Bushings?

lichan · **on:** March 16, 2015, 10:05:40 PM

Does anyone have any thoughts on a source for the bushings used on the outside of the knives, especially the 58mm Victorinoxes and 65mm Wengers, other than cannibalizing other knives? I know in the alox models, screws and pillars can be used, but as someone who wants to do some modding of especially the smaller ones, it is daunting to know that many bushings will meet their ends before a clean dis-assembly technique is developed. On the small knives, I think the bushings are 3mm OD with an inner hole of 1.5mm which would give a .75mm wall thickness. I've found 3mm brass tubing with 2.1mm hole and .45mm wall thickness but that's not really close.

zoidberg · **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2015, 10:50:29 PM

I could do with a whole lot of both sizes for 91mm, just saying. And liners too. Can cover the postage costs.

jrp316 · **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2015, 01:23:37 PM

The only readily available source for those bushings is other knives. I've been modding 58mm for quite a while now and did the same search without success. If Victorinox is sourcing them from an outside supplier, they're keeping their mouths shut about it. I would dare say they make them in house.

Losing a few to disassembly is part and parcel with any size knife. I'm at the point where I can drill off a rivet head and keep the bushing intact 90% of the time. When I started, I might've been around 25%. Nowadays, for the sake of time and convenience, I take a pair of side cutters and clip one side's bushings in half, then drive the pin out and save the other side's bushings. Donor knives are cheap and plentiful. Do a few alox conversions/mods and you'll have more bushings than you'll ever need.

A tip for drilling them out: use a 1/16" bit (or center drill bit, if you can find one in that size). Get a good punch mark on the rivet head as close to center as possible for the bit to bite into. You don't have to drill the head near as much as you would think. Drill the head just enough to weaken it, then you can take a 1/16" punch and drive the pin out.

zoidberg · **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2015, 01:43:34 PM

Quote from: jrp316 on March 17, 2015, 01:23:37 PM

Donor knives are cheap and plentiful.

Not in this corner of the world.

Biker_Bob · **Reply #4 on:** March 18, 2015, 11:51:33 AM

Why not get some brass rod that is slightly oversize and get a local engineering shop to turn a batch of bushings for you? It's the kind of thing that most shops would do for cash in hand in their lunch hour.
Or the really long term solution is to invest in a small lathe, then you can make as many as you want!

magentus · **Reply #5 on:** March 18, 2015, 01:03:44 PM

Quote from: zoidberg on March 17, 2015, 01:43:34 PM

Quote from: jrp316 on March 17, 2015, 01:23:37 PM
Donor knives are cheap and plentiful.

Not in this corner of the world.

+1

tattoosteve99 · **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2015, 03:29:12 AM

Quote from: zoidberg on March 16, 2015, 10:50:29 PM

I could do with a whole lot of both sizes for 91mm, just saying. And liners too. Can cover the postage costs.

Pm me. I can help you out there

lichan · **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2015, 06:40:21 AM

Quote from: Biker_Bob on March 18, 2015, 11:51:33 AM

Why not get some brass rod that is slightly oversize and get a local engineering shop to turn a batch of bushings for you? It's the kind of thing that most shops would do for cash in hand in their lunch hour.
Or the really long term solution is to invest in a small lathe, then you can make as many as you want!

I'm not sure what kind of metal shop would do that sort of work or if there are any in Oklahoma City where I live but it seems like it might be an expensive undertaking.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean about using a lathe but I would definitely be interested in hearing more. The only thing I had thought about was 3mm solid brass tube trimmed to the correct length (probably somewhere between 1 and 2 mm for the small knives) and try to drill a 1.5mm or 1/16 inch hole in the center, a task which would be as difficult as drilling out the pins while saving the bushings on an existing knife.

zoidberg · **Reply #8 on:** March 19, 2015, 07:43:58 AM

Quote from: tattoosteve99 on March 19, 2015, 03:29:12 AM

Quote from: zoidberg on March 16, 2015, 10:50:29 PM
I could do with a whole lot of both sizes for 91mm, just saying. And liners too. Can cover the postage costs.

Pm me. I can help you out there

wOop WoOp wooP wOOp thanks.

hiraethus · **Reply #9 on:** March 19, 2015, 04:36:29 PM

Quote from: lichan on March 19, 2015, 06:40:21 AM

Quote from: Biker_Bob on March 18, 2015, 11:51:33 AM
Why not get some brass rod that is slightly oversize and get a local engineering shop to turn a batch of bushings for you? It's the kind of thing that most shops would do for cash in hand in their lunch hour.
Or the really long term solution is to invest in a small lathe, then you can make as many as you want!

I'm not sure what kind of metal shop would do that sort of work or if there are any in Oklahoma City where I live but it seems like it might be an expensive undertaking.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean about using a lathe but I would definitely be interested in hearing more. The only thing I had thought about was 3mm solid brass tube trimmed to the correct length (probably somewhere between 1 and 2 mm for the small knives) and try to drill a 1.5mm or 1/16 inch hole in the center, a task which would be as difficult as drilling out the pins while saving the bushings on an existing knife.

Take a closer look at the bushings - they're not as simple as that. At one end, there is a barb on the outside to grip the recess on the backside of the scales, and a chamfer on the inside of the hole to allow the rivet head to grip the bushing. I don't doubt that a small machine shop would make them for you, but they won't be cheap if you only want a few.

Victorinox may buy them in or they might make them themselves, but at 6 million knives a year, each with at least 6 bushes per knife (yeah, I know the alox knives don't have bushes, but I doubt that they make a huge amount of those) they'll be spitting them out on multi spindle auto lathes at nearly 150,000 bushes a day.

Biker_Bob · **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2015, 04:51:26 PM

Quote from: hiraethus on March 19, 2015, 04:36:29 PM

Quote from: lichan on March 19, 2015, 06:40:21 AM
Quote from: Biker_Bob on March 18, 2015, 11:51:33 AM
Why not get some brass rod that is slightly oversize and get a local engineering shop to turn a batch of bushings for you? It's the kind of thing that most shops would do for cash in hand in their lunch hour.
Or the really long term solution is to invest in a small lathe, then you can make as many as you want!

I'm not sure what kind of metal shop would do that sort of work or if there are any in Oklahoma City where I live but it seems like it might be an expensive undertaking.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean about using a lathe but I would definitely be interested in hearing more. The only thing I had thought about was 3mm solid brass tube trimmed to the correct length (probably somewhere between 1 and 2 mm for the small knives) and try to drill a 1.5mm or 1/16 inch hole in the center, a task which would be as difficult as drilling out the pins while saving the bushings on an existing knife.

Take a closer look at the bushings - they're not as simple as that. At one end, there is a barb on the outside to grip the recess on the backside of the scales, and a chamfer on the inside of the hole to allow the rivet head to grip the bushing. I don't doubt that a small machine shop would make them for you, but they won't be cheap if you only want a few.

Victorinox may buy them in or they might make them themselves, but at 6 million knives a year, each with at least 6 bushes per knife (yeah, I know the alox knives don't have bushes, but I doubt that they make a huge amount of those) they'll be spitting them out on multi spindle auto lathes at nearly 150,000 bushes a day.

Fair enough, but the point is they can be made. So if the design is a little more complex than just a sleeve then it'll be a little harder to make. I think you could easily turn a pair out in under an hour on a small lathe at home.
Of course if you're not familiar with lathes then that's a different matter, but a lathe is one of the best investments you'll ever make.

hiraethus · **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2015, 05:11:12 PM

I'm lucky to have access to a good lathe with a collet chuck so making these sort of things would be easy enough for me, but I'd love a little bench top one for home use too. And a mill, and a bigger belt sander, and ...

Biker_Bob · **Reply #12 on:** March 19, 2015, 05:36:35 PM

Quote from: hiraethus on March 19, 2015, 05:11:12 PM

I'm lucky to have access to a good lathe with a collet chuck so making these sort of things would be easy enough for me, but I'd love a little bench top one for home use too. And a mill, and a bigger belt sander, and ...

Haha, it does get like that! I'm in the good position that years of messing around with crappy old bikes has seen me acquire some decent kit, not least a Southbend Heavy 10" toolroom lathe and a Cowel's milling machine which covers most of what I want to do. Then there's the drill press, bench grinder, belt sander, MIG, TIG and Arc welders - but I still want more kit!!!!

Syph007 · **Reply #13 on:** March 19, 2015, 07:54:16 PM

If you take apart enough SAKs you'll end up with spares but I have had to make a few when I modded the new delemonts as they dont use the same bushing size as Vic SAKs. I just used some brass rod and spun it to get it the right dimension to fit the scale hole, then since it had no lip to lock into the scale I had to glue it, but it did work just fine for a DIY fix.

lichan · **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2015, 08:45:44 PM

I have the scales off of a Victorinox 58mm and a Wenger 65mm and examined the bushings with a magnifying glass and ruler and I'll attach a rough drawing of a Victorinox bushing with approximate measurements. I did not do all the measurements on the Wenger bushing but it is wider in diameter by a little. I have just guessed at the inner slope on the hole to allow the peening of the pin to hold the bushing as I have only tried to release one bushing so far and am 100% on destruction of bushings (1 out of 1, which prompted this thread). But it does show all the details mentioned by the experienced modders. It is a very small and complicated structure that would not be easy (and perhaps worth) generating personally. As Syph007 mentioned in another thread, the bushings on one side of the Wengers are actually formed from the pin stock so that end of the pin could be used on a thinner knife or cut off, sanded and drilled to make a bushing (still not a walk-in-the-park to hold and drill such a small object) or just cut off to make the bushings on the other side easier to retrieve. The bushings are the best way to attach the hollow plastic scales whose advantage is their downfall: they allow for a wide range of scale tools and are easily removable but are not strong enough to pin directly through (without a bushing or a drilled out piece of rod inserted into the scale) or screwed down like you can do with alox scales. It would be great if Victorinox would embrace their true fans, the modders, and make the bushings available.