Hook without scissors?

[Don Pablo]

Hello everyone, new SAK enthusiast here, with a modding question.

I have heard that the Scissors in a Victorinox 91mm SAK share a spring with the 'Parcel Hook' (When the Hook is included).
So my question is, can you have mod a Victorinox to have a Hook without the Scissors? I have not seen that yet, for some reason. Scissors without Hook, yes. Hook without Scissors? Big no, at the moment. 

Thanks very much

[lister]

Well most everyone wants scissors and not many want the hook... 

[Don Pablo]

Well most everyone wants scissors and not many want the hook... 

Lol. But can it be done? Just curious. 

[zoidberg]

Well most everyone wants scissors and not many want the hook... 

Lol. But can it be done? Just curious. 

Yes. 

[bounding star]

Well most everyone wants scissors and not many want the hook... 

Lol. But can it be done? Just curious. 

Yes. 

[Don Pablo]

Thanks all.

[zoidberg]

Thanks all.

No problem mate. 

[Don Pablo]

Ok, I have my Hiker, and I notice the saw layer has no backtool. (Waste of potential space. )
Has anyone here ever reshaped the wood saw spring to accommodate a backtool? I think syph might have done it with a compact he added a saw layer to, but I might be wrong.
Is this even possible, or would it remove too much metal from the spring?

A Hiker with Hook would be nice. 

Thanks all.

[Syph007]

Hi what you need is a saw layer from a swiss champ, those have the backtools.  Those are 0.070" thick vs the hook at 0.100" so youd have to either grind the hook thinner, or make a pocket in one or both liners against that layer to give it some space.

The hook fits goofy compared to the other tools though, so even doing all that I'm not 100% sure it woudl close and sit low enough.  It would be close though.   

[Don Pablo]

Thanks Syph, thats exactly what I was looking for. 

About the weird fit of the hook, yes I noticed it in pictures. The pivot end is round while the other tools have a square pivot end, right?
Unfortunately, I dont see a way to get a square end on the hook, since that would envolve adding metal, not taking/grinding it away. 
Anyone got an idea?

Thanks.

[crackout]

Making a SAK without scissors but a hook? Be careful doing that, someone tried that already. This photo was taken right after his final peening hammer strike:

[Don Pablo]

Yeouch. 
Is my little project really going to bend spacetime and cause that? 

[zoidberg]

Thanks Syph, thats exactly what I was looking for. 

About the weird fit of the hook, yes I noticed it in pictures. The pivot end is round while the other tools have a square pivot end, right?
Unfortunately, I dont see a way to get a square end on the hook, since that would envolve adding metal, not taking/grinding it away. 
Anyone got an idea?

Thanks.

I think Syph is referring to the hook end sitting proud.

I could be barking up the wrong tree here but it might be easier getting the saw with a washer to fit a modified scissor spring.

[Don Pablo]

Thanks for your input zoid, I'll have to consider that.
Your way, if it is easier, needs only parts found on a Compact.


I'm looking for a comparison picture of the springs on the saw and scissor layer, ideally with the respective tools sitting nearby, anyone got one?

Edit: Found this. Is the saw spring on a champ the same as this? It seems that just getting this spring and a hook might be the easiest route?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ufobike/8332380886

[zoidberg]

Thanks for your input zoid, I'll have to consider that.
Your way, if it is easier, needs only parts found on a Compact.


I'm looking for a comparison picture of the springs on the saw and scissor layer, ideally with the respective tools sitting nearby, anyone got one?

Edit: Found this. Is the saw spring on a champ the same as this? It seems that just getting this spring and a hook might be the easiest route?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ufobike/8332380886

Yes the saw spring is the same size. I'm sure you know this already but I'll mention it anyway, in that pic the scissor spring (Q) is upside down.

[Don Pablo]

Oh thanks, I did not notice that about the scissor spring. Its obvious in hindsight though. 
It seems like the path of least effort is to use that saw spring, but then I would have to grind down the entire hook to make it fit, and I dont have the tools for that.

On top of that, the hook "fits goofy". I'm starting to wonder if this is futile. 

[zoidberg]

Oh thanks, I did not notice that about the scissor spring. Its obvious in hindsight though. 
It seems like the path of least effort is to use that saw spring, but then I would have to grind down the entire hook to make it fit, and I dont have the tools for that.

On top of that, the hook "fits goofy". I'm starting to wonder if this is futile. 

That is why you go with the scissor spring. Only have to grind a little where the end of the saw sits and pack it out with a washer.

[zoidberg]

I could be wrong though, it happens. I would listen to Syph.

[Don Pablo]

You may be wrong, but it makes sense, like syph. 
I thought that extra effort would be needed with the scissor spring? Looks like I was confused.
How do you grind just right for good snap? Practice?

[zoidberg]

You may be wrong, but it makes sense, like syph. 
I thought that extra effort would be needed with the scissor spring? Looks like I was confused.
How do you grind just right for good snap? Practice?

You would be grinding where the end of the saw sits, not the pivot end, so the snap should already be okay.

[Don Pablo]

Looking at the picture above, it seems that on the scissor spring on where the saw pivot end would go, it is a different shape than the saw spring in the same area. 

[zoidberg]

Looking at the picture above, it seems that on the scissor spring on where the saw pivot end would go, it is a different shape than the saw spring in the same area. 

The part of the spring that contacts the tool is the same. The scissors and saw share the same pivot shape. It will work. 

[Don Pablo]

That upside down pic of the scissor spring is smurfing with my head.   
When I mentally imagine it the right way up, I begin to see what you mean.

Thanks for answering my questions. 

[Syph007]

Thanks Syph, thats exactly what I was looking for. 

About the weird fit of the hook, yes I noticed it in pictures. The pivot end is round while the other tools have a square pivot end, right?
Unfortunately, I dont see a way to get a square end on the hook, since that would envolve adding metal, not taking/grinding it away. 
Anyone got an idea?

Thanks.

Actually there is enough metal to grind flats on it.  I did this when I was experimenting with making 2 blade layer 91mm SAKs, and I used a hook as the backtool for the inner blade layer.  I ground it squarish and it worked on the blade layer ok.

I like the idea of using a scissors backspring though, that would be easier.  If you need any I have about 200 here that have no use.  Anyone is welcome to as many as you want for just the cost of shipping.   

[zoidberg]

That upside down pic of the scissor spring is smurfing with my head.   
When I mentally imagine it the right way up, I begin to see what you mean.

Thanks for answering my questions. 

Truth is I am pretty new to SAK modding. I enjoy it so I try to encourage others and help if I can. Often I also learn something new while doing so.

[Don Pablo]

Hi syph
But did it have snap like factory, or O.K kind?
Also what do you think of Zoidbergs idea of replacing the saw spring with a scissor spring? Seems like it only needs very little grinding on one end of the spring so the saw rests nicely in the closed position, and no grinding seems to be needed on the saw itself or the hook.
Would it work? 

Thanks for the help zoid and syph. 

[Syph007]

Ya it doenst look like the scissors spring would need much tweaking eh?





I used to be all organized and separate all my springs, but I gave up and now there is just a big bin in my shop of them. 

[Don Pablo]

Indeed.
You seem like the kind of guy who woulds know suppliers of parts.
Whats the best place to buy rivets, springs, etc? 
I'm in Ireland.

[Syph007]

I think most hobby stores carry the brass bin stock.  2.2 mm is the hardest to find but it sounds oike jts pretty easy to find in the uk.

If you want some scissors backsprings let me know.

[Don Pablo]

Theres a few hobby stores in Dublin. I'll check them. 
Can you really spare the spring? I wouldn't want to take one off you unless you really did not need it. I'd pay the shipping off course.