloaded.  As per law. 

We walk into the range and declare what weapons we have and that we have our own ammo.  They want to check.  I unlock and open the ammo box and the guy says,

"That loaded magazine is a felony offense in Maryland.  You better unload that before anyone else sees it."

Locked in a box.  Separate from the weapon which is locked in a separate box.  Both stored locked in the trunk.  And it's a felony offense. 

Damned bro.... We don't even have that strickt laws in Norway. I always have at least 2 fully loaded magazines going to and from the range, but I have to carry them in a gun case.

[Taxi Dad]

that's interesting, if you'd have been here in the UK I doubt you'd still own that Powerlock 

Why ?  Show me a case to back up that statement please? I real life case where a middle aged man was arrested and taken to court for walking down the street with a locking MT in his pocket.

 Yes I know the UK law says "no locker unless you have good cause etc etc" Sorry if  I sound harsh, but really ? Do you know anyone who has had an experience like that in the UK? Or are you saying what you think would happen because of what you read in the media/press?

 Be honest in your answer.

I started this thread to hear of such stories. Apart from people from here that I have met in the 3d world, I've met few people who DO carry a 'knife' (probably due to the bad press) other than a couple of old guys that had SAKs and one or two totally mad idiots that should be locked up anyway, they had mostly 'kitchen' knives for *protection*.
I've never been 'stopped' and searched, mainly because I don't go far. on the few occasions I have 'emptied my pockets' I had a suspicion it was coming (visiting court/airports etc.) so I had removed EVERYTHING even remotely controversial   
as I've said before I do carry locking blades. I can't see me getting searched while doing my weekly shop. I don't often get call for a pair of pliers either while waiting at the checkout  so do I 'need' to carry it ?
the answer is probably "no....I don't need to" but I do and I'm not sure if I'd be able to explain it to 'Mr Plod' or a local magistrate 
I may be getting a bit off track here and going over old ground, so back to your question  Essexman ~
No I have no evidence to back up my theory ! BUT I have experience, first hand, of how the Birtish police react and ignore common sense in some situations.
so I believe that if someone was to be stopped in a railway station, by police that were there looking for 'weapons' they would at least confiscate a large shiny Multitool. The CPS may well not go forward in a prosecution, nobody likes paperwork it seems.
most likely the owner would be late in getting to their intended destination ? VERY late !
Then probably be advised by his solicitor to accept an official 'telling off' and a black mark be set against his/her record on file somewhere.
I was interested to know IF anyone had experienced something like this. I read on MTO often about people choosing their EDC based on 'laws'. I too would like to stay within the laws of the land at all times. I very rarely NEED a cutting tool that wouldn't be classed as legal. a 3" non locking blade will cope with most tasks (although not as safely IMO)
I'm pretty confident that in the scenario above, even my humble Vic Farmer or favoured swisschamp would get exactly the same response.


* as an after thought, it would not surprise me on bit, if a young man carrying a 9" bread knife tucked in his belt while shoplifting, also got a 'warning' etc. etc. rather than a lengthy prison term, provided it wasn't his 59th offence ! such is the way things are run from what I've seen

[Chako]

Can't say that I ever was questioned about a knife or multi-tool that was on me.

A lot of folks around here carry knives. They are so common, nobody even looks at them anymore. I know a lot of folks who wear multi-tools also. With that said, the only time I get hassled, is when I have a camera in my hand. I can recall one weird incident where I was taking photos of geese in the city owned marina. A city employee approached me and told me to leave the property or he would have me escorted. I looked at him and told him he was joking right. Apparently not. He told me that the folks who live in the boats docked at the marina had a right to privacy. I told him there was such a thing as privacy in a city owned public marina? I left as I didn't want to push it. I didn't tell him that with my 500mm lens, I could be taking close ups well out of his eyesight. The whole things was absurd. Oddly enough, I was there before and after the incident with nary a problem.   

[dks]

Camera related.
In Greece, in Piraeus metro station, a few years ago, I was waiting inside for someone, so as to go to Athens city.

That station is above ground, open and visible from the outside and at the time I was the only one there.

Being bored I took the picture shown below. 

Three security ladies, came and told me not to take pictures as it was illegal, due to some security measures put in place before the Athens olympics.

I did not see any sign and have taken many pictures in Athens, and in many countrie's, Metro stations before and after without any problem...

In Serbia, again several years ago, I took a picture in the area near St. Sava Church; a tourist area.

I was approached by a policeman, that hapenned to be at the edge of my picture (barely visible) who demanded that I erased that picture as it was illegeal to take pictures of police officers, for security reasons... The whole thing was weird as it would have been hard for everybody to avoid taking his picture, considering he was just walking in a tourist area.

I also had a man get upset when I took his picture in a market in Brasilia, a few years ago (picture shown)
He got up and started jumping up and down waving his hands. I assume he got bored with people taking his picture all the time. There was a policeman next to me who said nothing, so I assume it was no big deal.

[DazMechanical]

Illegal to take a photo, that's going way too far...


    

[J Mackrel Jones]

Ih Kenya in 1978 we were told that it was against the law to photograph an airport, a sea port, or the national flag.  This was less than 20 years after the Mau Mau uprisings and national independence.
I took a photo of our taxi driver in his colorful local outfit at the airport in Yemen (this was in 1987) and a soldier suddenly appeared and grabbed my camera.  My wife's sister, with the US state department, was with us and explained that I was just a dumb tourist and not an agent trying to record info for an attack on a strategic facility.  Got my camera back.  Will not post the photo.
Shortly after 9/11 I was driving home from work north of Denver and pulled over to take a photo of a cool old billboard. A guard came from a shack across the road and demanded my ID, said it was illegal to take photographs in the vicinity of a petroleum processing facility.  Sure enough, there was a plant there.  I pointed out the interesting billboard.  He returned my ID after running a check on it.  I suppose I am on some terrorist watch list now.  Thanks, Homeland Security.

[Aloha]

Not only must you all delete any "illegal" photos but you must also delete any mental images as well. 

[J Mackrel Jones]

I've still got the damn photos but the mental is self-deleting all too easy nowadays.

[ironraven]

Any place were you can't take pictures, well, there should be signs posted.

What I'm about to say will undoubtedly get someone's shorts in a knot, it has before. Laws eventually reach a point where you can not NOT break one. Ultimately, you end up with a condition where everyone has a reason they can be picked up, whenever the powers that be wish it.

[Roche]

Laws eventually reach a point where you can not NOT break one.

Tell Sammy Hagar...

[minibear453]

Not really illegal, but I carry a set of self-made Bogota lockpicks in my wallet. "With intent" it's illegal. So it's kind of grey line/suspicious. I take them out for TSA anyway.

[Aloha]

Any place were you can't take pictures, well, there should be signs posted.

What I'm about to say will undoubtedly get someone's shorts in a knot, it has before. Laws eventually reach a point where you can not NOT break one. Ultimately, you end up with a condition where everyone has a reason they can be picked up, whenever the powers that be wish it.

Sad but very true IMO as well. 

[kirk13]

Bit of appropriate Judas Priest

[Essexman]

I started this thread to hear of such stories. Apart from people from here that I have met in the 3d world, I've met few people who DO carry a 'knife' (probably due to the bad press) other than a couple of old guys that had SAKs and one or two totally mad idiots that should be locked up anyway, they had mostly 'kitchen' knives for *protection*.
I've never been 'stopped' and searched, mainly because I don't go far. on the few occasions I have 'emptied my pockets' I had a suspicion it was coming (visiting court/airports etc.) so I had removed EVERYTHING even remotely controversial   
as I've said before I do carry locking blades. I can't see me getting searched while doing my weekly shop. I don't often get call for a pair of pliers either while waiting at the checkout  so do I 'need' to carry it ?
the answer is probably "no....I don't need to" but I do and I'm not sure if I'd be able to explain it to 'Mr Plod' or a local magistrate 
I may be getting a bit off track here and going over old ground, so back to your question  Essexman ~
No I have no evidence to back up my theory ! BUT I have experience, first hand, of how the Birtish police react and ignore common sense in some situations.
so I believe that if someone was to be stopped in a railway station, by police that were there looking for 'weapons' they would at least confiscate a large shiny Multitool. The CPS may well not go forward in a prosecution, nobody likes paperwork it seems.
most likely the owner would be late in getting to their intended destination ? VERY late !
Then probably be advised by his solicitor to accept an official 'telling off' and a black mark be set against his/her record on file somewhere.
I was interested to know IF anyone had experienced something like this. I read on MTO often about people choosing their EDC based on 'laws'. I too would like to stay within the laws of the land at all times. I very rarely NEED a cutting tool that wouldn't be classed as legal. a 3" non locking blade will cope with most tasks (although not as safely IMO)
I'm pretty confident that in the scenario above, even my humble Vic Farmer or favoured swisschamp would get exactly the same response.


* as an after thought, it would not surprise me on bit, if a young man carrying a 9" bread knife tucked in his belt while shoplifting, also got a 'warning' etc. etc. rather than a lengthy prison term, provided it wasn't his 59th offence ! such is the way things are run from what I've seen

OK all good. So my point is that apart from the odd thing that turns up in the media (as shown, sometimes twisted and not to be trusted) and the "my mate down the pub says" type rumours we don't know of anyone who has been nicked and put away for having a locking MT on them. I would hazard a guess that there isn't any either, well there maybe if it's some gang type who thought it better to carry and leatherman than a  pair of Stanley baldes tape together.

Have a look at this link, read down the page where the examples are. http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/knives_and_offensive_weapons/

These are real cases here in the UK. Take time to read what they did and note, they are bad people doing bad things.

They are not middle aged men walking down the street minding their own with a MT in the pocket.

I'm going to stop now. I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from by now.

[RT1969]

Have a look at this link, read down the page where the examples are. http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/knives_and_offensive_weapons/

These are real cases here in the UK. Take time to read what they did and note, they are bad people doing bad things.

After reading a bit in the linked article:
No, the are not

middle aged men walking down the street minding their own with a MT in the pocket

.

They are drunk juveniles sentenced to 24(!) months for threatening a police officer with an open lock knife (without attacking him!),
they are 19 years old and sentenced to 6 months for carrying a razor blade in their wallet while in the post office, (reduced to 3 months because it is not a knife - seriously? - Why not let him go, then?)
they are 34 years and given 4½ years for carrying an axe and a stanley knive in the queen's surrounding (No issued threats according to the article),
they are 40 and having a sheated knive out of sight in their mobile home: 12 months because they were on an unrelated bail.

There are a lot of different cases, but I don't understand while they had to be charged with possession of a knife, when there were other reasons for their sentencing. Some of these cases just read to me like the police said "Ey, we know you. You were up to no godd in the past. And look what we found, a stanley knife. That's enough to bring you back to the jail for another round."

If those people are planing or commiting a criminal act, why not charge them for that? Why has there be a law that bans carrying a knife on 'public places' (and your living room seems to be a public place, too)? Most of these people were charged with another crime anyway. I see no benefit whatsoever in this law.
This seems to me just to be a simple tool for the police to bully everyone they like without having to such erranous tasks as, äh, police work.

Sorry if this is a bit aggrevated, but I hate laws made for the sake of the executive, not for the sake of the public.

[edingg]

I dont know if this reply makes anny sence but annyway... i was frisked at central station Amsterdam and it was a preventive anti terrorism action. They found my tiny workknife that is normaly legal and fined me with 110euro... the even fined an older lady with a fruitknife..
the law was clear it was legal to carry it but because the reason was an anti terror campain the could punish me... so they just changed the reason to get around the normal law! like that annything can be illegal

[bmot]

I dont know if this reply makes anny sence but annyway... i was frisked at central station Amsterdam and it was a preventive anti terrorism action. They found my tiny workknife that is normaly legal and fined me with 110euro... the even fined an older lady with a fruitknife..
the law was clear it was legal to carry it but because the reason was an anti terror campain the could punish me... so they just changed the reason to get around the normal law! like that annything can be illegal

Yepp, that's the idea... Same part of the law that prevents you from even taking a screwdriver to a football match

[edingg]

I understand that ofcourse!  But i was working in amst. and i could proof that! I mean with the slightest background check they could have let it go. Lesson was i had to put it in my bag so i couldent reacht it quickly... have jou ever worked al day and forgott that jou stil had something in your pocket? A wel never mind im getting pissed al over again 

[Lichtbote]

Wow. I work in NL at regular intervals, and i always have my Surge (or others) on my belt then - due to NL laws i always assumed that if i ever get problems (oho locking blade) it will be here in Germany as it is usually OK there to carry that sort of blade.

Back in my army days i once came back, and if i would have taken the time to clean my equipment to inspection cleanliness on the base, i would have missed the days last train and needed to wait to the next day. So i decided to put everything in my big Rucksack and clean it sometime at home in my days of.
Well, i was pretty tired and felt aslept between Rheine and Bentheim, the last 2 railroad-stations on german ground. I had to leave the train at the last station (Bentheim) to get the bus to home, but beeing sleeping i have been woken up by the customs/border-police after the train left Bentheim, and the next station was in the Netherlands.

"Sorry to wake you up, Sir, but as you are still in combat suit and carrying stuff - i assume you wanted to leave in Bentheim?"
"Yes Sir. Are we there yet?"
"Unfortunately we left it a few minutes ago. Next station is on NL ground, do you maybe have some civil clothing with you, to step out there and wait for the next train back to Bentheim?"
"I´m afraid, no."
"Any military equipment other than clothing in your bag?"
"Nothing special - just some magazines, standard personal stuff like my mess kit, folding shovel and such. And some knifes."
Silence for a few seconds, then the 2 officers looked at each other and decided they better search the assistance of the 2 colleagues frm the Netherland border patrol that were on the same train.
Same questions from them. Checking my mil. ID. After that the 4 asked:
"What kind of knife, the army issued swiss pocket knife?"
"No Sir, our unit hasn´t issued that knife. I have with me my army issued paratrooper gravity knife on it´s place in my right legs side pocket, my buckknife in the sheat on my belt, a Gerber MK I dagger in the main compartment of my rucksack, and a large fixed combat knife in one of the side compartments of the rucksack."
A little pause, then: "May we see the knifes, Sir?"

I showed them all the knifes, had to explain why i have all of them with me, what use they have.
Then: "Sir, please store all of them on the ground of the rucksack. Then you can leave the train on next station and wait one hour. Take the next train back and explain the situation if needed, we are informed and our colleagues on that train can contact us. Don´t leave the track, the other train will stop at the same place you will have leaved this one. Don´t leave the station, at night there are usually groups of people hanging around with beer and booze who might see a german soldier as a invitation for a fight. If they notice you - do not react to any provocation - and hope for the best."

No fine, no need to pay for the way back. I left the other train in Bentheim and was at home only some hours later than planned. As with "normal" persons, also officers can be nice guys doing their job - or total smurfheads. I had luck.