Identification and dating of old Victoria/Victorinox knives - Value?!

[lowtech]

I have offered two old VICs in the sale section.
I have not had any reaction, so I think I have either described them wrong or my pricing is way off.

If the more knowledgeable members would help out with some facts, I´d be most grateful.

Both knives are 84 mm 2 layer knives.

I have not oiled/cleaned the knives except for using a toothpick and a stiff bristled brush, as I have read that the older scales may react with oils/cleaning agents and I did not want to cause any further damage. All sprins seem good, no 93 mm Alox snap, but no limp tools either.

First knife:

Red Cellidor scales, no T&T. Insted of teh VIC shield, there is an advertising Logo "SIA" inlaid on the front scale
Tools:
Big blade, VICTORINOX / SWITZERLAND / STAINLESS / ROSTFREI tang, other side reads VICTORIA w. Crossbow / OFFICER / SUISSE
Blade has been missharbened and is scratched, but I guess it can be saved w/o loosing too much substance.
small, clip-point blade. scratched from missharpening

Can opener (w. small screwdriver), Caplifter/Screwdriver w. wire bending notch, no stamps, no half stop

Backside tools:
Big awl, undamaged and fluted, 5 turn corkscrew

No lanyard attachment point.

liners are not corroded or bent,slight marks on top of min blade and back layer liners. back scale has "melted" area on the corkscrew side about 3x12 mm.

Pics:















damaged scale:




I was thinking 50,- € including shipment - Is that way off?! What do you think is a knife like this worth?


The second knife is even older.
Red scales with visible pins, Inlaid Advertising Logo on the front scale. 2 cutouts (for the Cap lifter and Awl)

Tools:
Big blade, scratches from use, but quite good for that age.
VICTORIA / SWITZERLAND / STAINLESS tang stamp, empty on back
Small, clip point blade
No tang stamp, some scrtches, dull, but undamaged edge

Cap Lifter with screwdriver, no half stop, no notch and no stamps
Can opener - "Wenger" Claw style. Funnily, they are oriented the other way round than on modern Vics?!

Backside tools:
big Awl, undamaged and fluted, 5 turn corkscrew.

Liners are not bent, from the colour I´d say they are nickel silver just like the SIA Logo and pins.
Again, no lanyard attachment point, no T&T.
rear scale is damaged at the bottom, see pic.

















I was thinking 75,- € including shipment? Again,was I off that much? Or are those Cellidors not as collectible as vintage ALOX knives or other sizes?!
I am looking forward to some Info on those knives, SAKwiki was no help here.

[Corwyn]

Sure as smurf not an expert, but I can tell you these seem to me Tourists (well 248 k).
First one is 1951 - 1961
Second one is 1946 - 1951

Definately not as rare or collectible as older ones (pre WW2) or Aloxes. I just got a couple of these, for quite a bit less, but they were a gift and in worse condition so...

Some sak guru can go ahead and correct me. For the pricing, "Completed" on eBay for Tourist/248k/Officer knife from that period should give a proper value.

[lowtech]

  Thanks, Pal!
I´ll browse the bay, I was unsure what search words to look for.

[jazzbass]

I'd call them both Tourists, but the period correct name for both would be Model 234k (not 248k - that's a Gourmet). First one was made c. 1959-1960 and the second one between c. 1949-1952.

As for values? In my opinion yours are a little high. Old Tourists are relatively common, so for the prices you want I'd expect almost flawless versions. The tool/blade/scale damage on these does reduce their value.

Now, that doesn't mean you wouldn't get lucky in an auction. Sometimes new collectors get excited about large awl knives and trip over themselves bidding them up despite the flaws.

[lowtech]

Thank you very much for the information - If you were to buy thoise, what would your price be? 2/3rds of mine? Around half?
I have no idea and would like to offer them at a fair price here on MTO before auctioning them off. I think I maybe made the "new collector" mistake you mentioned  Mainly because I was led to believe I was buying 91 mm knives. "Around 9 cm long".