The un-folding folder?

[cbl51]

In a long life of knife carrying and using, I have come up against the question many times; "To fold or not to fold?"

As a senior citizen, I can rightfully say I grew up in those very uncomplicated times in the aftermath of WW2. If you had a car, it was a 90% chance it was made in Ameica, you went to a job 9 to 5, had meat load for dinner once a week, and a man named Ike was in the white house. In those days, there was no weapon demonizing, and all men who had pants on had a pocket knife in one of those pants pockets. A heck of a lot of womenfolk had a small pocket knife in a purse too. The knife was invariably  a small two bladed jack or pen knife of the slip joint type. Loocking folders were scarce in those days, mostly being restricted to the james dean rebel eye-talion switchblade.

Then Buck came pout with the 110 in 1964, and nothing was ever the same again.

Being from that era, I guess I could never quite gt a grip on the idea of a large single blade knife as an edc pocket knife. Being a boy scout pre-Buck knife meant the knife I grew up carrying was a boy scout knife. Basicly what I ended up carrying most of my life in either army issue demo knife or SAK pioneer guise.

But then, if one needed more knife than the small pocket knife, there was the so called "Huntin' knife". The sheathed knife on the hip. The knife that didn't fold. Today, we see folders made for the military, for hunting, even for personal defense, something I don't understand at all. I guess I don't understand the quest for the most powerful lock on a blade. The axis lock, the frame lock, and so on. Why not just carry a knife that won't fold on you in the first place?

I see the idea of the pocket fixed blade put out often, and I wonder why with knives that will fit in  a pocket sheath and all, why bother with some overly complex locking knife that may fail in a high stress situation?

The people of the Scandinavian countries have developed a culture of just carrying a puuko for all seasons. I've done it, and it seems a good solution to the problem of the unfolding knife. We are now living in a golden age of knives, so with small fixed blades  as different as the eese's and the Boker gnome, why bother with an expensive overhyped folding knife?

I've been carrying a pocketknife for 60 years now, and I can honestly say I have never had a situation where I was under knifed, and didn't have a nice old fashioned sheath knife on hand. If you're expecting to be off in the woods or in any situation that can turn into a survival thing, would you not have a more suitable tool on hand? And do you really want to use a folding knife for a hunting knife and get blood and tissue down in all those carnies that may not clean out well?

I guess I just don't understand the new knife culture of the highly hyped tactical folder thing.

Folding knife:


unfolding knife:

[Kampfer]

I am guessing here, the law sees folders are tools, one can Concealed carry one (in folded position) any time any where (except some special places like court house airport, school etc...) while the law requires fixed blade to be open carry....

[ducttapetech]

I got not nothing against folders. Hell I carry one. And I love them. Tactical or not. Makes for a good strong knife in a small package. Also, I can carry it in my pocket. Now for hunting and woodcrafting, fixed all the way. Some don't like folders. Some love them.Some want to make me try to justify carrying one. Myself, I love them. There quick, solid, and they are great for long use.

[Grathr]

Farmers and tradesmen carry fixedblades in the town I live all the time. And noone lifts an eyebrow if I carry a traditional scandi fixedblade on my belt in my hunting clothes.
If I would carry the same knife in my belt in my normal clothes in a bigger city, I will probably get arrested.


Sent from a device made from star dust using tapatalk

[matzesu]

Some months ago, i carryd a non folder (Nieto 10 cm) and a Folder (Wenger Evogrip) to a Barbeque, but went to the wenger to open up my bagels, because its blade is just thinner, so its works a lot better for this task..

The Non Folder is great for task were it will get dirty, like cutting some sausage etc, because you can make it easely clean because there arent no mechanikal parts..

I was a Scouts leader, and whe usaly carryd Fixed Knifes, but in the normal World, i would prefer a good lookable Folder..

In our young days at the boyscouts, a big fixed was something like a status symbol

[AimlessWanderer]

Well cbl51, I'm a good few years younger than you my friend, and from a completely different background too .... but I absolutely agree with you 

I do have a couple of locking folders, but to be honest a slipjoint (or spring knife as they were called by the local cutlers here) is what I would rather have in my pocket. A lock doesn't just give a false sense of security, but has actually caused me more minor injuries than a blade with no lock at all. It also slows me down. With a traditional spring backed folder, I can close the knife instantly without having to activate some release mechanism which often means having to put fingers of thumb in the path of the blade is unavoidable. To me, locks are a complete misnomer, which impares bladecraft, and leads their user to believe they are safer than they are - which is never a good thing. They've even ruined 85mm SAKs with them  One hand opening knives can be a tremendous benefit to a lot of people in many circumstance, but a lock is totally different in my opinion. I honestly do not get why people have such a dependence on them.

It's almost like people are frightened of using non-locking knives. GUESS WHAT - YOU SHOULD BE!!! That's where the respect for the blade comes from which teaches you how to use it safely. Pretending a knife becomes safe because it locks, makes the situation worse not better, and all locking blades should be handled and used as if they DON'T lock. If you can't do a task on that basis, you've either got more to learn, or you should be using a fixed blade. I really don't mean to be condescending, but I genuinely do find the dependence on locks by the majority of knife users that frustrating.

I can safely make forward piercing cuts with a slippy, even on such as a single blade Sheffield Barlow where the point of the knife is forward of the hinge. I can safely use the tip of that knife to drill a hole if I wanted to. How? Pinch the blade insteaad of holding the handle ... and guess what ... I do the same if it's a locking blade because I don't trust the lock. So for me the lock just makes the job harder and LESS safe, because I learned how to use knives without the aid of the so called safety feature, and it offers me no benefit whatsoever.

As for fixed blades, they are indeed what I go for if I think non-locking blades (and therefore locking folders too) are not suitable for the task. I've used fixed blades (belt knives/sheath knives, call them what you will) when cooking at friends houses who I knew had the worlds worst kitchen knives, I've used them at BBQs, I've used them for DIY, wood processing for fuel at the boat, as a safety precaution when out on a boat trip (ropes kill!!!), for defouling propellors, for food gathering and preparation when out hiking or camping as I know I can get that clean instead of having residue hiding in the hinge of a folder, gumming it up as well as breeding nasties. I've laid flooring, made porthole surrounds, eased sticking gates and doors, made stakes and tent pegs - heck, I even used one to dig holes with when it was all I had to hand

However, on the topic of a fixed blade knife that will go in your pocket, I'm not entirely sure I see the point of that. I do have a Hartsook, and a CRKT Ritter SK5 or whatever it's called, and a couple of other knives which I have previously thrown in mini kits of various descriptions, but they all seem to be rather lacking on the handle, which for me is quite an important part of a knife  If I can manage a task with a knife that hardly has a handle, I'm pretty certain I can handle it even better with a non-locking folder that has got a handle. I'm struggling to foresee a job where a fixie with only a two finger grip would be better than a slippie with full hand control .... but maybe that's an area of knife use I've not encountered yet

A long winded reply, I know ... sorry.  However it is something I feel passionately about, and something I have expressed here previously. I just don't like to think that people are relying on safety features that I don't consider safe at all.

[glorn]

I carry a Mora Companion on my bag, and a Vic OH Sentinel in my right front pants pocket every day. I don't think the Vic is tactical whatsoever, though it does lock. And the Mora is.. well.. rather boring really.

I don't like knives that look like they are made to be weapons. Having a decent locking folder and a fixed just makes sense to me. I do not want to do any heavy food prep with a folding knife. I do not want to use the Mora to open a package.

-shrug-

Folks who want to carry large tactical looking folders are more than welcome. To each their own I suppose. But I don't need that, and I don't need the hassle of having a "weapon" on me (as some perceive such knives).   

[ducttapetech]

So.....why are people scared of locking folders or why do people want to rag on people who do use them. It is just a style of knife. Some like SAKs, some like Spyderco or SOG. Some prefer fixed blades. Yes some carry for them "weapons" and some of carry them because they are sweet blades to use. And yes the lock help make them a little safer. And any good knife user knows that even a lock can fail and a fixed blade can break and a SAK/slipjoint can fail. People like what they like. So use want you want and enjoy.

[nate j]

I too like fixed blades, and wish openly carrying one around town was more socially acceptable.

One hand opening knives can be a tremendous benefit to a lot of people in many circumstance, but a lock is totally different in my opinion.

While not all OHO knives lock, having a lock can be a significant design advantage for a OHO knife.  Without a lock, the back spring tension must be carefully balanced, i.e. too strong and the knife will be slow and difficult to open one-handed; too weak, and the knife feels "mushy", and the odds of accidental closure increase.  A lock provides the best of both worlds in this scenario, then:  the back spring itself can be made quite weak, which facilitates easy and quick one-hand opening; while the lock ensures the knife feels "solid" when open and provides additional resistance to accidental closure.

all locking blades should be handled and used as if they DON'T lock

^^ Sound advice there

[cool123]

I able not against folding knives but I want to say that folding knives cannot prove to be tactical at time. I think that fixed blade knives are the best for fast assistance and is a perfect tactical tool as well.

[captain spaulding]

I able not against folding knives but I want to say that folding knives cannot prove to be tactical at time. I think that fixed blade knives are the best for fast assistance and is a perfect tactical tool as well.

True. Some states make it illegal to conceal a fixed blade though.

[Kin-Luu]

You are not allowed to carry a locking, one hand opening folding knife arond where I live. But fixed blades are completely fine, as long as their blade is not longer than 12 cm (~4.7 inch). So if you want to carry a knife, you can either go for a two hand opening SAK- or Opinel-style knife (locking or not), or for a fixed blade. Or both.

I currently experiment a little bit with small fixed blade knives, and so far I am really liking it. Although I might have to add, that I do not really 'EDC' a knife (apart from my keychain tool), I only carry one if I go for a hike, or something like that.

[AimlessWanderer]

So.....why are people scared of locking folders or why do people want to rag on people who do use them. It is just a style of knife. Some like SAKs, some like Spyderco or SOG. Some prefer fixed blades. Yes some carry for them "weapons" and some of carry them because they are sweet blades to use. And yes the lock help make them a little safer. And any good knife user knows that even a lock can fail and a fixed blade can break and a SAK/slipjoint can fail. People like what they like. So use want you want and enjoy.

Scared? No no no. Like I said before, I do have a few locking knives, and of course some of my multitools have locking blades too. I just get frustrated about how fixated people get about locks, and about how folks consider them safer when I have found the opposite to be true. I suppose I'm just as fixated about my preferred type of knife as other people are about theirs 

I too like fixed blades, and wish openly carrying one around town was more socially acceptable.

One hand opening knives can be a tremendous benefit to a lot of people in many circumstance, but a lock is totally different in my opinion.

While not all OHO knives lock, having a lock can be a significant design advantage for a OHO knife.  Without a lock, the back spring tension must be carefully balanced, i.e. too strong and the knife will be slow and difficult to open one-handed; too weak, and the knife feels "mushy", and the odds of accidental closure increase.  A lock provides the best of both worlds in this scenario, then:  the back spring itself can be made quite weak, which facilitates easy and quick one-hand opening; while the lock ensures the knife feels "solid" when open and provides additional resistance to accidental closure.

all locking blades should be handled and used as if they DON'T lock

^^ Sound advice there

Having a lock can make them easier to open ...  ... yeah, I can see what you mean there.
You'd never get a flipper to work on a slippie I suppose 

"provides additional resistance to accidental closure" ... That sounds so much better than "lock" to me 

[cbl51]

I able not against folding knives but I want to say that folding knives cannot prove to be tactical at time. I think that fixed blade knives are the best for fast assistance and is a perfect tactical tool as well.

True. Some states make it illegal to conceal a fixed blade though.

And that is my problem. As much as I love a small fixed blade, they are in the state of Mayland, illegal to conceal in pocket. Which is insane when you consider the pen knife law here. In Maryland, any knife that is not a "Switchblade" is classed as a pen knife with NO limit on size. I can carry a Opinel number 12 or a foot long folding machete in a pocket, but my tiny little Buck Hartsook is technically an illegal concealed knife! I can only conclude that the inmates are running the asylum in the state capital.

I would love to just leave the pocket knives home and just carry a small fixed glad for every day use, but it's hard. I do carry a knife sheathed on my belt when we go woods rambling/hiking, fishing. But to me, a small fixed blade in the pocket makes more sense than a folding knife with a lock. It's soooo day to just grab the Hartsook and pull out and use, then put back in sheath. No unfolding, folding, no lock to fail. Easy to clean off.

I once saw a lock fail, and it was spectacular in a very gruesome way. A young man at the shop where I worked was using his Buck knife in a unsafe manner. A couple of the older guys warned him to 'knock it off", but his response was "It's a Buck knife, it'll be fine." Just after lunch it wasn't fine, and his right index finger was neatly amputated with much squirting of blood all over. The shop forman ran up to the cafeteria and got a styrofoam cup of ice and put the finger in it and it went with him to the ER. It even got reattached. The kid was fired of c pure for violating the shop safety rules.

Folders, no matter what locking mechanism, are a knife that is already broken in the middle.

[flipe8]

In theory, I like the idea of carrying a small pocket-sized fixed blade, but haven't been able to comfortably bring it to reality. It just feels off to me. Perhaps the right combination of knife and sheath is the answer, but a lot of it also has to do with public perception. Carrying in the woods is one thing, but carrying a fixed blade displayed for all to see in the middle of a city core seems out of place, IMO.

[Kin-Luu]

In theory, I like the idea of carrying a small pocket-sized fixed blade, but haven't been able to comfortably bring it to reality. It just feels off to me. Perhaps the right combination of knife and sheath is the answer, but a lot of it also has to do with public perception. Carrying in the woods is one thing, but carrying a fixed blade displayed for all to see in the middle of a city core seems out of place, IMO.

A small fixed completely disappears in the pocket. Or under the tshirt/sweater/jacket, if worn horizontally on the belt.