More help needed! Making Small/Pocket/Large sized MT comparison video

[comis]

Hi, everyone.  This is a part 2 survey of my ongoing effort to make a through MT comparison videos.


Previously, for mid-size MT comparison video, many have helped and gave great input:

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,54681.0.html

I will be comparing few tools from each major brands featured on our forum here, and tentatively here are my choices for other classes:


Large size tools:
Victorinox:     Swisstool
Leatherman:  Supertool 300/Surge
Gerber:         MP600/Flik
SOG:             Powerlock




Pocket size tools:
Victorinox:    91mm Tinker/Spartan/Huntsman
Leatherman:  Juice S2/CS4
Gerber:          Crucial ??
SOG:             ??




Small size tools:
Victorinox:     Mini Champ?
Leatherman:  Squirt/Micra
Gerber:         Dime
SOG:            Cross-cut




My questions:


1) Do you think these selections are appropriate?  If not, what would you suggest in place and could you please tell why?


2) Which one of the 91mm SAK should we use for comparison?  What would you suggest for SOG in pocket tool?


3) Am I missing any major brand or category that I should really include?

[Corwyn]

I'd pick a Camper/Super Tinker instead... Spartan/Tinker are too limited, Huntsman feels above category.

No Skeletool/Style anywhere? 

[comis]

I'd pick a Camper/Super Tinker instead... Spartan/Tinker are too limited, Huntsman feels above category.

No Skeletool/Style anywhere? 

Good point on the Tinker/Spartan being kinda minimum, but should I take popularity into consideration?  Huntsman might be an honorable mention...

Skeletool...should I skip Juice S4 and put a Skeletool instead?

[AimlessWanderer]

Here's my thoughts ...

Firstly, you seem to have skipped the 4" sized tools entirely, jumping straight from Surge to Juice. Is this intentional?

As to actual tools

Leatherman: ST300 or Rebar, referencing the fact there is another size. Wave/Charge/Surge referencing size again. Might be worth having a Wave/Charge and ST300 or Surge and Rebar so there's a reference for each size. Skeletool and/or Juice for smaller. Squirt /Micra for keyring option

Victorinox:
Swisstool, Spirit, 91mm SAK. Swisschamp allows you to cover a lot of different tools, and the user could then select which (smaller) model they want based on which tools are impotant to them. The Spirit is probably different enough from the Swisstool to warrant both making an appearance. For the small one, I reckon a Rambler - Minichamp has "surplus" stuff that most people won't really be interested in, but of course you could use one and show that a Rambler/Mnager might be a better choice for a lot of people 

Gerber: MP600, referencing there is a smaller variant again in the MP400. Maybe a Balance would be a good offering to put against the Juice. Dime is a good keychain choice for comparison. Maybe an oddball like a Fit too?

SOG: Powerlock. Reference the fact that all the innards are the same even  when the pliers size differs, and you'll save yourself a lot of time repeating yourself Crosscut for small offering. I wouldn't bother trying to pick a SOG for each category for example. SOG makes a limited number of offerings compared to Leatherman, so it doesn't make sense to try and give them the same air time to me. Use the time saved to show and extra Leatherman or Gerber for some diversity

At this stage you really do have a lot of info, and way too much for one video probably. So how about ...

Video 1) Intro of all the tools you're going to look at and a bit about the companies
Video 2) Comparison of all screwdrivers - all tool sizes smallest to largest
Video 3) Knife cutting tests - all tool sizes smallest to largest
Video 4) Saws and files
Video 5) Scissors and pliers
Video 6) A look at some of the other features (chisels, package openers, lights) and overall opinions/scores

You might want to mix up the categories a bit depending on how long you actually spend on each area

Other things you might want to consider is a Wenger 85mm knife to show the differences to Vic (can opener, locking screwdrivers, scissors etc). An IDL T7 or Swiss+Tech little pliers affair with screwdrivers for handles might be a nice thing to add to the small tools. Any other tools from lesser known makers might be worth a quick mention or size/function reference, even if they don't make it into the "testing" stages

It all depends on how much work you want to put into it all I suppose 

[bmot]

Here's my thoughts ...

Firstly, you seem to have skipped the 4" sized tools entirely, jumping straight from Surge to Juice. Is this intentional?

Read again  

Hi, everyone.  This is a part 2 survey of my ongoing effort to make a through MT comparison videos.


Previously, for mid-size MT comparison video, many have helped and gave great input:

http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,54681.0.html

[comis]

@bmot 


@50ft-trad 


Some good suggestions!

The ~4" mid size will probably be the first video to kick off, but while I am doing tests for different tool functions, it make sense to me to conduct all saw test for many tools that I own, so I could make future videos for discussing just the independent tool function.  Given I can stick to what enki_ck suggested, I will try to stick with 10 test per tool, and that's a lot of sawing in the foreseeable future. 

I thought about the Gerber balance for a pocket tool, but I also wonder about the overall length of the tool, I think balance is 3.8", where as Crucial is 3.6"...it's not much of a difference, but comparing to 4", it will be more visible.  I gonna give it more thought whether to use Balance or Crucial(personally, I have neither, but do like Balance as a tool more)

Rambler as a non-alox is probably more easy to get, so it's a good valid point.  I probably should use that instead of a alox minichamp.

How could I forget Wenger!!!   I should consider to include one in the 91mm Victorinox/Wenger lineup.

[AimlessWanderer]

Here's my thoughts ...

Firstly, you seem to have skipped the 4" sized tools entirely, jumping straight from Surge to Juice. Is this intentional?

Read again  

Hi, everyone.  This is a part 2 survey of my ongoing effort to make a through MT comparison videos.


Previously, for mid-size MT comparison video, many have helped and gave great input:

http://forum.multitool.or...ex.php/topic,54681.0.html

Good point 

@comis

to you for doing all this. The only thing that you have put that I personally wouldn't bother with is trying to put SOG in every category. I'd say that that it's worth putting in the Powerlock and Crosscut, but I'm not convinced they're worth more attention. I know what you mean about where to put the Balance. It kind of falls between two categories, but I figure it's size difference to the Juice is a bit like the size difference between a Vic 91mm SAK and a Wenger 85mm

The boundaries and classifications do blur a little for me though, as I consider all of the Wave/Spirit/MP400/Kick/Balance/SAKs/Juice as varying size/duty pocket tools and the Core/Diesel etc as bag/belt tools. I don't split the Wave from the Juice as regards HOW I carry it, but WHY I'd carry it

[enki_ck]

For pocket sized tools:

SOG - probably PPP or Paratool.

Gerber - maybe add a Balance to the mix.

Victorinox and Wenger - I wouldn't go above 4 layers, that's the top I'd consider pocket friendly. So out of those the most common models, Victorinox Explorer or Huntsman, Wenger Forester/Handyman (Evo 17/18)

[Kampfer]

No Skeletool/Style anywhere? 

Skeletool...should I skip Juice S4 and put a Skeletool instead?

Even-though I personally can't stand Juice series, it is proved that Juice is a lot more popular than Skeletool, thanks to Nutnfancy. 
Juice is a must in you video.

[comis]

@comis

to you for doing all this. The only thing that you have put that I personally wouldn't bother with is trying to put SOG in every category. I'd say that that it's worth putting in the Powerlock and Crosscut, but I'm not convinced they're worth more attention. I know what you mean about where to put the Balance. It kind of falls between two categories, but I figure it's size difference to the Juice is a bit like the size difference between a Vic 91mm SAK and a Wenger 85mm

The boundaries and classifications do blur a little for me though, as I consider all of the Wave/Spirit/MP400/Kick/Balance/SAKs/Juice as varying size/duty pocket tools and the Core/Diesel etc as bag/belt tools. I don't split the Wave from the Juice as regards HOW I carry it, but WHY I'd carry it

Just serving the community and fellow MT enthusiasts anyway I can

I agree with you on SOG comment, I do like good representation from all major brands I know, but I agree it is not necessary to include every brand in every category.

For myself, I think the differences between the heavy/full size tool vs mid size vs other small tools are significant, especially weighted on hand.  It is good point if carried by sheath, the difference might not be as prominent, and hopefully the separation will be of service to those whom are very weight conscience(like the hikers).

[comis]

@enki_ck   All very good points, much appreciated!  I just have to give more thought to what to use for the Vic/Wenger presentation.  There are just so many models to choose from, and I'd love to present something that everyone can rely to or plan to get. 

@Kampfer   I share the same sentiment with you on Juice.  I fit Juice actually has a lot of potential, and could be a great line, but personally LM didn't give it the same kind of detail/thought as their Wave/Charge/ST300/Surge line, and it was a bittersweet product for me.  Not to worry, I will consider add in the skeletool, but definitely keeping Juice in the presentation.  I have a few Juices, and just wonder which one or two are best termed as pocket tool(I think XE6 is not appropriate pocket tool, as it is way to heavy as a pocket tool, but pale in comparison to any mid/full sized MT, carried in a sheath) 

[Kampfer]

Cool, if you decided to include Skeletool, make sure you mention that Skeletool is off limits to left handed users.

[Cupboard]

Cool, if you decided to include Skeletool, make sure you mention that Skeletool is off limits to left handed users.

No it isn't!?
You just open the blade with your first finger. I can quite happily OHO things with my left hand, in the same way I can manage my Solider with my right hand.

[enki_ck]

Cool, if you decided to include Skeletool, make sure you mention that Skeletool is off limits to left handed users.

No it isn't!?
You just open the blade with your first finger. I can quite happily OHO things with my left hand, in the same way I can manage my Solider with my right hand.

As a knife it does OK in left handed use, but while using the pliers the shape of it just feels very uncomfortable.

[AimlessWanderer]

Cool, if you decided to include Skeletool, make sure you mention that Skeletool is off limits to left handed users.

No it isn't!?
You just open the blade with your first finger. I can quite happily OHO things with my left hand, in the same way I can manage my Solider with my right hand.

As a knife it does OK in left handed use, but while using the pliers the shape of it just feels very uncomfortable.

but it does that right handed too .....

[comis]

Based on just length, Skeletool doesn't seem to fit in pocket category... but weight wise, it is still somewhat ok.  So should I or should I not include it as a pocket tool comparison candidate?  I don't want to include a tool because it's a novelty or uniqueness, but rather it to be popular and well accepted, so the data is more useful to the owners or future buyers.

[AimlessWanderer]

Based on just length, Skeletool doesn't seem to fit in pocket category... but weight wise, it is still somewhat ok.  So should I or should I not include it as a pocket tool comparison candidate?  I don't want to include a tool because it's a novelty or uniqueness, but rather it to be popular and well accepted, so the data is more useful to the owners or future buyers.

It's very popular with some and hated by others (including me). I'd certainly see it as a pocket tool option (Juice category).

For me, it was one of a string of failures in a hunt for a slim clipped pocket tool. First LM Sideclip, then LM Skeletool, then CRKT Zilla Jr, then CRKT Li'l Guppie,  before finally settling on the Gerber Octane. I'm now in the process of cenverting that to knifeless, which for me will make it better still.

For me the ergonomics of the Skele are utterly horrendous in all uses other than knife, but some people absolutely adore it and consider it the perfect lightweight pocket tool. You either love it or hate it.

[Kampfer]

Just like FRED

[AimlessWanderer]

 

[Kampfer]

Octane that good hum?
Enable me to buy one?

[jerseydevil]

Octane that good hum?
Enable me to buy one?

Enable?  Al would NEVER do that.  Me, on the other hand.....    I much prefer the Octane to the Skeletool.  I got a Skele first, and didn't get along with it at all.  Got my Octane and love it.  Much more comfortable to use, I prefer the dedicated drivers to the 2.5-D bits, and it carries easier IMO.  Try one yourself. 

[AimlessWanderer]

Octane that good hum?
Enable me to buy one?

To be honest the Octane was the best of the bunch for me, but may not be the best for everyone  I find the pliers to be fine for light/medium chores. Can't comment on the wire cutting abilities, as it's not a function I regularly need and can't recall using the Octane for it.

The "large" flat screwdriver is quite small compared to most full sized tools, and to be honest all the drivers would benefit from having a bit of reshaping done with a file/grinder. The Phillips particularly doesn't sit well in screws as the tool comes "out of the box", and the package opener would cut better is it was only ground one side and not both. The knife blade is OK if you don't mind CE, but noting special. The main benefits of the Octane for me are how deep it sits in the pocket on the clip, the medium flicky pliers, how slim and lightweight it is, and having one of the best bottle openers on a multitool in my opinion. Much like the Skeletool's, it's just there ready as soon as the tool is in your hand. I also find it a much more ergonomic tool in pliers mode than any of the other "slimline" models I tried.

EDIT: Reading this back, I realise I might b being a little unfair on the drivers. It all depends what you might need drivers for. Well worth trying, but you might want to touch up the drivers 

[AimlessWanderer]

Octane that good hum?
Enable me to buy one?

Enable?  Al would NEVER do that.  Me, on the other hand.....    I much prefer the Octane to the Skeletool.  I got a Skele first, and didn't get along with it at all.  Got my Octane and love it.  Much more comfortable to use, I prefer the dedicated drivers to the 2.5-D bits, and it carries easier IMO.  Try one yourself. 

Yeah, much as the drivers on the Octane might need a bit of tickling up, the tool is still leaps and bound better than the Skelefool in my opinion 

[Kampfer]

After some research on Octane, I don't think I will like it, but ordered one anyway.
You guys are such enablers.

[AimlessWanderer]

After some research on Octane, I don't think I will like it, but ordered one anyway.
You guys are such enablers.

 

[comis]

Hey, guys, don't leave me hanging here, so should I even bother to include a skeletool, if most majority of us prefer Octane over skeletool(it's definitely shorter and easier to fit in pocket)?

[enki_ck]

Hey, guys, don't leave me hanging here, so should I even bother to include a skeletool, if most majority of us prefer Octane over skeletool(it's definitely shorter and easier to fit in pocket)?

Don't listen to 50ft. He and LM don't get along too well.

There are far, far more people out there who carry a Skeletool and enjoy doing so than there are people who even heard of the Octane.

A Skele should certainly be included in the mix.

[Lichtbote]

I wonder if i should order a Octane - it might give me new munition to bitch over Gerber MTs, the same way as the shabby MP600 did.

But the Skeletool is great. 

[Kampfer]

Hey, guys, don't leave me hanging here, so should I even bother to include a skeletool, if most majority of us prefer Octane over skeletool(it's definitely shorter and easier to fit in pocket)?

Don't listen to 50ft. He and LM don't get along too well.

There are far, far more people out there who carry a Skeletool and enjoy doing so than there are people who even heard of the Octane.

A Skele should certainly be included in the mix.

You are correct sir,
I do noticed 50 doesn't like Leathermans.

[Kampfer]

I wonder if i should order a Octane - it might give me new munition to bitch over Gerber MTs, the same way as the shabby MP600 did.

But the Skeletool is great. 

I have one coming, let's see.