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Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?

ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
on: August 17, 2014, 01:52:09 AM
Someone just posted this on the Multitool.org Facebook page and I thought it was interesting.

http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2014/07/31/frame-cracks-cause-leatherman-mut-pliers-to-fail/

Def

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nz Offline babola

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #1 on: August 17, 2014, 02:00:20 AM
Hmm, the issue seems real and more widespread than Leatherman would like to admit. To me this looks like a design flaw rather than a 'defective batch'.

Time will tell, but I'll try to refrain from using my MUT pliers for the time being.

Thanks for a heads up, mate.
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us Offline sawman

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #2 on: August 17, 2014, 02:06:38 AM
I don't own a MUT but couldn't this happen with other tools like the Rebar, Wave or ST300  ???
SAW


ca Offline derekmac

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #3 on: August 17, 2014, 02:13:47 AM
Hmm, this has me a bit worried since I carry mine if I'm going to need a HD MT that I don't mind beating on.  I also modded mine, so I don't think I'd qualify for a warranty replacement. 

I have used mine hard, and have not noticed any changes in it, so I could be lucky and have a good one.


ph Offline Goatlord666

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #4 on: August 17, 2014, 02:30:30 AM
...quite timely as I was about to get a MUT. I guess I will have to push this purchase a little further into the future
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us Offline detron

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #5 on: August 17, 2014, 02:42:01 AM
very interesting,  and an almost invisible cause,  thank you for pointing this out
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um Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #6 on: August 17, 2014, 03:29:08 AM
Wow!  I bet Leatherman gets that reworked very quickly. :)


us Offline super m

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #7 on: August 17, 2014, 03:50:03 AM
This is good to know thanks
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nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #8 on: August 17, 2014, 04:08:48 AM
Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?


pt Offline RamoN

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #9 on: August 17, 2014, 04:44:36 AM
Thats not a problem on my mut and i treated it like the heavy duty tool it claims to be with nothing but good results.


It would be useful if they posted the date stamp on the ones that failed to see if its actually a limited quantity on a time period that got that failure. Mine is stamped 0612 so i assume it means 6 / 2012?


nz Offline babola

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #10 on: August 17, 2014, 06:32:33 AM
Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

Would this be your shot at poetry, mate?  :D
EDC and OCD. A wicked mix.


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #11 on: August 17, 2014, 08:25:37 AM
Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

Would this be your shot at poetry, mate?  :D

Nar, the only poetry I write is about def in the shower.


au Offline Theo

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #12 on: August 17, 2014, 08:58:55 AM
Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

I broke a Wave like that, but I never posted about it on here.


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #13 on: August 17, 2014, 09:54:15 AM
Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

I broke a Wave like that, but I never posted about it on here.

That wouldn't be it then. I'll have a hunt for it shortly.

Sent from the land of the long white cloud.



nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #14 on: August 17, 2014, 02:04:27 PM
Found it, 0213 Wave broken in the same place as the MUT. Pics here and here.


00 Offline kirk13

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #15 on: August 17, 2014, 02:46:05 PM
Not good at all!

Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

Would this be your shot at poetry, mate?  :D


Nar, the only poetry I write is about def in the shower.

And that's worse again :facepalm:
There is no beginning,or ending,and for this we are thankful,cos now is hard enough to understand!


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #16 on: August 17, 2014, 02:54:17 PM
Not good at all!

Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

Would this be your shot at poetry, mate?  :D


Nar, the only poetry I write is about def in the shower.

And that's worse again :facepalm:

Oi watch it.  :pok:


00 Offline kirk13

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #17 on: August 17, 2014, 03:00:05 PM
Not good at all!

Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

Would this be your shot at poetry, mate?  :D


Nar, the only poetry I write is about def in the shower.

And that's worse again :facepalm:

Oi watch it.  :pok:

I don't know which would be worse,watching it,or hearing the poetry :ahhh
There is no beginning,or ending,and for this we are thankful,cos now is hard enough to understand!


nz Offline babola

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #18 on: August 17, 2014, 09:21:55 PM
Found it, 0213 Wave broken in the same place as the MUT. Pics here and here.

Joking aside, that flaw seems to be an Achille's heel of the LM tools that belong to the modern scales design - Wave, Surge and MUT all fall into that category.

If you inspect the handles around the pliers pivot area you will notice how thin and small the area that supports the pliers when fully closed and pressure applied to them, is. It's to do with the side cutouts that make the construct a little less robust compared to handles with solid design like ST300, Rebar etc.

While the plier heads are all robust and thick and designed to sustain a reasonably large pressure, the handle area which supports them, isn't.

IMO, those scale cutouts should be much smaller and build a lot more solid. At the moment, that's not the case. MUT scales are the worst in that respect.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 09:24:16 PM by babola »
EDC and OCD. A wicked mix.


gb Offline pingu

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #19 on: August 17, 2014, 09:41:04 PM
Something I noticed in the MUT fracture pic, the distance between the frame verticals is less below the fracture than above suggesting some stress has been relieved post fracture :think:.


« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 09:43:56 PM by pingu »


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #20 on: August 17, 2014, 10:10:39 PM
Found it, 0213 Wave broken in the same place as the MUT. Pics here and here.

Joking aside, that flaw seems to be an Achille's heel of the LM tools that belong to the modern scales design - Wave, Surge and MUT all fall into that category.

If you inspect the handles around the pliers pivot area you will notice how thin and small the area that supports the pliers when fully closed and pressure applied to them, is. It's to do with the side cutouts that make the construct a little less robust compared to handles with solid design like ST300, Rebar etc.

While the plier heads are all robust and thick and designed to sustain a reasonably large pressure, the handle area which supports them, isn't.

IMO, those scale cutouts should be much smaller and build a lot more solid. At the moment, that's not the case. MUT scales are the worst in that respect.
Could you please take some pics showing the difference between the three you mentioned for us MUTless peeps.


00 Offline Kukamunga

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #21 on: August 17, 2014, 10:26:31 PM
This is interesting...as I remember posting about my MUT and how tightening the torx screws just really wasn't helping.  Finally, it was sent into LM and they of course replaced it.  So, now I understand what [more than likely] was wrong with it.

Hmmmm... :D...yes and I dove in for all three versions too.  Gee, hope it was a 'lucky' series of investments.  All three do see use and I haven't had a real problem.  However, I have noticed some looseness that I've been trying to avoid thinking about.

Yeah, well - at least I know what's probably wrong now or will be in the near future.  Thanx.   :P  I'll absolutely be requesting that a 'Quality Mgr.' check out any replacement.
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nl Offline bmot

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #22 on: August 17, 2014, 10:30:52 PM
Not good at all!

Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

Would this be your shot at poetry, mate?  :D


Nar, the only poetry I write is about def in the shower.

And that's worse again :facepalm:

Oi watch it.  :pok:

I don't know which would be worse,watching it,or hearing the poetry :ahhh


Maybe Zoidberg is secretly a Vogon? :think:


 :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh
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nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #23 on: August 17, 2014, 10:46:01 PM
Not good at all!

Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

Would this be your shot at poetry, mate?  :D


Nar, the only poetry I write is about def in the shower.

And that's worse again :facepalm:

Oi watch it.  :pok:

I don't know which would be worse,watching it,or hearing the poetry :ahhh


Maybe Zoidberg is secretly a Vogon? :think:


 :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh

That was never a secret.  :think:


nl Offline bmot

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #24 on: August 17, 2014, 10:48:03 PM
Not good at all!

Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

Would this be your shot at poetry, mate?  :D


Nar, the only poetry I write is about def in the shower.

And that's worse again :facepalm:

Oi watch it.  :pok:

I don't know which would be worse,watching it,or hearing the poetry :ahhh


Maybe Zoidberg is secretly a Vogon? :think:


 :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh

That was never a secret.  :think:


Ah, of course, I was confused for a sec, there... :facepalm:


Hold on to your towels, ladies and gentlemen, here we go!
A knife-carrying guide for the international traveller. : http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,47532.0.html


nz Offline babola

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #25 on: August 18, 2014, 11:54:36 AM
Found it, 0213 Wave broken in the same place as the MUT. Pics here and here.

Joking aside, that flaw seems to be an Achille's heel of the LM tools that belong to the modern scales design - Wave, Surge and MUT all fall into that category.

If you inspect the handles around the pliers pivot area you will notice how thin and small the area that supports the pliers when fully closed and pressure applied to them, is. It's to do with the side cutouts that make the construct a little less robust compared to handles with solid design like ST300, Rebar etc.

While the plier heads are all robust and thick and designed to sustain a reasonably large pressure, the handle area which supports them, isn't.

IMO, those scale cutouts should be much smaller and build a lot more solid. At the moment, that's not the case. MUT scales are the worst in that respect.
Could you please take some pics showing the difference between the three you mentioned for us MUTless peeps.

Mate this will have to wait until the weekend, not at home before than...sorry.

Surge and Wave you own already I believe so can take a peek 'under the hood' yourself. As for the MUT, have you seen the second photo in this link: http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2014/07/31/frame-cracks-cause-leatherman-mut-pliers-to-fail/

That's what I'm referring to as the weak link. IMO, this part should be made a little more robust as it's the part which is under quite a lot of stress for those jobs exerting lot of force while squeezing the handles.

EDC and OCD. A wicked mix.


nz Offline babola

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #26 on: August 18, 2014, 11:55:01 AM
*double post, sorry*
EDC and OCD. A wicked mix.


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #27 on: August 18, 2014, 02:08:49 PM
Found it, 0213 Wave broken in the same place as the MUT. Pics here and here.

Joking aside, that flaw seems to be an Achille's heel of the LM tools that belong to the modern scales design - Wave, Surge and MUT all fall into that category.

If you inspect the handles around the pliers pivot area you will notice how thin and small the area that supports the pliers when fully closed and pressure applied to them, is. It's to do with the side cutouts that make the construct a little less robust compared to handles with solid design like ST300, Rebar etc.

While the plier heads are all robust and thick and designed to sustain a reasonably large pressure, the handle area which supports them, isn't.

IMO, those scale cutouts should be much smaller and build a lot more solid. At the moment, that's not the case. MUT scales are the worst in that respect.
Could you please take some pics showing the difference between the three you mentioned for us MUTless peeps.

Mate this will have to wait until the weekend, not at home before than...sorry.

Surge and Wave you own already I believe so can take a peek 'under the hood' yourself. As for the MUT, have you seen the second photo in this link: http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2014/07/31/frame-cracks-cause-leatherman-mut-pliers-to-fail/

That's what I'm referring to as the weak link. IMO, this part should be made a little more robust as it's the part which is under quite a lot of stress for those jobs exerting lot of force while squeezing the handles.
Trust me, it isn't weak. IMO, most of the force goes straight down the handle. A small amount pushes back inwards. However it can't go that way as it is wrapped around the plier head. Years ago I sanded too much off the plier cam trying to make it easier to open and close. Even with a hammer I had trouble getting that weak bit to bend in to correct my mistake. I really don't see anyone being able to apply enough force to do damage without it being considered abuse. With the MUT, I think if there was a factory issue or fracture there then the pressure from the plier cam pushing outwards when being opened would be enough to finish the break. I have seen plenty of broken plier jaws but very few broken handles.


nz Offline babola

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #28 on: August 18, 2014, 02:13:31 PM
Time will tell brother. I should be fine though as I hardly use my MT pliers for jobs that would cause me to squeeze the handles so vigorously and forcefully to cause that sort of damage. I like my multi tools far too much to do that to them haha...
EDC and OCD. A wicked mix.


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Interesting link- flaw in MUT pliers?
Reply #29 on: August 19, 2014, 04:12:52 PM
Didn't someone from here break a Wave  :think:  there?

I broke a Wave like that, but I never posted about it on here.

You remember its date stamp?


 

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