Bail for Farmer mod question

[magentus]

I'm building a Farmer with an existing beat up Farmer I had and donated pins and a scale.

I'd like to add a bail and have been playing around with some 2.5mm wire I took from a paint tin handle.

I've been experimenting with beating it flat and drilling a hole through it for the pin to fit, but I'm not convinced of it's strength.

Do any of our more experienced modders have any views on whether what I'm trying to do is possible?

Should I be looking for something different to use as a bail?

I have basic tools, ie cordless drill, hammer, metal files etc so nuttin fancy.

Cheers all 

[Sparky415]

Just thinking out aloud, Are you using a blowlamp? maybe the steel needs some heat as it will work harden and get brittle as you hammer it?

[Syph007]

The style you are trying to make, that I have taken off older SAKs is pretty soft metal, not sure what it is but it had pretty thick ends where the holes were. I would think your method would work as long as it had enough meat.  Id probably use nickel silver (german silver) rod if I was to try it.

The bails from a hollow pin model are hardened steel and very strong. 

[magentus]

Thanks both of you.

I don't have a blow lamp but I do have a butane lighter. Will this suffice?

I've got quite a lot of the wire and so I can experiment a bit, it's good fun and I'm (hopefully) learning something in the process.

[Sparky415]

I don't think a butane lighter would get it hot enough? give it a go as the wire is thin it might work 
my idea was get it red then belt it with a hammer 

Another thought, instead of drilling the flat area and removing material how about using a center punch then a small nail to make the hole, might make the area stronger

You will need three hands to do that   

Good luck 

[magentus]

I don't think a butane lighter would get it hot enough? give it a go as the wire is thin it might work 
my idea was get it red then belt it with a hammer 

Another thought, instead of drilling the flat area and removing material how about using a center punch then a small nail to make the hole, might make the area stronger

You will need three hands to do that   

Good luck 

Great idea about  the centre punch and nail. I guess you get the hole without removing any material and this makes it stronger?

I'll put up pics as I go along.

[Sparky415]

I don't think a butane lighter would get it hot enough? give it a go as the wire is thin it might work 
my idea was get it red then belt it with a hammer 

Another thought, instead of drilling the flat area and removing material how about using a center punch then a small nail to make the hole, might make the area stronger

You will need three hands to do that   

Good luck 

Great idea about  the centre punch and nail. I guess you get the hole without removing any material and this makes it stronger?
I'll put up pics as I go along.

Hopefully

Again I would try to get the metal red hot then using the punch
 (cable clips have hardened/masonary nails    )

[magentus]

Sparky - Thank you, you're a gent. 

I'll let you know how I go.

[hiraethus]

I think that a hollow rivet to retain the bail like the Wenger Soldier might be easier and stronger than a riveted bail.  Finding the right brass tube could be tricky though.

[magentus]

I think that a hollow rivet to retain the bail like the Wenger Soldier might be easier and stronger than a riveted bail.  Finding the right brass tube could be tricky though.

NNNOooooooooooooooooo. 

It would be my dream SAK, but it would also mean re-drilling the holes and I don't have the tools for that.

[PTRSAK]

If you're very careful and the wire is hard and springy, you can drill the head of the rivets and use a hollow rivet style bail in the holes. They don't have to be very deep, but you would be better with 2mm piano wire. You should be able to get that from a hobby shop. 2,5mm hole might be too big in the 3mm pin. You don't want to drill the head off.

[magentus]

Thanks PTRSAK, I am mulling at the moment with this problem of a bail.

I've been experimenting with the 'paint pot' wire I mentioned earlier but I'm not convinced it's going to have the strength required.

I don't want to compromise the strength of the pins if I drill into them for your method.

I'm at an impasse.

Half of me (the cool and heroic half with no idea of financial restraint) wants to throw caution to the wind and just do it, and the more sensible, cardigan and underwear wearing half of me is aware that this is a Farmer and it shouldn't go to waste as I may never get another one, and it's going to be enough of a challenge to get the peening right

Also Hiraethus very kindly donated a scale and the pins so I also don't want to squander his good will.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

[magentus]

I'm raising this thread again as I'm nearly at the point where I can finish my Farmer mod.

What I'm looking for is a small length of hollow rivet and possibly a bail if anyone has one spare.

I have a couple of sets of unused nylon 84mm scales in red in exchange, or an alox blade, an opener layer (CO modded as a thin SD) a couple of scales (shield scale is a little marked but nothing terrible) and springs.

I can put up pics if anyone is interested in a trade.

[neillcurrie]

You can get hollow brass tubing, in a variety of sizes, via K&S at ebay. Here's an example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-K-S-Brass-Tube-3-32-1-8-5-32-Bendable-3-5075-NIB-/331153039793?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1a4261b1

[magentus]

You can get hollow brass tubing, in a variety of sizes, via K&S at ebay. Here's an example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-K-S-Brass-Tube-3-32-1-8-5-32-Bendable-3-5075-NIB-/331153039793?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1a4261b1

Cheers neillcurrie, but I only need about an inch. There's a great UK site I can get some from, but postage is high. I'm really only after a very amount.

[tattoosteve99]

Don't use hollow brass it's too soft. You need stainless or Ti

[magentus]

Cheers Steve, thinking about it, the SI rivet isn't brass is it? Do they use stainless?

[tattoosteve99]

Yes it is stainless and very hard to drill out to.

[Syph007]

Its also bigger diameter than stock 3mm rivots at 3.5mm.  I found that out when I tried to reuse the tools from that end and the pivot holes were huge. 

[magentus]

I sat down last night after work to tackle the hollow bail on my Farmer mod.

My first attempt cracked badly  I went much slower in the second attempt, but even so, a small (tiny) crack has appeared on the face of the rivet where I am peening it over.

My question is, how much will a tiny crack affect the integrity of the rivet?

If needs be I will post a pic

[hiraethus]

Is that the drilled tube I sent you, or some solid bar?  Brass work hardens as you peen it and becomes more brittle but if it's the solid bar I imagine it would be ok.  The tube, as there's less metal there to start with, might not be as good.  I really should have tried this out beforehand.

[magentus]

It's the hollow brass. Would a dab of solder in the gap strengthen it or am I talking crazy?

[hiraethus]

I don't think it will do any harm and it might stop the crack from spreading.

[magentus]

I don't think it will do any harm and it might stop the crack from spreading.

Cheers H - I will get my daughter on to it - she's the one with the soldering skillz (as I believe the young call it)

 

[magentus]

Finished article. I will make a bail for it sometime soon;

[tallowwaters]

Maybe a little late, but wouldn't a shackle work?  Just have to find a more clever attachment than a clevis.