Air pistol advice

[dks]

Reading the thread on airguns there seems to be a lot of people with experience with air pistols... so, I have not played with airguns for several years but I used to shoot a single shot airgun.

All airguns here require a gun license,

So it has now become legal to have air pistols and since I am happy with my large guns I am thinking about getting a low cost air pistol as they have now been imported in large volumes.

Most seem to use C02 bottles. I understand that the higher powered ones will be the pneumatic ones.

Here are some models that I am looking at:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.716155165084159.1073741850.162347003798314&type=3

and a link with prices:
http://www.airgunhunting.com/Air%20Gun%20Pistols%20Cyprus.htm

The prices seem about 3 times as expensive as the US ones....

Prices start at 80 euro for a Beretta Elite (but according to the amazon.com reviews it has a bad seal with the CO2 cylinder).

Ideally I want something low cost, with good accuracy that can be used for targets as well as possibly for close range small game hunting.

I also assume that I need to fire pellets for hunting.

So, any advice ? Pellets, BB, both, Rifling (does it help in an air pistol) are these pistols just toys??

Any good models from the links?

Is it worth paying 200, 300 Euro? or is it just cosmetic. (I assume a longer barel may give more speed and accuracy..)(most are made by the same company anyway)

Do the CO2 guns have enough power for hunting?

[kirk13]

Any and all the pistols shown on the links are plinkers. They're great for splatting tin cans,or for practical pistol comps. They are in no way suitable for hunting,at all!

As to the basic types.

Plastic BB. The good ones work on either CO2 or propane gas,and work on full blow back,ie like a real semi auto pistol. If your using plastic BBs,you won't have rifling. The BBs are to irregular to be at accurate.( think Brown Bess musket compared to a Mauser 97K?) They're built as low cost fire arm trainers,think target sizes like Lynn has been using for her CCW.

Steel BBs are better,but you can have serious ricochet issues,so be very conscious of your back stop,and what's around the target area.

Diablo pellet types will be the most accurate. However,they are( with one exception I'm aware of) revolvers,regardless of looks. In the UK they can have rifled barrels,so there's an exponential improvement in accuracy,but still no match for a half decent single stroke pneumatic.

Where possible,if you want a replica type,look at Umarex. German quality,very reliable as long as you understand CO2.

If you want something capable of some sort of accuracy,stump up for a Wiehrauch. They'll last forever,and offer the best accuracy you'll get without buying a match pistol.

Let me look up a couple of links,and I'll be Beethoven

[kirk13]

Ok,Uncle Kirky is back...

CO2 as a propellant is...iffy. Rapid fire will cause the temperature in the caplet to drop rapidly. As the co2 cools,it looses pressure,thus you'll loose power,and,if using a blowback,risk jams.

This does seem to be as big a problem with BBs compared to diablos. Caplets are cheap...my local army surplus does ten caplets for a fiver,or there abouts. Better deals can be found on eBay.

Back to the guns...
All the triggers will be crap on the replica guns. I've had a play with a Umarex CP88 set up by a member if the Umarex Boys Club. It's trigger had been well tuned,and was nice and easy in use,but it's a tinkering job to do that.

If I were looking at a plinker/ casual target practise gun,I'd start looking here

http://www.weihrauch-sport.de/seiten/englisch/luftpistolen/e_luftpistolen.html

I've fired the HW40,45 and 75. The 45/75 are very German,heavy,over engineered,but smurfing good. The HW40 is cheaper,and lighter,with similar balance to the replica guns.

Webley/Hatsan do this
http://www.webley.co.uk/pages/alecto.html
My shooting partner has one. I find it heavy and unrefined,but if you could grab one at £100, it would be that bad.

[kirk13]

Left field option would be the Crossman 2240

Cheap,fun to shoot,easy to tune and upgrade.
http://www.crosman.com/airguns/pistols/2240

I'll be Bach in a moment with so pix of mine

[kirk13]

 

Crossman revolver, Beretta 92 by Umarex,and a knock off HW40. The Crossman is good fun for £80-90, not great fit and finish,but...  The 92is good,if you have biggish hands...I don't    The knock off HW49 was gun no1,start of this particular addiction. Costs about £60,but is likely to die young. Mine did.

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,30754.msg515001.html#msg515001
Didn't get on with thus til last years Meet. I just suddenly clicked with it. Nice size and balance.


My proper target pistol. The Finewerkbaus can be found for £200-270. Smurfing fantastic gun. Built for the Olympics back in the day. In the hands of a good shot(not me!) still capable of 500x600+ scores in 60 shot matches.

[dks]

I knew you would help.

I did some reading but as I was only made aware that the pistols are now legal two days ago (I was getting some diving masks and saw the pistols as I was paying) I have not been able to research  the topic. Also the experience with them locally is zero so you can not just ask someone for advice. I am thus counting on the forum experts.

taaaaaaapaaaaaaas

[Dr Gonzo]

I have a Makarov CO2 pistol and while it's great fun for target shooting and plinking I doubt it's powerful enough to hunt with
Each CO2 capsule is good for about 56 shots (4 mags)

[dks]

When I lived in the UK I had a spring operated pistol that was good for cans.

There seems to be a lot of expertise in the UK.

taaaaaaapaaaaaaas

[Dr Gonzo]

A friend of mine had a Webley Tempest that was great fun to shoot darts from and was a springer....looks like you can still buy them...quick hide the wallet

 

[Smashie]

Somewhere floating around here (locked up) I've got a Umarex Walther CP-88, good fun at 5m but not much else. It's a plinker.

Hunting should always be a safe and painless kill.

I used to have an Original 6m, spring powered .177 and no recoil, I'd love to get another.

If I were to buy an airgun for fun and hunting then it would be a PCP pre charged pneumatic

[Smashie]

A friend of mine had a Webley Tempest that was great fun to shoot darts from and was a springer....looks like you can still buy them...quick hide the wallet

(Image removed from quote.)

WANT!!!!!!

[kirk13]

A friend of mine had a Webley Tempest that was great fun to shoot darts from and was a springer....looks like you can still buy them...quick hide the wallet

(Image removed from quote.)

Aww Doc,those are fun! Bit classic British metal!

I have a Makarov CO2 pistol and while it's great fun for target shooting and plinking I doubt it's powerful enough to hunt with
Each CO2 capsule is good for about 56 shots (4 mags)

(Image removed from quote.)

I'd love one of those,or the PPK,but I've nowhere to shoot it safely!

[kirk13]

Somewhere floating around here (locked up) I've got a Umarex Walther CP-88. It's a plinker.

Hunting should always be a safe and painless kill.

I used to have an Original 6m, spring powered .177 and no recoil, I'd love to get another.

If I were to buy an airgun for fun and hunting then it would be a PCP pre charged pneumatic

Yes THIS ^

[kirk13]

And there was the Blackbird



Only get one I someone is giving it away,with a fifty quid note,for your trouble

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

A friend of mine had a Webley Tempest that was great fun to shoot darts from and was a springer....looks like you can still buy them...quick hide the wallet

(Image removed from quote.)

I had a Hurricane back in the day

So you can get Tempests again then

Sent from the astropathic choir.

[Chako]

I am still toying with getting my PAL which in Canada means you can get something that shoots over 500 feet per second. Oddly enough, I want a higher powered pellet rifle for rodent extermination to ensure a kill.

All of my pistols are BB powered by CO2.

Umerex makes a few BB rifles that are great fun to shoot as they can shoot bursts down range. 6 BBs in a stream does nice damage.



From top to bottom: Umarex Steel Force (430 fps), Umarex Steel Storm (430 fps), Umarex TAC (410 fps) Pistol converter...does not shoot burst like the first two.

The above are great fun to plink around with...and all operate on CO2 and shoot BBs. My two Pellet shooters are in .22 size.

[jzmtl]

I hate CO2 pistol, too much drop in power after just a few shots.

I have a Webley alecto, one pump will get you 400ish FPS which is about what you get with CO2 before the power drop, and max three will get 570ish I think. It's pretty accurate, more than I can do for sure.

So you can get Tempests again then

Somebody bought the name and moved all production to Turkey.

I am still toying with getting my PAL which in Canada means you can get something that shoots over 500 feet per second. Oddly enough, I want a higher powered pellet rifle for rodent extermination to ensure a kill.

That Benjamin classic of yours will do very nicely with a nitro piston kit dropped in. You can modify the trigger to a true two stage, much better than the horrid factory version.

[Lynn LeFey]

Great thread. This is something I have a bit of interest in myself.

Since my intent in shooting mostly boils down to putting holes in paper, and you can fire a BB or pellet gun in city limits, I've considered getting a pellet pistol for practice at home.

 

[kirk13]

Just remember Lynn,you'd need either a stylafoam backstop,or a series of cloth baffles behind the target to stop ricochets.

Sorry if that sounded preachy, default habit when in the UK and talking guns of any nature

[Lynn LeFey]

I'll have a proper bullet trap if I ever actually do this, but don't EVER feel bad about preaching safety with even something as seemingly innocuous as air pistols. Nothing wrong with that. Eyes don't grow back.

[kirk13]

I'll have a proper bullet trap if I ever actually do this, but don't EVER feel bad about preaching safety with even something as seemingly innocuous as air pistols. Nothing wrong with that. Eyes don't grow back.

Those be true words,sister!

[dks]

I went to a few gun shops today to see what is available. I saw some gamo models as well as Beretta h&k a umarex auto rifle look etc. They start from 85  euros but you need to go to about 150 for a decent pellet gun. They all seem similar using co2 just for fun.

The only cheaper powerful one I saw was a browning 800 mag. Single shot break barbell but with proper power and a long barrel. Heavy.. 180 euros

taaaaaaapaaaaaaas

[kirk13]

I went to a few gun shops today to see what is available. I saw some gamo models as well as Beretta h&k a umarex auto rifle look etc. They start from 85  euros but you need to go to about 150 for a decent pellet gun. They all seem similar using co2 just for fun.

The only cheaper powerful one I saw was a browning 800 mag. Single shot break barbell but with proper power and a long barrel. Heavy.. 180 euros

taaaaaaapaaaaaaas

I'll offer a few more words of advice,if I may?

1) NEVER BUY A GAMO! They're utter smurf!
2) The Browning isn't a Browning,it's a generic Chinese gun which you'll see in many different brands( I've a notion it's a rip off of the Weihrauch break barrel,but I could be wrong). It's not bad,if it's at the right price. I've had a play with a Hatsan branded one,but £50-£80 would be a fair price.

[dks]

It seems that I either have to spend around 80 euro for fun or 500+ for a decent gun (at which point I might as well get another shotgun)

taaaaaaapaaaaaaas

[kirk13]

It seems that I either have to spend around 80 euro for fun or 500+ for a decent gun (at which point I might as well get another shotgun)

taaaaaaapaaaaaaas

Sadly,pretty much!

If you here in the UK,there's at least the option of second hand.

[dks]

Pistols have only been legal for 6 months so there is no second hand market yet...

taaaaaaapaaaaaaas

[Styerman]

I used to shoot ISSF air , with precompressed air ( either SCUBA tank or pump ) I had a Morini ,a Steyr LP 10 and a Steyr LP50 . The Lp 50 ran about $ 2500.00 Can. , the LP10 and Morini were about 2K . The Russians used to make a single stroke Pneumatic , that was about $450.00 .

All of the above were a joy to shoot , and were real tack drivers - but not cheap . Very addictive !

Chris

[jzmtl]

The Russians used to make a single stroke Pneumatic , that was about $450.00 .

All of the above were a joy to shoot , and were real tack drivers - but not cheap . Very addictive !

Chris

Still do, Baikal IZH-46M, about $470 right now.

[kirk13]

I used to shoot ISSF air , with precompressed air ( either SCUBA tank or pump ) I had a Morini ,a Steyr LP 10 and a Steyr LP50 . The Lp 50 ran about $ 2500.00 Can. , the LP10 and Morini were about 2K . The Russians used to make a single stroke Pneumatic , that was about $450.00 .

All of the above were a joy to shoot , and were real tack drivers - but not cheap . Very addictive !

Chris

Out of curiosity,did you have any problems with the Steyrs? I know guys with both 10m pistols,and the HFT rifles. While they're stonkingly accurate,most seem to need to go back to the factory a couple of times before they work properly.

[Styerman]

They never caused me any problems , and I used to shoot about 5 days a week . Reliability all around !

Chris