Leatherman Leap Recalled

[pingu]

Now I really wish I had bought one to play with.  DAMMIT.

Me too and not just to play with.

A few months ago I made a personal decision that my public MT carry would be non-locking for the blade, probably meaning knifeless unless the non-locking was safe by design.  In fact Syph helped my decision.

The Leap would have been a perfect knifeless EDC MT.  No can opener but then I don't consider my Juice S2 has a can-opener. (I carry a P-38 type on my keychain).   Bummed that I didn't buy when I could and no idea why I didn't but looking forward to the Leap Mk 2.

[Breezy12]

I have two of them.

I'll try to play around with one of them this weekend to see if I can duplicate the "issue"...

Nice!

Watch your digits.

I should probably try this out before any beverages are enjoyed...

[zoidberg]

I have two of them.

I'll try to play around with one of them this weekend to see if I can duplicate the "issue"...

Nice!

Watch your digits.

I should probably try this out before any beverages are enjoyed...

Live a little. 

[tosh]

Now I really wish I had bought one to play with.  DAMMIT.

Yes Steve is our best bet for info, unless Tosh has installed his blade?

I haven't opened it, it arrived sealed in a blister carton so don't really want to open it now.

It begs the question.." What on earth was leatherman thinking"  How did it ever get to the production stage without realising the hazard. I mean for kids too, seriously!

Unbelievable!!

[firiki]

It begs the question.." What on earth was leatherman thinking"  How did it ever get to the production stage without realising the hazard. I mean for kids too, seriously!

Unbelievable!!

Exactly that, well, apart from unbelievable. Mistakes make humans but come on, Leatherman! This could have ended very badly. I am reluctant to like their MTs for a number of reasons, the main one being (other than their price in these parts of the world, that is) the persistence on needle-nosed pliers 

Then there was that Funny Watch and all those funky one-piece tools, that I distrust in general. All these things seem to indicate they're at a loss.

Maybe the drive for always making new things doesn't always lead to improvement. I am even more reluctant now.

Sorry for the rant. 

[tosh]

I've just done a internet search on the leap to get a closer look at the blade.
Found this...

http://kitup.military.com/2014/01/leatherman-builds-multi-tool-kids.html

I was unaware that the knife exchange was permanent in that it can never be removed once fitted - As quoted by Scott Boatman (Leatherman planning manager)
Anybody else miss that bit?

[zoidberg]

Looks like Breezy is our only hope. 

As for you two collectors, tsk tsk.     

[Grathr]

It begs the question.." What on earth was leatherman thinking"  How did it ever get to the production stage without realising the hazard. I mean for kids too, seriously!

Unbelievable!!

Exactly that, well, apart from unbelievable. Mistakes make humans but come on, Leatherman! This could have ended very badly. I am reluctant to like their MTs for a number of reasons, the main one being (other than their price in these parts of the world, that is) the persistence on needle-nosed pliers 

Then there was that Funny Watch and all those funky one-piece tools, that I distrust in general. All these things seem to indicate they're at a loss.

Maybe the drive for always making new things doesn't always lead to improvement. I am even more reluctant now.

Sorry for the rant.

Does leatherman make watches too now?


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

[pingu]

How about a close-up picture of the empty pivot area?  Does something fit through the small round hole?

I was one who had early concerns about the open tang (more correctly the weak looking tang) so this is only half wise after the event, but why would LM have designed the blade to be inserted open rather than inserted closed?

Cupboard's early analysis on the forces is interesting.  Would an inserted closed design have been better retained in the open position?  Was that decision entirely predicated on the "safety issue" of sliding off the carrier "safely"?

[zoidberg]

I'm guessing the blade clicks into place like a circlip/e-clip.
It could be that when the liner lock is pressed in to close the blade there is little keeping it in place.
This could play out in a couple different ways.
Intentionally pressing on the lock and hitting the back of the blade to close it and knocking the blade off the pivot.
Unintentionally pressing on the lock while cutting and forcing the blade off the pivot.

It is just a guess.
Hopefully Breezy can work out what's happening.

[kirk13]

Now I really wish I had bought one to play with.  DAMMIT.

Me too and not just to play with.

A few months ago I made a personal decision that my public MT carry would be non-locking for the blade, probably meaning knifeless unless the non-locking was safe by design.  In fact Syph helped my decision.

The Leap would have been a perfect knifeless EDC MT.  No can opener but then I don't consider my Juice S2 has a can-opener. (I carry a P-38 type on my keychain).   Bummed that I didn't buy when I could and no idea why I didn't but looking forward to the Leap Mk 2.

You need a KST or an MP425 

[pingu]

You need a KST or an MP425 

I think I got the (Kirk)MP425 reference thanks to Google and MT.o but I need help with the KST reference .

TBH not sure why I haven't considered that route.  I think it *might* be that I had deemed the Gerber locking mechanism too difficult to defeat safely a year or so ago and switched off Gerber before I made the much more recent "knifeless" decision.  Tried with a EVO and the blade just flopped around.

I have enough EVO parts to make an awl which is requirement #1.  Food for thought.

[Huntsman]

Rats - I really wish I had got one of these - And I really liked them too!
Although the blade that could be inserted - But never come out again - did seem a strange concept.

Those of us who have them already (looking at you - Chako, Tosh, Breezy ++) now have a real, rare, valuble, collectable.
Of course you will never return them to LM - I assume most regular users/customers will.

However - You can never 'cash in' - as you will be committing a federal offense if you sell them - Did you see that in the announcement.

Wonder if that would be enforced - say on ebay - especially if you are not in the US - where presumably there is no juristriction of the US authorities.

[kirk13]

You need a KST or an MP425 

I think I got the (Kirk)MP425 reference thanks to Google and MT.o but I need help with the KST reference .

TBH not sure why I haven't considered that route.  I think it *might* be that I had deemed the Gerber locking mechanism too difficult to defeat safely a year or so ago and switched off Gerber before I made the much more recent "knifeless" decision.  Tried with a EVO and the blade just flopped around.

I have enough EVO parts to make an awl which is requirement #1.  Food for thought.

Kirkys Survival Tool...modded PST's with added awls but blades removed

[pingu]

I need help with the KST reference

[jerseydevil]

I need help with the KST reference

The Kirky Survival Tool. 

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,46346.0.html

[Toolslinger]

Kind of sad. Makes me wonder what kind of Quality Management system they have in place to vet new designs prior to release. Leatherman Quality/Reputation takes another hit .

[pingu]

Unintentionally pressing on the lock while cutting and forcing the blade off the pivot.

I'd put my money on that and is consistent with "lock" and "released" both appearing in the recall notice which I found puzzling at first.  With cutting force applied the blade will "pivot" against the backstop resulting in a turning force resisted by the liner lock.  Portland we have a problem...

I wondered if the tang opening could be on the opposite side thereby preventing blade release from open.  One problem would be premature engagement of the lock at the opening, something I have noted in my Wave hack putting small tools in the outside knife bays, coming to another thread soon.   IMHO not an insoluble problem.

[kirk13]

I need help with the KST reference

The Kirky Survival Tool. 

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,46346.0.html

Cheers Tom

[Lynn LeFey]

This whole thing is a curious and somewhat disappointing development. I don't really have a lot to add, other than that.

I don't consider this a clear trend with Leatherman, and certainly hope it isn't the start of one. That it happened with a tool intended for youth is REALLY worrisome.

[Etherealicer]

Next time they should send some to the PROs here, for Beta-Testing...

[tosh]

I'm still kicking myself for not grabbing the Blue and Green too, Doh!

They were there for the taking, it will bug me for years to come 

[Lynn LeFey]

Next time they should send some to the PROs here, for Beta-Testing...

I specifically asked them for a tool to test/review. No-go. I'm not saying I would have detected the problem that came up, but... meh.

[Breezy12]

Looks like Breezy is our only hope. 

I just spent the last half hour or so playing with one of my Leaps...

the knife pivot prior to having the blade installed:


ready to install the blade:


installation in progress:


blade is now locked into place:


the installation instructions


installed blade with the "open" part of the pivot area visible:


Leap with the blade closed:


now, I have to admit, being able to see the open part of the pivot area on the blade did not exactly inspire confidence... however, I found no issues with the blade coming out after it has been installed.

I put the protective cover back on the blade and REAMED on this thing. I pushed and pulled in all directions with the blade all the way open, partially open, liner lock engaged, liner lock disengaged, etc... I couldn't get it to budge. I really don't think this is the issue.

The issue I discovered is much simpler... take a look at these two shots of the liner lock:





it's pretty clear that in the first image, the liner lock is not fully engaged. I'd estimate that this happens about 50% of the time when deploying the blade, especially if the blade is deployed slowly or gently. I noticed if I used more force when opening, or pushed on the blade after opening, I could see the lock click into place.

I tested it plenty of times and confirmed that when the liner lock is only partially engaged (like the first pic), the blade will close on your fingers. (but if the lock fully engages like in the second pic, the blade is safely locked into the open position.)

Now, obviously Leatherman has been designing liner locks for years without any problems, so I'm not entirely sure what happened here. Keep in mind that the lock is designed to be disengaged by pressing on the plastic tab on the outside of the handle (so that kids' fingers don't have to be in the blade path when closing the knife). perhaps the plastic nub that extends from the tab and presses the liner lock in is providing just enough pressure to prevent the lock from fully engaging? I'm honestly not sure.

However, I will definitely tip my hat to whoever designed the pivot area of the removable blade. the blade literally just snaps into place, and like I said, I put it through some fairly rigorous testing and couldn't get it to budge once installed.

Watch your digits.

I am happy to announce that there was no bleeding involved in this testing.

[Etherealicer]

I am happy to announce that there was no bleeding involved in this testing.

Are you sure you did it right?

Thanks for this insightful review , excellent job.

[Chako]

 

[zoidberg]

Thanks Breezy. 

Can you remove the blade by using a screwdriver to push the liner lock over and reverse the install order?

Or is there something else that holds it in there?

[Syph007]

Thanks for the awesome pics and explanation!  Seems like you solved the mystery.   

[pingu]

Great work.

One thing still bugs me though.  I notice the substantial flat on the pivot and assume the blade clips over the flat and when rotated is dimensionally secure.  However I also assume some modest "distortion" is required to get it to clip on.  What is to prevent similar force causing an "unclip" when the flat and the opening are aligned?

[dks]

I have an unused skeletool where if you open the blade slowly the linerlock will only engage partially. I have also seen this on other linerlocks. It seems to be more of a QC issue rather than a design issue.
Maybe there were a few that had serious problems so the whole line had to be withdrawn.