The Survival Knife

[Chako]

That is very true.

The second knife is a United Cutlery Bushmaster. Now this is a very nice knife.



The sheath comes with 3 Velcro pockets.



The hand guard is easily removed.



Inside the handle is a nice little survival kit. Standard stuff here. However, there are nice touches with the plastic container. There is a full Morse code label on the container. There are also two end caps. The bottom cap comes off and offers a small space perfect for a few pills etc. The main container space has a cap that doubles as a poor magnifying glass.



The top most sheath pouch contains a can opener. The second pouch contains a small LED flashlight and a snake bite kit. The third pouch contains a sharpening stone, and a small games snare.



The snake bite kit is a bit interesting.



The Bushmaster is the nicer of the pair.

[Tomahawk Rob]

Does anybody really know the purpose, of the "saw back" on Rambo style survival blades? It's not for cutting. It is for combat, used for trapping and disarming your opponents blade. That's why the teeth are angled towards the handle.  In a real survival situation it makes the blade almost useless for battoning. Very few hollow handle knives can take serious abuse. For the money you are better off buying a full tang knife. Never carry all of your survival supplies in one place. If you lose one item you can get by. If you lose them all (hollow handle knife) you are in trouble. As far as folders go not all are created equally. My primary EDC is a cold steel Rajah 2. I have chopped and battoned with it. I have owned many "survival" knives and learned what does not work. The best survival knife, is the one you have with you. With out knowledge, the tools are useless.

[Chako]

The seller is being a bit snippy with me. Guess he figures I should have known it was a fake due to the low price. I told him one never knows, maybe it was a steal of a deal...and that in the future, he shouldn't knowingly hawk fake goods as the real thing. He told me nowhere did it state Aitor, etc...

[comis]

Does anybody really know the purpose, of the "saw back" on Rambo style survival blades? It's not for cutting. It is for combat, used for trapping and disarming your opponents blade. That's why the teeth are angled towards the handle.  In a real survival situation it makes the blade almost useless for battoning. Very few hollow handle knives can take serious abuse. For the money you are better off buying a full tang knife. Never carry all of your survival supplies in one place. If you lose one item you can get by. If you lose them all (hollow handle knife) you are in trouble. As far as folders go not all are created equally. My primary EDC is a cold steel Rajah 2. I have chopped and battoned with it. I have owned many "survival" knives and learned what does not work. The best survival knife, is the one you have with you. With out knowledge, the tools are useless.

I don't have combat experience with using a Rambo knife, so I can't really say how effective it is going to be.  But looking at how most of these 'survival knife' have the 'saw tooth' angled towards the handle, I think I would rather believe the story or idea of Randall's knife back in WWII for cutting fuselage (as Chako wrote about in his post) than to think it as a 'disarming' another knife/edged weapon.

For 'trapping' or disarming, here is a good example, a well known Japanese weapon, called Sai:



In real life, the saw tooth at the back of a 'survival knife' is so small, shallow and often time angled, that I really doubt there is any chance people could use it to 'trap and disarm', even if they just stand there and let you try it. 


I agree a full tang knife usually have more sturdy construction than most poorly executed hollow tang knives, but I think it could be an overstatement to say "never carry all of your survival supplies in one place".   Most of the survival kits nowadays have all the tools/equipment/supplies all in one place, do you carry each of your survival supplies separately?


I understand it's easy to say 'the best xxxx is the one you have with you' or 'the best survival tool is between your ears', but I think that kind of excuses may often time lead to ill preparation and could be harmful when things really gone south in any survival situation.  For example, if I were to have a 'cardsharp' on me, when I am stuck in a wilderness survival situation, will I call it the 'best knife' because it is on me?  Sure it is better than nothing, but is it the 'best'?   


There is not a second in my mind I would doubt that mental strength, skill and calmness are of upmost importance in a survival situation, and I do agree with you that skills are very important.   However, I'd hope most skillful/seasonal outdoor person would have the good sense to equip themselves with the right kind of gears and skill sets, before heading out for fun.

[Santos]

Does anybody really know the purpose, of the "saw back" on Rambo style survival blades? It's not for cutting. It is for combat, used for trapping and disarming your opponents blade. That's why the teeth are angled towards the handle.  In a real survival situation it makes the blade almost useless for battoning. Very few hollow handle knives can take serious abuse. For the money you are better off buying a full tang knife. Never carry all of your survival supplies in one place. If you lose one item you can get by. If you lose them all (hollow handle knife) you are in trouble. As far as folders go not all are created equally. My primary EDC is a cold steel Rajah 2. I have chopped and battoned with it. I have owned many "survival" knives and learned what does not work. The best survival knife, is the one you have with you. With out knowledge, the tools are useless.

Sorry bud but i think you have been had. The pilot knifes had the saw back for fuselage. Other sawbacks have been put in place for 'notching' which can be used in trap setting.

Batoning is over rated. Since i only discovered batoning through the internet in my late twenties i never really felt it was critical of a feature and happilly admit i never been camping in snow regions. I have gotten by to date by putting the trunk size logs on slow burn while the smaller wrist branches do the brunt work. Also the other similar method for smaller logs is 'san-baton'. Drive the knife in the log at the top, then use wood and knife together like a hammer against a hard surface.    I found a youtube video that sums batoning being a matter of technique and not knife nicely.



Thanks to a macgyver episode i dont think i'd resort to batoning with knife regularly anyway, what i'd do is fabricate some spliting ' gluts'  ( wooden wedges) thereby conserving my knife from unnessesary wear by using the power of science. If i needed to do it regular basis i would fire harden the gluts with the first fire . I did find some vids showing the concept in action and chose this one cause he uses a very crude wedge and even a tiny Esee izula for part of it. 



The observations i made was he probably would of had better success after the first initial incision the layed the log flat and worked the wedge(s) perpendicular to the log down the length of the crack . Dont understand ? go here http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/tinyhatchets2.html

[Dale]

[Chako]

I came across an other take on the Aitor Jungle King survival knife. This one being a bit more honest based on the fact they didn't bother putting anything on the blade.

[charlie fox]

the 3 day survival trip was an interesting read in that blog


just realised the farson blade came up twice in my original post.. For those who dont know what an Ontario Ct1 looks like this
(Image removed from quote.)

One thing i think is funny is people complaining its too thick.

One of these has been my "survival knife" since 1986. Not too much one cannot do with it.

[cedricada]

schrade make a pretty good hollow handled knife. Its one peice steel so doesnt have the integrity issues.

[Chako]

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SCHF1SM/schrade-schf1sm-extreme-hollow-handle-survival-special-forces-plain-blade-nylon-sheath

Made by Taylor Brands....well I guess it couldn't be any worse quality wise to some of my cheapest survival knives. 

Thanks for showing me that one.

[cedricada]

its a bit of a rip of a chris reeve design - the mountaineer, which sells for about four times as much.

[cedricada]

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=221413893948

or 8 times as much. Ouch!

[Chako]

Found this in Espanola. I was a bit surprised to come across one of these in the middle of nowhere. Meet the Amazon Jungle Survivor.









The kit that came with this is a bit different from my others. Little pieces of wood are used as bobbers for the fishing kit. You also get a sharpened wooden dowel that acts as a support for the little sewing kit. I thought that was a good idea.







the knife is razor sharp, and feels sturdy enough. I looked inside the handle and this is one of the better constructed ones, with the use of epoxy to hold the nut and bolt in place...which I could't see due to the epoxy. Unfortunately, it is also one of those knives that cheaped out on the sheath. I absolutely hate foam core sheaths. If it bothered me anymore, I would quickly make a leather sheath for it...and I just might down the road. Foam sides have no place in a sheath. Mind you, there is no leather in the sheath to begin with. 

[Noa Isumi]

Random thoughts on SawBack Knives
Hollow handles were an OSS/CIA  thing in WW2 and after to hide/protect a poison suicide pill, they weren't any bigger than necessary for that task, several examples survive in museums and private collections.

Common folk lore says the combination of the two feature occurred in the 1960s with the Randall Mod18 and was popularized in film by FirstBlood (rambo1) and the Jimmy Lyle knife featured.

The thinking of the saw back being a sword catcher is completely untrue.
There was a style of sword catcher that resembled a saw tooth back in the renaissance. But it's teeth were skinny spikes spaced over an inch apart creating wide spaces resembling the wrench on the wallet ninja, just 4x larger. Windlass Steel made a one of these a few years ago.

As for the schrade being a "rip" of the Chris Reeve knives it is my understanding he licensed his design/patents or whatever when he moved away from making the hollow handle knives as a regular catalog item. After all he did legally lock up the one piece hollow handle concept as a design trademark or something and now doesn't make them, focusing on high end folders instead. Not to say he wont make one for you but you don't see them any more in his distributed brand at SMKW and else ware. So maybe you can get one maybe you can't, I know I don't have the cash to try.

The modern saw back in military use goes back to the mid 1800s. Some sword bayonets had a double cut pattern as did many other bayonets and artillery officers swords from all over the world up until WW2. Most military rifles including Enfield, Mauser and Springfield had saw bayonet variants in WW1. This basic push type double cut tooth is still in use on the Glock81. Primary uses were for making barricades, timbers/supports for MG emplacements, and tent poles.

The other major modern  pattern can be best described as a single cut knife file edge, if anyone has an actual name please. These are seen on AK bayonets, American M9 bayonets, and Ontario's UDT Frogman dive knife. More for obstacle clearing than building is my thoughts on this style.

The Mill file "saw tooth" used on the Marbles Jet Ranger and its Camillus, Cantarigus, And Ontario counterparts. Marbles and Ontario being the 2 remaining makers. You know this as the AirForce Survival knife, and like the Jeep the company that designed it (Marbles) didn't get the initial military contract. The final version is thicker than the original Marbles patent specs too.  Current production Marbles are thinner than Ontario, and finished to polished presentation grade, not mil parkerized due to using original print not final issue spec.. Best uses is light metal cutting, it is a file after all.

The Randall saw was (read someware probably Blade magazine) inspired after a mid 1800s "ham knife" a carving knife meant for sawing through bone while carving a ham at the diner table. Their saw is more of an aggressive serration pattern. The model18 introduced in the mid 60's during Vietnam was possibly the FIRST true hollow handle survival knife. Randall does make a pilots knife with a file type saw that dates to 58 I think and is still in catalog.
 Beyond that I don't know much bout them.

Most cheep 1980s "saw backs actually have a fish scaler instead of a saw. They make up for this by packing a wire saw of either Gigli bone or Nato8 strand design.

The easiest way to tell any real Jimmy Lyle or a licensed Rambo1-2  is the teeth have a both bevel in slightly like an edge grind and have a milled slot down the center to make it a double row of teeth that line up straight rather than offset like standard crosscut patterns.

Old jungle king 1 and 2 have cross cut teeth milled in with a vertical mill so the bottom valley between the teeth is round matching the mill bit and the back of the opposing row of teeth is exposed yet smooth and flat not cut at an angle or curve. I heard Aitor like Reeve licensed away their product. That's why United cutlery is now making JK's and that weird bolo/bowie hybrid army knife. That's also why the teeth are a much simpler square pattern now. Odd note the last JK1 I saw was China, scabbard was Spain, boxed United with Aitor butt cap and scabbard logos. And I saw that army knife was blister packed United with Aitor logo on scabbard, made in Chinatext on card , that one at Academy.

Sorry to any who disapprove of rambling, spelling/grammar  and possible thread hijacking.
But we were talking saw backs and I've been thinking on the subject a lot lately.
So I thought Id set my limited knowledge to the winds, should I have missed anything or messed up feel free.
It was a possible subject for a you tube vid if I ever stop being lazy and start a channel like I've kicking around all year.

[Chako]

Great addition...and informative. Thank you. 

[dipti]

I would consider a Bowie Knife to be chosen best amongst the survival knife because they broadens the changes of food and shelter in survival situation because you can hunt with them anytime you want. Personally also I have used it in many tough situations because the knife is durable and tough.

[Chako]

The Bowie is a great design.

I found a few more hollow handled type survival knives.

This short one is made by US Custom Design, the company that makes the Survivor series of knives.





These next two are called Snake Eyes. Very large hollow handled knives produced by the same company. However, these feature massive round handles that allow you to pack a lot of gear if you have a mind to do such. On the plus side, the button style compass is larger, and is also liquid dampened.

Brown camo.





The hollow handle on these feature a massive diameter of 1 1/4", which swallows the survival capsule with ease. Plenty of room for an expanded survival kit, and the rubber O ring makes the handle compartment waterproof.



My only issue is the lack of epoxy on the bolt and Nut...but that could be easily fixed by mixing your own and pouring the results down the handle.

Orange camo.

[styx]

for some reason I'm eying the Puma Bowie lately

[Wheeljack]

I'm an avid collector of survival knives, both hollow and solid handled, and have some of the more popular/well known ones including:

- Marto-Brewer Explorer: I really like this knife. It's not the most robust design where the handle meets the blade, but if you can use your knife sensibly (i.e. no batoning) it's a good all-around lightweight design.

- Kershaw 1005: This knife is a tank, and in spite of its two-piece design, it feels solid as a rock and inspires confidence. The sheath material is a little "lightweight" and shows wear easily - it's too bad they didn't select a more robust material to better match the character of the knife.

- Buck 184 "Buckmaster": The classic '80's over-the-top survival knife. Mine is a later forged model, so it should be tougher than the earlier ones. Very heavy, very thick and well designed. Lots of military guys used these, so I know they are tough. Handle is harsh though, so I can see why many of the military guys wrapped them in tape or cord.

- Tekna Wilderness Edge: This is one of my personal favorites. It's such a clever design with its full tang and comfortable clamshell handles. The sheath is a masterpiece of function, even if it doesn't necessarily excel at any one thing. A great all-around knife for dealing with game, making spears, etc. The only downside to the clamshell design is no way to easily lash it to a pole to make a spear, if you were so inclined.

- Gerber BMF: Another classic '80's over-the-top design. While the handle material is undeniably comfortable, it seems to wear easily based on the more "used" ones I've seen on ebay.

- Aitor Jungle King: Another overkill (size wise) design with a really clever sheath that offers a lot of functionality. The smaller JK skinner knife housed in the sheath is a real gem since it can serve the purpose of a spear or a variety of other uses. Just be careful with it though as it is wicked sharp.

- Western 221: A decent effort from a Colorado (my former home) based manufacturer. Simple but rugged design without all the bells and whistles of the competitors. Sheath is also made from very lightweight (i.e. weak) materials and would probably not stand up to the rigors of outdoor survival.

- Wilkinson Dartmoor: The machete of survival knives - this thing is huge and heavy, but the construction is clearly bulletproof. No "cool" stuff in the sheath, unfortunately, and very limited storage in the handle in spite of the knife's size.

- Gerber LMF II: Not much in the way of trick survival "stuff", but solid construction and a good useable size. Not made from terribly exotic steel, but easy to sharpen and tough enough for all-around use.

- Bear Grylls Ultimate Survival Knife: Some interesting features, but why oh why couldn't Gerber make this one (or even the Pro model) in the US? The LMF II is US made and affordable, so it seems like an easily achievable goal. Only reason why I own it is because of the "theme" of my collection.

- Camillus "Les Stroud" Survival knife: Better than the Bear Grylls knife in some ways, worse in others. Again, hugely disappointing that these are cheaply made in China. Only bought to compare to the BG knife, but I wouldn't depend on either the BG or LS knife in the wild if my life was in the balance.

I have a bunch of other large fixed blade knives such as the Buck 639 and the SOG Seal Pup (Seki City made) that I won't get into here as they weren't sold as "survival" knives, even though most of them would do well in that type of service. Suffice it to say that I like knives!

Chris

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Great overview of your blades there mate, thanks

Sent from the astropathic choir.

[jzmtl]

for some reason I'm eying the Puma Bowie lately

That's one knife I regret not getting. A few years ago they were $80 or so, then suddenly overnight they doubled in price... 

[styx]

i was shocked by the price as well. they seem a bit steep for hollow 440C

[kalans]

What is your take on this cheapo? http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00JD3YBO6/ref=mlt_base_B00JD3YBO6

[zoidberg]

What is your take on this cheapo? http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00JD3YBO6/ref=mlt_base_B00JD3YBO6

Looks like this one here. 

[Chako]

Here is another weird one for the books.



the handle is shaped like a grenade. It does have one of the nicest compasses however, being of the ball design with liquid dampening. Upper blade looks like it should have a V notch cutter, but it doesn't. Not sure what those little yellow pegs are used for. 

[cool123]

I usually prefer folding knives or pocket knives for self defence, as they are easily revealed in fractions of seconds and in emergency situations they are perfect for your safeguard.

[Noa Isumi]

 "Not sure what those little yellow pegs are used for.  "


Those are survival pieces for saving your LIFE. They're yellow to replace either gender in should you lose your game piece





Seriously though, perhaps they are little picks for removing splinters and stings??  That or scoring an emergency game of cribbage.

[firiki]

Maybe they're supposed to be used as terrain markers

[Chako]

You would need a magnifying glass to relocate them.

No clue on their use. You are right though, they do look like game pieces. 

[cool123]

for some reason I'm eying the Puma Bowie lately

That's one knife I regret not getting. A few years ago they were $80 or so, then suddenly overnight they doubled in price... 

You have a nice pick on good fixed blade knives. Puma Bowie is a pretty good knife and the one thing which I like about this knife is that it has a long knife blade. I have seen their price so got doubled.