Bike Lights

[JAfromMn]

STUPID Drivers SUCK no matter what there driving.

[Mr. Whippy]

STUPID Drivers SUCK no matter what there driving.

EXACTLY. 

[16VGTIDave]

Def, if my posts are a problem, please feel free to nuke them as you see fit.

Heinz D, I wasn't judging you. As you so correctly point out, I don't know you. If you ever find yourself in the Toronto Ontario area, PM me. I'd be happy to have you out for a beer or coffee, and we can discuss this in person. I was, however, relating the issues I've seen and had with cyclists, and what I believe may be a solution to this issue. I apologize if I offended you, that wasn't my intent. Though, if my description fits your cycling style, I have nothing to apologize for. Either way, dismissing the points I made, because you chose to take insult, does not make them any less valid.

With respect to paying for use of roads, all taxpayers contribute and all reap the benefits, even if they don't ever use a road in any fashion. That said, it is quite clear that motorists (car, trucks, busses, motorcycles, mopeds, etc) pay additional fees directly (vehicle licensing, driver licensing, safety inspections, emissions inspections, fuel taxes, tire taxes, tolls, parking fees, insurance, etc) for the use of the roads. Commercial motorists pay significantly more. Cyclists don't pay ANY of these additional fees. If cyclists don't want to be discriminated against, they should end the discrimination. The argument of having a car and a bicycle "so I've paid" is not a valid argument. I have 2 cars (each with the required licensing and insurance), a motorcycle (with the required licensing and insurance), and a bicycle (with no licensing or insurance). I can only operate one vehicle at a time. I still don't believe that I have a right to ride where ever or however I want to - as compared to many (but not all) cyclists I have been witness to over the years. Again, since I've never met you, this is NOT a personal attack. Unless, by your admission, you match my previous description.

Now, since I believe that one should not be allowed to impose restrictions without offering valid solutions, I offer the following:
-Some areas used to license bicycles for use on roads, and I believe that this practice should be reinstated.
-Cyclists should have to have training, testing, and licensing, like all other road users.
-Cyclists should have to pay for their own insurance.
-Cyclists should have the required safety equipment on their bicycle at all times, like all other road going vehicles.
-Cyclists should obey all of the applicable road laws, not just a few of them (e.g. lane splitting or filtering is illegal in most areas, and while I disagree with this law, I still obey it on my motorcycle and bicycle).

And just to get somewhat back on topic, based on some of the suggestions, I plan on adding a flashing white led light to the front of my bike. This is in addition to the lights, reflectors, and headlamp (off road only) I currently have.

Dave

[Jothra]

Unless I have had many spicy burritos, I do not have to worry too much about bicycle emissions.

[derekmac]

This is why everyone needs to pay attention and be safe.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1265336-cape-breton-teen-dies-after-car-bicycle-crash-saturday#.VMU60WtpC8Y.facebook

[tosh]

Now, since I believe that one should not be allowed to impose restrictions without offering valid solutions, I offer the following:
-Some areas used to license bicycles for use on roads, and I believe that this practice should be reinstated.
-Cyclists should have to have training, testing, and licensing, like all other road users.
-Cyclists should have to pay for their own insurance.
-Cyclists should have the required safety equipment on their bicycle at all times, like all other road going vehicles.
-Cyclists should obey all of the applicable road laws, not just a few of them (e.g. lane splitting or filtering is illegal in most areas, and while I disagree with this law, I still obey it on my motorcycle and bicycle).

And just to get somewhat back on topic, based on some of the suggestions, I plan on adding a flashing white led light to the front of my bike. This is in addition to the lights, reflectors, and headlamp (off road only) I currently have.

Dave

I don't think you've thought this through, no offence 
When one considers that the average child has his\her  first bike from the ages of 4 and then the subsequent years bring the arrival of bigger bikes as the child grows up.
To then say that training, testing, licensing, insurance etc etc should be required by law is frankly a non starter.
What age are you planning on enforcing your "laws"

Most of the idiots on the road (not counting the Sunday riders who churn out in droves!!) are not old enough to drive, drink alcohol, vote etc etc.

I agree that a certain cycling proficiency should be required, but that did use to be the case here in the UK. I remember at primary school during the last year we all had to bring our bikes one evening per week for several weeks. The playgrounds had mock zebra crossings, road markings, traffic lights etc etc.it was all serious stuff, we also had to study the highway code. At the end of the course you had to pass a test to be classed as a proficient cyclist.

Unfortunately it was scrapped years ago.

[Mr. Whippy]

Now, since I believe that one should not be allowed to impose restrictions without offering valid solutions, I offer the following:
-Some areas used to license bicycles for use on roads, and I believe that this practice should be reinstated.
-Cyclists should have to have training, testing, and licensing, like all other road users.
-Cyclists should have to pay for their own insurance.
-Cyclists should have the required safety equipment on their bicycle at all times, like all other road going vehicles.
-Cyclists should obey all of the applicable road laws, not just a few of them (e.g. lane splitting or filtering is illegal in most areas, and while I disagree with this law, I still obey it on my motorcycle and bicycle).

And just to get somewhat back on topic, based on some of the suggestions, I plan on adding a flashing white led light to the front of my bike. This is in addition to the lights, reflectors, and headlamp (off road only) I currently have.

Dave

I don't think you've thought this through, no offence 
When one considers that the average child has his\her  first bike from the ages of 4 and then the subsequent years bring the arrival of bigger bikes as the child grows up.
To then say that training, testing, licensing, insurance etc etc should be required by law is frankly a non starter.
What age are you planning on enforcing your "laws"

Most of the idiots on the road (not counting the Sunday riders who churn out in droves!!) are not old enough to drive, drink alcohol, vote etc etc.

I agree that a certain cycling proficiency should be required, but that did use to be the case here in the UK. I remember at primary school during the last year we all had to bring our bikes one evening per week for several weeks. The playgrounds had mock zebra crossings, road markings, traffic lights etc etc.it was all serious stuff, we also had to study the highway code. At the end of the course you had to pass a test to be classed as a proficient cyclist.

Unfortunately it was scrapped years ago.

Sort of in support of Dave's contention, it would be very easy to make the requirement that to ride a bike on a road with a posted speed over 30 mph (ie 30 and below are exempt), one would have to have proof of training and insurance is certainly doable.

[Jothra]

Interesting that most of these bicycle safety measures involve making it more difficult to be a cyclist, while absolutely not affecting drivers in any way.

[enki_ck]

Now, since I believe that one should not be allowed to impose restrictions without offering valid solutions, I offer the following:
-Some areas used to license bicycles for use on roads, and I believe that this practice should be reinstated.
-Cyclists should have to have training, testing, and licensing, like all other road users.
-Cyclists should have to pay for their own insurance.
-Cyclists should have the required safety equipment on their bicycle at all times, like all other road going vehicles.
-Cyclists should obey all of the applicable road laws, not just a few of them (e.g. lane splitting or filtering is illegal in most areas, and while I disagree with this law, I still obey it on my motorcycle and bicycle).

And just to get somewhat back on topic, based on some of the suggestions, I plan on adding a flashing white led light to the front of my bike. This is in addition to the lights, reflectors, and headlamp (off road only) I currently have.

Dave

I don't think you've thought this through, no offence 
When one considers that the average child has his\her  first bike from the ages of 4 and then the subsequent years bring the arrival of bigger bikes as the child grows up.
To then say that training, testing, licensing, insurance etc etc should be required by law is frankly a non starter.
What age are you planning on enforcing your "laws"

Most of the idiots on the road (not counting the Sunday riders who churn out in droves!!) are not old enough to drive, drink alcohol, vote etc etc.

I agree that a certain cycling proficiency should be required, but that did use to be the case here in the UK. I remember at primary school during the last year we all had to bring our bikes one evening per week for several weeks. The playgrounds had mock zebra crossings, road markings, traffic lights etc etc.it was all serious stuff, we also had to study the highway code. At the end of the course you had to pass a test to be classed as a proficient cyclist.

Unfortunately it was scrapped years ago.

In Croatia all kids have to pass a course to be allowed to drive a bike without adult supervision. They get a certificat and all. They also have to wear helmets.

And if your bike doesn't have front and rear lights, or you drive at night without a reflective vest, you can expect a pretty steep fine.

[Mr. Whippy]

Interesting that most of these bicycle safety measures involve making it more difficult to be a cyclist, while absolutely not affecting drivers in any way.

When one looks at traffic infractions, things like running lights, lane splitting in locales where it isn't allowed, obstructing traffic,  illegal turns, riding under the influence, etc, there are NUMEROUS laws directed at drivers that have little to no real world application to cyclists. 

For example: Do you wear a orange triangle of a slow moving vehicle?  By law, I have to mount one on my tractor when it's on road, why not cyclists? 

I'm just pointing out that cyclists, at least in the US, have been able to skirt laws of the road, claiming to be "pedestrians".  Perhaps that needs to be re-addressed.

[Jothra]

I had a big thing written, but realized it's mostly moot: unless you live somewhere very exceptionally strange, you live in a place that defines bicycles as vehicles (as opposed to motor vehicles), and treats them accordingly.

Familiarizing yourself with your local bicycle laws is basically only a Google search away.

Edit: I have read my province's entire Traffic Safety Act from beginning to end. Most drivers can't say the same.

[AimlessWanderer]

Interesting that most of these bicycle safety measures involve making it more difficult to be a cyclist, while absolutely not affecting drivers in any way.

When one looks at traffic infractions, things like running lights, lane splitting in locales where it isn't allowed, obstructing traffic,  illegal turns, riding under the influence, etc, there are NUMEROUS laws directed at drivers that have little to no real world application to cyclists. 

For example: Do you wear a orange triangle of a slow moving vehicle?  By law, I have to mount one on my tractor when it's on road, why not cyclists? 

I'm just pointing out that cyclists, at least in the US, have been able to skirt laws of the road, claiming to be "pedestrians".  Perhaps that needs to be re-addressed.

I feel sure that if the police in the UK witnessed such traffic violations the cyclist would be pulled over and dealt with. I do have a friend who had a close call with riding under the influence several years ago, and another for speed. As to obstructing traffic, that would apply if the cyclist was hogging the lane when unnecessary to do so. Where I live there are several roads where the condition of the road surface in towards the kerb is in a lesser condition than at the centre of the lane, and I ride close to the kerb when it is safe to do so, and take the lane when it is not. As to illegal turns, there is a road I use on the bike where to go into town I have to turn left, but the junction is ahead only. I cycle to the junction, dismount, push the bike round the corner and get back on 

I am a driver first and foremost, but recently getting a bike has opened my eyes to the cyclists perspective. As mentioned earlier in the thread, idiots transport themselves on two wheels and four, and I am now relearning roadcraft based on the inherrent handicaps of cycling. I find most cyclists here to be "inconvenient" to the motor vehicle driver, but most I come across here (as a driver) have got enough sense to not make a hazard or obstacle of themselves without due cause. The only exception to this would be youths riding around estates/neighbourhoods, but even they are no more arrogant and disrespective on two wheels than they are on foot.

Where cyclists probably have the biggest unfair advantage for getting away with offences, is the growing trend towards policing the roads with traffic cameras. Not having license plates means that a cyclist exceeding speed limits or running red lights would not be identified. I pay road tax for my car, but not for my bike. Again, this would not be enforcable as the police in-car cameras and recognition software has no database of people's arse cracks to identify them by.  For all those who wish to see new laws introduced, or old laws amended to cover pie and chocolate fuelled vehicles, give thought to how those laws can be enforced without doubling the amount of road patrols.

I do however have insurance. If I am in an accident and it is my fault, I have third party liability cover, and if it is not my fault I have legal assistance for me to claim. Have I had my proficiency assessed? No - and if there was a test I would probably fail. I cycle accordingly until my proficiency, experience, and confidence is such that I can exercise more of my legal rights to on-road cycling.

Changing topic lanes quickly though ...  ... here at MTO we are normally very accepting of other people's stances on various topics, but on this one there is a lot of posturing and quite frankly unthinking drivel been spoken. I actually find it rather amusing  Both forms of transport are quite valid, regional laws have been set as to how the relevant authorities think the situation should be managed. Everyone just needs to chill out. There are more perspectives than just yours, and they are not necessarily wrong 

You sound like a bunch of bickering old grannies 

[Jothra]

I try to drive my truck safely, and I try to drive my bicycle safely. It's not as difficult as we're all making it sound.

[AimlessWanderer]

I try to drive my truck safely, and I try to drive my bicycle safely. It's not as difficult as we're all making it sound.

 

[Jothra]

I try to drive my truck safely, and I try to drive my bicycle safely. It's not as difficult as we're all making it sound.

 

 

You can tell this has taken a nice turn, because no-one here has ever seen me use a smiley before. Not one single time.

[enki_ck]

I try to drive my truck safely, and I try to drive my bicycle safely. It's not as difficult as we're all making it sound.

 

 

You can tell this has taken a nice turn, because no-one here has ever seen me use a smiley before. Not one single time.

Didn't you use the once?


Or was it me when you used your multi as a hammer.

[Jothra]

I usually just use Rubric Red^TM for emphasis when I do something horrible like that. It's a throwback to a comic I did when I was still a semi-pro cartoonist working on an education degree.

[ToolJoe]

  I just started using a 300 lumen flashlight strapped to my handle bars with a couple zipties as my bike light.

[JAfromMn]

  I just started using a 300 lumen flashlight strapped to my handle bars with a couple zipties as my bike light.

That my friend is how it starts.

Keep us posted.

 

[16VGTIDave]

Apparently some of the thoughts and ideas posted in this thread are shared by lawmakers in Wyoming: http://www.adventure-journal.com/2015/02/wyoming-moves-to-require-cyclists-to-wear-reflective-neon-carry-id/

Add in requirements for training, licensing, safety inspections, and insurance to legally ride a bicycle on all roads (not highways) with a speed of 50 kph / 30 mph or greater, then "sharing the road" will have some balance.