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Firefly / Moonlight mode

firiki · 92 · 9706

gr Offline firiki

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #60 on: March 31, 2015, 11:24:11 PM
Believe me, I've seen them. I just didn't have something to post as I'm practically clueless. I only know what I like and what I don't and why. :think:

(A simple ''thank you'' would be nice, silly me!)
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us Offline NutSAK

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #61 on: April 01, 2015, 08:58:03 PM

Some will also give the maximum theoretical lumens for a certain current to the led, that is usually higher than the actual current their torch utilises.

And that is only part of it.  They also don't correct for the inefficiencies of they optics they are using, be it a reflector with lens, TIR, etc.
- Terry


gr Offline firiki

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #62 on: April 01, 2015, 10:57:46 PM
Caveat emptor :)
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us Offline Lynn LeFey

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #63 on: May 07, 2015, 09:50:16 PM
I find moonlight mode pretty useful. In fact, i just mentioned this in another thread. The Thrunight (sp?) light Garith listed earlier is nearly perfect light levels for my needs: .4/12/120.

Almost all of the time i need a light, it's for something like getting a key in my car's door lock at night, or getting my housekeys in the lock. or maybe finding that THING you dropped under or in the sofa. I've also used the moonlight mode to find something I dropped in the back seat of a car at night, when blasting more lumens would be bad for the driver.

It's enough light to read by, too. As was pointed out with the menu, but I can imagine a lot of other times you might want to read something at night.

And, yes, it mostly keeps your dark vision intact. I find the Preon A0 I have is pretty true to full moonlight at a range of 3 to 5 feet. I've used it to walk on a familiar trail at night.

Again, the aforementioned midnight bathroom trek is a great use of this light. It is (for me, in a familiar location) the perfect amount of light to shuffle around a dark house.

The A0 is listed as 120 hours runtime on moonlight mode. I've never tested that, but think it's pretty likely. I got it partially for this very fact.


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #64 on: May 07, 2015, 10:56:35 PM
Personally, I don't consider anything less than 3 lumens as good enough for negotiating your way round a house, or anything less than 10 lumens for negotiating an outside path. That may be different for everyone depending on eyesight and night vision.

The firefly modes of less than one lumen still serve a fantastic purpose though.... they help you find the torch in the middle of the night. This function has been of use several times in the past, particularly when visiting friends. You wake up inthe night, can't quite remember the layout of the room, certainly daren't risk negotiating your way to the bathroom in the dark, and have no idea where the lightswitches are. You see the little tell tale glow of your light on firefly mode and all is wellin the world. As soon as you see that glow, you know you're not going towalk into the wardrobe, trip over that sodding cat, go head first down the stairs, or pick the wrong room and pee on your mates head.

Downside is you won't remember you put in on firefly mode when youwake inthe morning, and so you might need a new battery sooner than you thought
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 10:58:09 PM by 50ft-trad »


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us Offline David Quevedo

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #65 on: September 09, 2015, 05:39:27 PM

Lastly I have 2 Thrunite T10s with a .09 lumen low  :think:  Again the run times are awesome for these firefly modes. 

There are other times when a discreet amount of light is needed and these ultra low lumens come to play.  I like the option of these ultra low lumen lights and the options that come into play for using them.  They're generally on lights with a middle and high mode as well so if I need more output I have it.     

+1 on the Thrunite T10 lights.


The newer T10 (combination twisty/clicky mode switching) even comes with a diffuser wand, and makes a very nice night light, in moonlight mode. My original T10 is the cooler white twisty version, while the newer 2014 Edition is in neutral - very nice tint.

While I don't believe it's necessary for every on-person light to have this feature, I do like to have at least one light that has it, on-person.  The six lights, pictured above, are my regular on-person EDCS, while not at work. While at work, most of them are in a bag. The HC50 headlamp is always in a pouch, in my bag, and has been extremely useful for hands-free work.  It has five output settings, and dual Red LEDs, especially useful for up close work, where white light is overkill.

I never would have believed sub lumen output had any practical use, whatsoever, until I actually tried it out. It definitely has its place.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 05:44:32 PM by David Quevedo »


us Offline David Quevedo

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #66 on: September 09, 2015, 05:51:44 PM
Personally, I don't consider anything less than 3 lumens as good enough for negotiating your way round a house, or anything less than 10 lumens for negotiating an outside path. That may be different for everyone depending on eyesight and night vision.

The firefly modes of less than one lumen still serve a fantastic purpose though.... they help you find the torch in the middle of the night. This function has been of use several times in the past, particularly when visiting friends. You wake up inthe night, can't quite remember the layout of the room, certainly daren't risk negotiating your way to the bathroom in the dark, and have no idea where the lightswitches are. You see the little tell tale glow of your light on firefly mode and all is wellin the world. As soon as you see that glow, you know you're not going towalk into the wardrobe, trip over that sodding cat, go head first down the stairs, or pick the wrong room and pee on your mates head.

Downside is you won't remember you put in on firefly mode when youwake inthe morning, and so you might need a new battery sooner than you thought

I really prefer leaving everything I EDCd that day, in whatever clothes I was wearing, then transferring it over to my new clothes,  the next day.  This insures that Il'll have all of basic items immediately available, in the event that I have to get up and leave in the middle of the night (emergency, or whatever), without having to fumble around, trying to locate my EDC items, other than my smart phone, which can easily pulled from the charging cable, and holstered.

The daily routine is to top off all batteries, in any devices I used that day, as soon as I get home. This means smart phone, tablet, external lithium ion batteries, and flashlights. When I leave the house, the next morning, everything is fully charged, and I feel prepared. I use 14500 batteries in my T10 lights. Because of the increased output, I have to be careful not to run the lights in the highest model for long periods, to avoid internal damage from the heat. But I generally use these lights for a few moments or minutes at a time; so no worries, there.

I don't EDC lights that use only alkaline (or other primary/disposable) batteries. Alkalines just can't keep up with lithium ion batteries, performance-wise, and will eventually leak, given enough time - aside from voltage sag issues, with high performance lights. There's a reason they're so cheap lol.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 07:53:27 PM by David Quevedo »


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #67 on: September 09, 2015, 05:51:54 PM
I also like the diffuser that came with the T10's.  I have the neutral and being my first I wasn't thrilled initially with the tint.  I got the CW because of my initial uncertainty with the neutral.  I however love this tint and love having it as an option for light.  I love the warm glow as my eyes are sensitive to the brightness of the CW on high indoors.

I will definitely be getting another neutral as a result of this light.  I also want to try a nichia led at some point.   

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us Offline David Quevedo

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #68 on: September 09, 2015, 05:59:10 PM
I also like the diffuser that came with the T10's.  I have the neutral and being my first I wasn't thrilled initially with the tint.  I got the CW because of my initial uncertainty with the neutral.  I however love this tint and love having it as an option for light.  I love the warm glow as my eyes are sensitive to the brightness of the CW on high indoors.

I will definitely be getting another neutral as a result of this light.  I also want to try a nichia led at some point.

You owe it to yourself to own at least one nice Nichia 219 light. Beautiful neutral, pleasant tint.  It's like having a small version of the sun in the palm of your  hands. You'll love it!


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #69 on: September 09, 2015, 07:41:36 PM
Personally, I don't consider anything less than 3 lumens as good enough for negotiating your way round a house, or anything less than 10 lumens for negotiating an outside path. That may be different for everyone depending on eyesight and night vision.

The firefly modes of less than one lumen still serve a fantastic purpose though.... they help you find the torch in the middle of the night. This function has been of use several times in the past, particularly when visiting friends. You wake up inthe night, can't quite remember the layout of the room, certainly daren't risk negotiating your way to the bathroom in the dark, and have no idea where the lightswitches are. You see the little tell tale glow of your light on firefly mode and all is wellin the world. As soon as you see that glow, you know you're not going towalk into the wardrobe, trip over that sodding cat, go head first down the stairs, or pick the wrong room and pee on your mates head.

Downside is you won't remember you put in on firefly mode when youwake inthe morning, and so you might need a new battery sooner than you thought

I really prefer leaving everything I EDCd that day, in whatever clothes I was wearing, then transferring it over to my new clothes,  the next day.  This insures that Il'll have all of basic items immediately available, in the event that I have to get up and leave in the middle of the night (emergency, or whatever), without having to fumble around, trying to locate my EDC items, other than my smart phone, which can easily pulled from the charging cable, and holstered.

The daily routine is to top off all batteries, in any devices I used that day, as soon as I get home. This means smart phone, tablet, external lithium ion batteries, and flashlights. When I leave the house, the next morning, everything is fully charged, and I feel prepared. I use 14500 batteries in my T10 lights. Because of the increased output, I have to be careful not to run the lights in the highest model for long periods, to avoid internal damage from the heat. But I generally use these lights for a few moments or minutes at a time; so no worries, there.

The reason I tend to have duplications of things on me or dotted around somewhere handy, is that I'm not as organised as you seem to be, and don't have a routined enough existence or role in life to have a Maintenance schedule. I just expect things to work right up to the point that they don't, and then I'll grab something else and fix the issue when time/funds permit. All my lights with the exception of the Nitecore tube are run on single use batteries.

I've just finished work, so I still have my Quark AA2 Tactical in my rule pocket. It's the largest light I own, and I know the batteries need changing soon. In my right front pocket are my house keys, which has a mini pry bar (never used it, a Gerber Dime, and a Preon Revo. Left front pocket has my wallet, and I know there's a fauxton (battery condition unknown) chucked in there with a Vic Classic, fresnel lens and a few other goodies. On top of that is my car keys with Vic Manager, Res-Q-Me, and Nitecore Tube. Works mobile (cell phone) in shirt pocket, personal mobile was in jacket pocket (now typing this on it  ;)), cargo pocket has a Leatherman Sideclip, and also in right front pocket was my Mega84 SAK mod (now on kitchen table)....

Sometimes when not working, certain kits/premade combos will have a light as part of the set up, or I'll chuck my V10R or T10 or T20 in my pocket too, but if I have phone, keys, or wallet handy, they have a back up in case my primary is absent, broken, or just flat


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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #70 on: September 10, 2015, 09:35:46 AM
I see you're a fan of the older T10; a man of good taste I'd say. 8)  I think I was saying in this thread that I've had some use for a moonlight mode and that I liked it on the old T10.  I was also saying that I have a NW Ti3 with a moonlight mode as well.  The BIG issue for me with the Ti3 is that it doesn't have a mode memory so I'm constantly having to flick past the moonlight mode to get to some full lumens.  If only it had a true mode memory like it's older brother I think I'd carry it a lot more. :-\
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spam Offline comis

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #71 on: September 10, 2015, 10:16:10 AM
Another moonlight mode fan here!

I think nowadays, we rarely have problem of lumen deficit(maybe hardcore lumen chaser would disagree), but I think we still have some bottle neck on runtime.  My flashlight got used the most when I was out in an outdoor setting, and one thing that I always keep an eye out for is the runtime(at each different level) and durability of the light.  Have a moonlight mode gives me some comfort that, if I were stuck in an emergency situation without extra battery, I could at least have some light source available for a longer while.


I see you're a fan of the older T10; a man of good taste I'd say. 8)  I think I was saying in this thread that I've had some use for a moonlight mode and that I liked it on the old T10.  I was also saying that I have a NW Ti3 with a moonlight mode as well.  The BIG issue for me with the Ti3 is that it doesn't have a mode memory so I'm constantly having to flick past the moonlight mode to get to some full lumens.  If only it had a true mode memory like it's older brother I think I'd carry it a lot more. :-\

I guess the constant debate of whether "low > high" vs "high > low" vs "memory vs no-memory" will always be there, but one thing good about low > high with no memory is it probably will preserve our nigh vision better.  :D


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #72 on: September 10, 2015, 04:32:44 PM
The low-med-high  high-med-low  med-low-high debate is easily solved with multiple light carry.

This is yet another good reason carry multiple lights.  I'm all for having and carrying different tints, throwers, flood, sub lumen, ultra high, etc.   
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00 Offline rebel

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #73 on: September 10, 2015, 04:44:25 PM
I sold my i3s with its 0.5 lumen and regret it now :D

What? That's one of the best lights ever made! How could you do it?  :-\

Although I must say, the UI is really not very good. M>H>L is a good way to get blinded at night. I hope they fix that one day.

Anyway they're like 22 bucks on eBay. Buy a couple more!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 04:54:45 PM by rebel »
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00 Offline rebel

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #74 on: September 10, 2015, 04:52:16 PM
It depends a lot on where you live and travel. In the city you almost always have enough ambient light to walk around at night outside or indoors with a window open. In the country with no light at all, when the moon isn't out even a tiny amount of light is extremely useful.

I love the low modes and use them a lot. I think David said not every light has to have low modes, but I think you're missing a potentionally very useful feature if you have no lights with low modes.

Red lights are supposed to help preserve night vision but they're also very dim and often don't illuminate well. Sublumen modes are good enough to read a book or map at night (especially in a floody) without screwing up your night vision while still using whitish light.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 04:53:19 PM by rebel »
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us Offline David Quevedo

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #75 on: September 10, 2015, 05:38:07 PM
The low-med-high  high-med-low  med-low-high debate is easily solved with multiple light carry.

This is yet another good reason carry multiple lights.  I'm all for having and carrying different tints, throwers, flood, sub lumen, ultra high, etc.   

Amen to that, brother.


gr Offline firiki

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #76 on: September 11, 2015, 12:21:43 AM
Wow! :facepalm:

I missed this thread, somehow. Apologies :salute:

And there's plenty to discuss, where to begin from? :think: Multiple lights? Environmental issues? Please stop talking about Thrunite T10, people? What light output sequence is better/more useful? How useful, purposeful, can a moonlight mode be? Combined with orange peel reflector?  :ahhh

My thoughts on all these briefly?

- Yes, carrying more than one light seems reasonable, in case one of them fails (I have an instictive distrust of electronics. Sad, I know). Better if they use the same type of battery cells? Possibly, but not necessarily. One AAA and one AA light, preferably along with a couple of spare cells and a spare AA light in my bag, is good enough for my EDC these days. It feels like overkill but it really isn't, considering I might have to lend a light or lose one or have one break down while I actually need to use one.

- Environmental issues. Big, thorny issue, this one. I am ecologically conscious and try to be as eco-friendly as I can. I still need to get some rechargeable cells but I use very little primaries anyway. Realism and idealism conflict within me on this issue. I dream of a different world and I'll leave it at that.

- Please, stop talking about Thrunite T10(S), people? Please?

- Memory mode (works better if one has few, dedicated lights) with no battery drain and Mid-Lo-Hi > Lo-Mid-Hi > Hi-Mid-Lo for me, though it depends on the light's intended use. 

- Something that can compare to full moon shine on a clear night, at the tip of my hands, that I like :tu:

- It can be very useful, to avoid straining one's eyes and keeping it discreet (and maybe romantic, even). I like full moon shine anyway.

- Orange peel reflector = good flood. For short to medium distance, that's what you want mostly. If the Fenix LD09 I carry on my person had an orange peel reflector, I'd be a very happy camper.


@David Q., welcome to the forums.




:think: I'm sure I've missed some points.

Edit: Ah, yes, there goes one: how many lumens is a useful Low? Must take candelas (intensity) into consideration.


 :ahhh

« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 12:24:17 AM by firiki »
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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #77 on: September 11, 2015, 08:53:08 AM
Great post mate. :tu:
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gr Offline firiki

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #78 on: September 17, 2015, 01:26:05 AM
^^^ Thank you. I realised I merged points from two different threads in one post, though.

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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #79 on: September 17, 2015, 01:35:27 AM
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spam Offline comis

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #80 on: September 17, 2015, 02:49:30 AM
Wow! :facepalm:

- Orange peel reflector = good flood. For short to medium distance, that's what you want mostly. If the Fenix LD09 I carry on my person had an orange peel reflector, I'd be a very happy camper.



Depending how heavily peeled is the Orange Peel reflector, I usually hate it for stealing the throw.   The decisions for the balance between spot and flood + how big is the hotspot are strongly tied to the intended use of the light and the shape of the reflector.  Some flashlight makers, instead of doing homework on studying those decisions, just op the reflector and call it ideal for close range use/smooth transition, or even just it to hide imperfection of light rings/halo beam pattern.

For a keychain light or AA light with firefly mode, due to its limited size of the reflector and low output, will inherently has a shorter throw, and an orange peeled will further reduce the throw even more.  Another example is a 2x123 light with a slightly large head, mostly intended to be a thrower, an OP reflector will just steal the glory.


gr Offline firiki

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #81 on: September 17, 2015, 11:26:41 PM
Wow! :facepalm:

- Orange peel reflector = good flood. For short to medium distance, that's what you want mostly. If the Fenix LD09 I carry on my person had an orange peel reflector, I'd be a very happy camper.



Depending how heavily peeled is the Orange Peel reflector, I usually hate it for stealing the throw.   The decisions for the balance between spot and flood + how big is the hotspot are strongly tied to the intended use of the light and the shape of the reflector.  Some flashlight makers, instead of doing homework on studying those decisions, just op the reflector and call it ideal for close range use/smooth transition, or even just it to hide imperfection of light rings/halo beam pattern.

For a keychain light or AA light with firefly mode, due to its limited size of the reflector and low output, will inherently has a shorter throw, and an orange peeled will further reduce the throw even more.  Another example is a 2x123 light with a slightly large head, mostly intended to be a thrower, an OP reflector will just steal the glory.


Those are good points and smooth lenses are considered superior to OP ones, so I read at least.

About the quote in bold, I really like Fenix LD22 for a true all-rounder. Good proportions of flood on a throwy light. :tu: In my limited experience, I found that smooth reflectors need much more light to produce a floody-ish beam but it often results in a light too bright for me. I might be wrong.

I've had good luck with a couple of cheap lights with OP though, I don't mind the yellow-greenish tint much because of the smooth transition (hotspot not clearly defined) and the hazy, floody light they provide.

Good to see you, Comis :cheers:
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 12:03:35 AM by firiki »
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us Offline SAKnight

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #82 on: September 18, 2015, 12:46:21 AM
The only fancy light I've got is a zebralight sc52. Love love love the moonlight mode. And I can't imagine a superior UI, as far ability to access different levels instantly every time. It has a battery gauge, so I don't worry about it being dead, and the orange peel smooths out the beam without stealing enough throw to ever make a difference for my use.

I love the moonlight mode, I use it more than any other, though if it's not totally dark I use the alternate, slightly brighter low mode.

If I don't have my zebra on hand, I have 3 other lights I use. My $5 old school looking rayovac led (love this light), a little energizer 4xaa ~40lm that casts a circle, not unlike led lenser, which I like the option of. The last is an old rayovac 2xaa with no reflector, I'll take a pic. It's a dim little incan, but I love it and it lives next to my bed. These are all 1 mode flashlights, which I find very useful, as I don't have to think about how much light I want, I just use it.

Kinda rambling sorry ::)


us Offline SAKnight

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #83 on: September 18, 2015, 01:23:26 AM
My moonlight-only flashlight  :)

Oh how leds have spoiled me. And I love incan.

The old 'hot wires' are EMP-proof, if that matters  :D
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gr Offline firiki

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #84 on: September 19, 2015, 02:22:01 AM
LEDs are sensitive to heat and we get loads of that in the summer so I keep a 2AA incan Maglite without battery cells in the car ;)

My moonlight-only flashlight  :)

Looks good :tu: How's the runtime on that? I tend to get obsessed with runtimes  ::)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 02:26:50 AM by firiki »
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us Offline SAKnight

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #85 on: September 19, 2015, 03:08:02 AM
LEDs are sensitive to heat and we get loads of that in the summer so I keep a 2AA incan Maglite without battery cells in the car ;)

My moonlight-only flashlight  :)

Looks good :tu: How's the runtime on that? I tend to get obsessed with runtimes  ::)

Funny enogh, I don't have a clue. It gets used over such a long span of time in short bursts, I've never gauged it. Similar to a mini mag as I'd say, seems similar brightness, just sans focus


au Offline gregozedobe

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #86 on: September 19, 2015, 04:28:36 AM
LEDs are sensitive to heat and we get loads of that in the summer so I keep a 2AA incan Maglite without battery cells in the car

This is a new one to me.  Most higher powered LEDs get MUCH hotter from their own internal heat when powered up than is possible in a car (even one parked in hot sun with all the windows wound up).  That is why good light makers put a lot of effort into conducting heat from the LED to the body of the light to dissipate the excess heat, and why aluminium (or copper) is a better material than titanium for high powered LED lights.

I would have thought that the batteries would be more susceptible to heat damage than the LEDs in a light (particularly cheap "alkaleaks"  (alkaline) batteries.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 04:29:44 AM by gregozedobe »
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us Offline HarleyXJGuy

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #87 on: September 19, 2015, 05:13:45 AM
I have a Olight i3 and while it is a twisty so far it has been 100 percent reliable including a deployment to Afghanistan.

Don't use its low mode to much here at home but used it a ton while overseas. Not so much to keep night vision but to present less of a target on a blacked out base at night. Nothing worse then being shot on the way to the latrine.



gr Offline firiki

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #88 on: September 24, 2015, 11:59:01 PM
I have a Olight i3 and while it is a twisty so far it has been 100 percent reliable including a deployment to Afghanistan.

Don't use its low mode to much here at home but used it a ton while overseas. Not so much to keep night vision but to present less of a target on a blacked out base at night. Nothing worse then being shot on the way to the latrine.

Fair point  :salute:

But then, immurement?
Omnia vincit amor. Vae victis.


gr Offline firiki

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Re: Firefly / Moonlight mode
Reply #89 on: September 25, 2015, 12:09:00 AM
LEDs are sensitive to heat and we get loads of that in the summer so I keep a 2AA incan Maglite without battery cells in the car

This is a new one to me.  Most higher powered LEDs get MUCH hotter from their own internal heat when powered up than is possible in a car (even one parked in hot sun with all the windows wound up).  That is why good light makers put a lot of effort into conducting heat from the LED to the body of the light to dissipate the excess heat, and why aluminium (or copper) is a better material than titanium for high powered LED lights.

I would have thought that the batteries would be more susceptible to heat damage than the LEDs in a light (particularly cheap "alkaleaks"  (alkaline) batteries.

True, LEDs exude plenty of heat so heat sinks and aluminium bodies are needed for good flashlights. I can't find the webpage I was reading this in info on; it would seem that the phosphorus used to create LEDs is affected by external temperatures on the long run, though that's probably the case for home illumination LEDs with little heat sink.

Anyhow, I am sure that leaving a (good) LED flashlight in the driver's door pocket all the time, winter to summer and again, isn't ideal. High tempratures falling, humidity condensation, electric and electronic components suffering from all this :dwts:
Omnia vincit amor. Vae victis.


 

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