Where is the line between preparedness and insanity?

[Lynn LeFey]

I'm seeing a lot of spin-off discussion in the 'which tool would you pick for X scenario' threads, and thought maybe it'd be good to have this discussion here.

I'm going to go out on a limb with another of my views that probably won't sit well with some folks. I am not a fan of fixed blade knives. I don't see the point. I have never, and I mean NEVER needed one outside of my kitchen. I think if people are going into serious wilderness conditions, they might serve a function, but I see TONS of 72-hour kits pushing fixed blades. I think a locking blade will do you. I've batoned with a Vic Farmer and Rucksack, and with the Leatherman Sidekick. I can't think of a function I CAN'T do with a locking blade that I COULD do with an equivalent size fixed blade.

Not trying to torque people off on the fixed blade comment, just using it as an example.

Where does preparedness become insanity in your opinion?

[Higgins617]

Where does preparedness become insanity in your opinion?

When it begins to dictate your life, pertaining more to the doomsday type prepping if that's what you were referring to. There's no point in devoting that much effort trying to be so prepared to protect your life that you miss out on actually getting a chance to live it while you're here, it isn't a very long thing unfortunately.

As to the fixed blade idea, I don't think it is anything more than further experimentation with the best way to get daily chores done. For me it makes not a lick of sense, but for someone who is constantly using their blade and using it hard, I can see the merit. Though I don't see walking around with a 5 inch fixed on your hip as a very logical option in anything but the woods.

Everyone loves new toys once in a while, something to really change it up and give a break from what they've become accustomed to.

Just my thoughts.

[glorn]

Where I live, in the city, the woods is a short drive away. You could easily find yourself there, and I'd rather have a fixed if I needed to do woods work.

Otherwise, it is a practical knife that won't fold on me during hard use. I also do use it for food preparation,  as I hate cleaning a folder or being without a good knife when needed.

It is just a Mora Companion, so it isn't terribly flashy, large,  or heavy.  Easy to keep on hand.

I was once faced with several pounds of citrus to cut up, and nobody had a real knife. I was grateful for the Mora. Not exactly a survival task, but then that isn't why I carry it.

[Aloha]

Higgins nailed it.

Everyone uses fixed blades in one manner or another.  Theres a reason why kitchen knives are fixed and Glorn touched on it, ability to clean it.  I worked as a chef for many years and sadly I can say that my lessor expensive knives were used as multitools.  The spine on some can attest to this and there was never a fear of the knife folding on me. 

Hunting applications, fishing, trekking, those who enjoy bushcrafting outdoor activities, camping, backpackers who do overnighters.


A simpler answer for some is variety.  I'd say carrying a fixed blade in an outdoor environment is a smart choice.  One need not be in a critical outdoor situation to have a fixed blade.  I carry fixed blades when outdoors hiking and camping and wouldn't trust a folder in these environments.  Pivots will fail at some point no matter how strong the locking mechanism. 


Prepping can be a hobby for some like anything but I have seen it taken over some peoples lives sadly.         

[Zed]

I still wonder what pc plod would say if i carried my mora in my backpack while mtb'ing    i mean i could have a crash late one night in the middle of nowhere and need a knife but since your never far from civilization were i live i guess its overkill ,shame as love my hultafor hk and mora 746 but they dont see much action 

[Higgins617]

I still wonder what pc plod would say if i carried my mora in my backpack while mtb'ing    i mean i could have a crash late one night in the middle of nowhere and need a knife but since your never far from civilization were i live i guess its overkill ,shame as love my hultafor hk and mora 746 but they dont see much action 

What's wrong with doing that? I always keep a knife in my pack when I ride, though not fixed, I'd just make sure you have it in a very solid sheath god forbid you fall on your back and have it end poorly.

[Aloha]

It seems like many so called average preppers have a good handle on things.  I posted "how long would you survive" and interestingly most would survive about the same amount of time based on the responses.

For some prepping has become all consuming and with anything isn't "all consuming" where the issue is?  If you live in a area that is prone to natural or unnatural disasters then being able to wait it out in relative comfort is a good thing IMO.

Where "INSANITY" comes to mind are the folks who build these compounds and devote their every waking moment to this project.  Like Higgings said, they forget to actually enjoy daily life ( or so it seems ).

I was intending on piggybacking on my thread was,

Having a supply of food and water is great BUT lets be honest with ourselves.  What about addictions?  I sure hope those have been accounted for.  I'm not judging but alcohol, cigarette, not to mention recreational usage of drugs must be accounted for at some point.  What about physical preparedness?  You got your get home bag and now what?  Can you actually get home?  Can you walk X mile back home?  What about those who consume many more calories than needed?  Sitting around waiting for the crisis to be over can lead to eating out of boredom. 

 

   

 

[Etherealicer]

I don't care how much time people spend on prepping. For some its a life style and they like doing it and that makes it OK, even if the reason they like it is, that it gives them a false sense of importance.

For me it ends if it affects other people (and that includes the children / wife).
Dangerous materials. Seriously, its not safe to store a dozen barrels of gasoline in your house. If you do that in an urban area its insane.
Spreading panic. Especially, in the group of the pandemic preppers there seem to be a lot "nut jobs". Self thought "speSmurfpillst" that have no clue what they are talking about and they spread panic with their pseudo-science, when in fact the the threat is the spreading of their ignorance.

[Higgins617]

It seems like many so called average preppers have a good handle on things.  I posted "how long would you survive" and interestingly most would survive about the same amount of time based on the responses.

For some prepping has become all consuming and with anything isn't "all consuming" where the issue is?  If you live in a area that is prone to natural or unnatural disasters then being able to wait it out in relative comfort is a good thing IMO.

Where "INSANITY" comes to mind are the folks who build these compounds and devote their every waking moment to this project.  Like Higgings said, they forget to actually enjoy daily life ( or so it seems ).

I was intending on piggybacking on my thread was,

Having a supply of food and water is great BUT lets be honest with ourselves.  What about addictions?  I sure hope those have been accounted for.  I'm not judging but alcohol, cigarette, not to mention recreational usage of drugs must be accounted for at some point.  What about physical preparedness?  You got your get home bag and now what?  Can you actually get home?  Can you walk X mile back home?  What about those who consume many more calories than needed?  Sitting around waiting for the crisis to be over can lead to eating out of boredom. 

 

 

I know you weren't trying to, but you made me laugh with that one. It's too true, you can have all the gear in the world, but if the most important tool(your body) is neglected, then you might as well have not even bothered. I'm glad you brought that up.

[Aloha]

It seems like many so called average preppers have a good handle on things.  I posted "how long would you survive" and interestingly most would survive about the same amount of time based on the responses.

For some prepping has become all consuming and with anything isn't "all consuming" where the issue is?  If you live in a area that is prone to natural or unnatural disasters then being able to wait it out in relative comfort is a good thing IMO.

Where "INSANITY" comes to mind are the folks who build these compounds and devote their every waking moment to this project.  Like Higgings said, they forget to actually enjoy daily life ( or so it seems ).

I was intending on piggybacking on my thread was,

Having a supply of food and water is great BUT lets be honest with ourselves.  What about addictions?  I sure hope those have been accounted for.  I'm not judging but alcohol, cigarette, not to mention recreational usage of drugs must be accounted for at some point.  What about physical preparedness?  You got your get home bag and now what?  Can you actually get home?  Can you walk X mile back home?  What about those who consume many more calories than needed?  Sitting around waiting for the crisis to be over can lead to eating out of boredom. 

 

 

I know you weren't trying to, but you made me laugh with that one. It's too true, you can have all the gear in the world, but if the most important tool(your body) is neglected, then you might as well have not even bothered. I'm glad you brought that up.

I have watched some pretty AMAZING ( sarcasm ) pantries of preppers.  WTF is their mentality with all the junk foods.  Ding dongs, chips, high sodium food, and fricken candy.  I get it that some is purely for comfort but WOW.  I've seen sodas up the wahoo stored and gas and ammo within very close proximity.  It's a good laugh to watch but when I see the people I wonder, what if they had to evacuate?  Man they'd be so smurfed.

     
To what Ether posted I also agree.  Live an let live but there does come a point where dangerous conditions are a big issue. 

[Lichtbote]

Most of the "insane" hardcore preppers i´ve seen on TV were fully set on one plan - to stay behind that what they´ve build. Evacuation seems never to be any option, so no fitness is needed.

On the other hand - when it comes to unknown and hurting hardship, i´ve seen breaking otherwise fit and trained persons, where not so trained persons stayed on. Trained long distance runners that started whining on their "broken back" due to carrying 30-40Kg. heavy packed bulls that had oh so bad hurting legs. They were so confident in being fit, but it´s another fitness - as soon as bodyparts were hurting they weren´t used to ..... big crying. 

After your blood blisters popped open it´s not really a question of fitness (some of it surely helps), more of your will to get over the full distance. 

[AimlessWanderer]

Where does preparedness become insanity in your opinion?

Buying a Les Stroud Multitool 

 

Beyond that, I think most of the preppers vary from sensible (according to their needs and potential risks) to completely delusional (rather than insane), but if those self-developed delusions give them some comfort and self-worth, then let them get on with it I say.

I have a lot of fixed blade knives which have been used often as working tools. Gardening/landscaping, fuel and kindling prep/grading for log burners and woodburning cooking range, cooking/food prep, DIY, boating. If I go hiking or camping, my fixed blade knives are primarily for food prep, as I don't go anywhere that would justify or be appropriate for lighting a fire .... but that and other tools may one day prove to be useful in other tasks should unforeseen circumstances arise. As a smoker, fire lighting capabilities are always very high on my list of daily priorities too 

If I do go out on a hike, boat trip, long distance drive, driving in winter when poor weather is expected .... then I will have a bit of back up gear - but I don't think in terms of "24hr/72hr survival pack" as folks on the net seem to think is needed - I just have a few appropriate bits of kit/clothes/provisions to make things a bit easier if things go awry - more than a lot of other people in my social circle would carry, but then sometimes they're just lucky to have anything more than phone, keys and maybe wallet on them. 

I cannot light a fire by friction .... I don't want to have to try. If that's the only way of lighting a fire, I'd probably be better off diverting the time and energy into improvising an alternate solution which means I don't need fire, or at least finding a better source of ignition. I don't have a fully comprehensive FAK with field surgeon equipment and appropriate training as I'll just pass out/throw up/run away from the sight of blood anyway  As I've already eluded to, some people have to prep for possibility (potential risk), some people need to prep for reality (probable risk), and it appears some others have to prep primarily for validity of themselves

[David]

The over zealous preppers dont concern me. What does is the kool-aid drinking Pollyanna's. They are the one's who will cause the most problems when thing start going pear shaped.     

[Zed]

I still wonder what pc plod would say if i carried my mora in my backpack while mtb'ing    i mean i could have a crash late one night in the middle of nowhere and need a knife but since your never far from civilization were i live i guess its overkill ,shame as love my hultafor hk and mora 746 but they dont see much action 

What's wrong with doing that? I always keep a knife in my pack when I ride, though not fixed, I'd just make sure you have it in a very solid sheath god forbid you fall on your back and have it end poorly.

Ive always carried a mt or sak riding and if stopped i could get my case across,but a fixed  although i cant see me needing a fixed blade while on the trail plus never been stopped by mr plod but you never know 

[Etherealicer]

The over zealous preppers dont concern me. What does is the kool-aid drinking Pollyanna's. They are the one's who will cause the most problems when thing start going pear shaped.     

They do concern me, as I don't like armed zealots of any variety. When does the neighbor coming over to ask for sugar become a looter?

[dks]

As with most matters, you are not insane as long as you look good doing it..
Some pictures to clarify the above point.

INSANE:


SANE:

[ducttapetech]

I take it you don't hunt Lynn?
How much is to much, probably at the same level as our multi obsession, LMOA!

A fixed blade is the safest blade to use. No locks to fail. No springs to snap or blades to fold on you. Also, as you said, you only use one in the kitchen. When I am out in the woods, it is also, my kitchen. Fixed blades are also easier to clean. Especially after field dressing game. You can baton with a Vic, or locking blade, god knows I have, but I can baton bigger pieces and work the blade harder on my Mora than any of those including my SOG Vulcan. And that knife has been worked hard. Fiixed blade are great for regular work too. There are one handed opening. Sturdy and again, easy to clean up after a job.
Some like fixed blades, some don't. Me, I see the point of them.

[David]

The over zealous preppers dont concern me. What does is the kool-aid drinking Pollyanna's. They are the one's who will cause the most problems when thing start going pear shaped.     

They do concern me, as I don't like armed zealots of any variety. When does the neighbor coming over to ask for sugar become a looter?

When they get hungry and can not feed their family. Desperate hungry people do bad things.

[Etherealicer]

The over zealous preppers dont concern me. What does is the kool-aid drinking Pollyanna's. They are the one's who will cause the most problems when thing start going pear shaped.     

They do concern me, as I don't like armed zealots of any variety. When does the neighbor coming over to ask for sugar become a looter?

When they get hungry and can not feed their family. Desperate hungry people do bad things.

No, I rather mean that zealous preppers might mistake an innocent request for sugar as an attempt to loot because the have lost connection to reality.
Stupid Zealots do bad things too.

[David]

The over zealous preppers dont concern me. What does is the kool-aid drinking Pollyanna's. They are the one's who will cause the most problems when thing start going pear shaped.     

They do concern me, as I don't like armed zealots of any variety. When does the neighbor coming over to ask for sugar become a looter?

When they get hungry and can not feed their family. Desperate hungry people do bad things.

No, I rather mean that zealous preppers might mistake an innocent request for sugar as an attempt to loot because the have lost connection to reality.
Stupid Zealots do bad things too.

Agreed. I guess it pays to know your neighbors.

[ducttapetech]

Or get better ones.

[Lynn LeFey]

Or get better ones.

This is expensive. Ask me how I know.

BUt... OH so worth it.

[David]

Or get better ones.

This is expensive. Ask me how I know.

BUt... OH so worth it.

Lynn I seem to remember a thread about a certain neighbor.        Hope things are better now.

[lister]

There is one? 

I for one consider myself quite crazy just for EDC-ing all the stuff that I do.  ... But not all kinds of crazy are bad. 

[ducttapetech]

Or get better ones.

This is expensive. Ask me how I know.

BUt... OH so worth it.

I have a cheaper method that works. None at all. Seems to be working pretty good so far. ;D

[comis]

I take it you don't hunt Lynn?
How much is to much, probably at the same level as our multi obsession, LMOA!

A fixed blade is the safest blade to use. No locks to fail. No springs to snap or blades to fold on you. Also, as you said, you only use one in the kitchen. When I am out in the woods, it is also, my kitchen. Fixed blades are also easier to clean. Especially after field dressing game. You can baton with a Vic, or locking blade, god knows I have, but I can baton bigger pieces and work the blade harder on my Mora than any of those including my SOG Vulcan. And that knife has been worked hard. Fiixed blade are great for regular work too. There are one handed opening. Sturdy and again, easy to clean up after a job.
Some like fixed blades, some don't. Me, I see the point of them.

I don't hunt, but I can fully appreciate the fixed blade in the wilderness, especially if it involves wood prep.  For hunter, I could imagine a one piece blade(no handle) with the right blade shape and grind will be so much easier to maintain and clean up, vs folding knives or knife with intricate designs.


About fixed blade vs folding knife, there is never a doubt in my mind that a folding knife could never replace a well built fixed blade in most wilderness usage.  However, I believe a good survival kit is a comprehensive set of items, all self-contained, that will lead me to rescue. 

There may be a fair degree of redundancy to all the gears outside of the kit, but hack, if they could really save my life or make it easier, I won't mind a single bit about that.  Some folks may entertain the idea of having a 3in fixed blade(yes, 1.5in edge) in a small survival kit and do take the fixed blade idea literally...but having a well built tool like Vic Farmer or Trekker will beat those 1.5in edged knife by a million years, especially for building shelter and fire in an efficient manner.
 

[Lynn LeFey]

I have been contemplating this for a bit, and I think I understand what's going on.

Ducttapetech, you posted in the 'I Like...' thread, 'Bushcraft'.

And there's the issue. You're viewing 'preparedness' as the same as 'bushcraft'. My preparedness has nothing to do with wilderness survival. No Hunting, no bushcraft. I take food with me.

Any scenario I can come up with that would require a fixed blade knife in a 72-hour time period is about on the same likelihood as needing scuba gear.

Bushcraft skills are interesting, but they're not exactly 'practical'. Instead of mucking with friction fire, ferro rod fire, etc. Throw in a lighter. Lighters fail? Throw in two. Check them and replace them as needed. Need a fixed blade knife for hunting? Why? WHY are you hunting when you should be concentrating on getting somewhere (ideally a bug out location). Why not just carry food? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I freely grant that having bushcraft skills allows resources to be stretched, sometimes for quite a while. But then you have to wonder what the timeframe is between 'prepared' and 'insane'. I plan for 72+ hours. that '+' is maybe a few more days, stretching things.

I'm not illiterate in the ways of bushcraft, and I'm certainly no master, but there is NO 'run to the hills' option for me, or anyone really within a hundred miles of me in this state. There's only 'run to the corn field'. And if even a fraction of other people had the same 'run for the hills' plan here, then every stretch of woods would be more like an RV park on a major holiday weekend than 'rugged wilderness'.

That being said, I don't have a problem with small fixed blade knives. I thing Miraknivs are about everything I love in gear: inexpensive, reliable, and light. Every video I see of people carrying much bigger knives than that, and I keep hearing the dubious 'self defense' claim pop up. 

And FWIW, Im probably going to get a Mora for a friend of mine for HIS BOB.

For me, I remain unconvinced that I need more than a lockblade 111mm SAK.

[AimlessWanderer]

I have been contemplating this for a bit, and I think I understand what's going on.

Ducttapetech, you posted in the 'I Like...' thread, 'Bushcraft'.

And there's the issue. You're viewing 'preparedness' as the same as 'bushcraft'. My preparedness has nothing to do with wilderness survival. No Hunting, no bushcraft. I take food with me.

Any scenario I can come up with that would require a fixed blade knife in a 72-hour time period is about on the same likelihood as needing scuba gear.

Bushcraft skills are interesting, but they're not exactly 'practical'. Instead of mucking with friction fire, ferro rod fire, etc. Throw in a lighter. Lighters fail? Throw in two. Check them and replace them as needed. Need a fixed blade knife for hunting? Why? WHY are you hunting when you should be concentrating on getting somewhere (ideally a bug out location). Why not just carry food? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I freely grant that having bushcraft skills allows resources to be stretched, sometimes for quite a while. But then you have to wonder what the timeframe is between 'prepared' and 'insane'. I plan for 72+ hours. that '+' is maybe a few more days, stretching things.

I'm not illiterate in the ways of bushcraft, and I'm certainly no master, but there is NO 'run to the hills' option for me, or anyone really within a hundred miles of me in this state. There's only 'run to the corn field'. And if even a fraction of other people had the same 'run for the hills' plan here, then every stretch of woods would be more like an RV park on a major holiday weekend than 'rugged wilderness'.

That being said, I don't have a problem with small fixed blade knives. I thing Miraknivs are about everything I love in gear: inexpensive, reliable, and light. Every video I see of people carrying much bigger knives than that, and I keep hearing the dubious 'self defense' claim pop up. 

And FWIW, Im probably going to get a Mora for a friend of mine for HIS BOB.

For me, I remain unconvinced that I need more than a lockblade 111mm SAK.

Damn good answer Lynn  "Bushcraft" would likely be of similar usefullness for me too, even if I started off on a hike when the problem occurred. Firelighting skills for me would be probably be more likely because I need to dry out after a flood/stream/river/deluge incident rather than cooking something I'd just hunted with primative means. Likewise the primary use for a fixed blade knife would be for food prep. I hate using a folder as they're so bloody difficult to clean out afterwards, particularly in the middle of nowhere. It's nice to know a little more, but I am highly unlikely to find myself in a situation where fashioning a sling from natural materials and lighting fire by friction is my key to survival ... hence I'm not practiced at either 

[Lynn LeFey]

By the way, I don't want anyone to think I'm knocking bushcraft in any way. I think it's great. It's just not always of practical use, particularly depending on the location.

Same with hunting. That's pretty location dependent. By that I mean that about half the U.S. population lives in urban areas. You either have to know someone with property to hunt on, or try to go to government owned land, where who knows what yahoo is also out there potentially shooting at anything that moves.

Hey... why did I get this brown baseball cap with floppy stuffed antlers on it for Christmas?

And, I'll be dead serious. I don't think eating a fish caught in the Mississippi River is going to greatly increase my lifespan.

For those that DO live in areas where hunting can be done... more power to them.

Let me change the subject: Crank flashlights.
With the invention of Lithium batteries that will stay good for 10 years, I don't see the benefit of a crank flashlight in a emergency kit. They're WAY more bulky than a (for instance) 1xAA flashlight. A lot of them also have a claim that you can charge a cell phone with them, but I have never heard of a single person being able to charge an iPhone via crank power ANYTHING. I think I could carry 8 spare batteries for the same weight of a crank flashlight. So...

[ducttapetech]

@ Lynn, while some skills from Bushcraft are helpful in being prepared, but make no mistake, I do not view them as one and the same. I do bushcraft for fun. I can start fire from flint and steel, make cord from inner tree bark, but again, I do it for fun. Being prepared is for just in case. And my kits are vastly different. Why make cord when I can use paracord or twine. I can use my ferro rod or a lighter to make a fire. Also, my post ealier was about the point of fixed blades. But I do hunt. Part of it is for fun. The other part does help feed my family. Deer is cheap, healthy and taste good. However, my 3 day pack, has food in it. I know from experience, hunting is not easy as walk in the woods, see deer, shoot deer, drag deer home.