alox greed: no bounds?

[buck]

I'm knew to this alox crack addiction thing and have so much to learn.  My first reaction to stumbling upon the following ebay auction was to say to myself "Is there no limit to alox greed?".

Should I learn and appreciate this for what it's starting price is and learn something or is my reaction not off base?

Of course something is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay, supply and demand, etcetera I get all that.

In other things I have ventured into with limited or even finite supply and high demand I have known of dealers who sell for top dollar plus 10 or 20% or more who knowledgeable aficionados and collectors learn to avoid or at least go in knowing what the score is for something they really want irregardless.  Perhaps there is such a class of alox dealers and if anyone wants to let me know who they are but don't feel comfortable "naming names" please PM me.

I'm not dissing the auction or seller quoted, it may be a perfectly reasonable starting price for something rarer than rare which is harder to get than the holy grail itself.  I just want to learn (and not burn).  Caveat emptor, a cliche from antiquity is in play, this buyer wants to beware.

Much obliged.

[SAK Guy]

No link?

[buck]

Doh!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Rare-Victorinox-Pioneer-2223-Elinox-Vintage-Swiss-Army-Knife-/121530319018?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4bc580aa

[kirk13]

Those are super expensive by any standard!

http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Pioneer+2223

Whether that's the going rate,or whether they're worth it is another matter completely!

[Mr. Whippy]

The Alox market is in a definite bubble.  It's amazing to watch develop.  A couple years ago, Atwoods were doing the same crazy thing.  I sold a bunch of Atwoods at that time.  I like them very much and they're beautiful but come on people!  (I still have a bunch of Atwoods, just not as many).

I'm sorely tempted to start selling off some Alox too. 

Craziness.

[SAK Guy]

Doh!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Rare-Victorinox-Pioneer-2223-Elinox-Vintage-Swiss-Army-Knife-/121530319018?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4bc580aa

Yeah that's a super rare model. I can't argue the price because that's the only one I've ever seen.

[Mr. Whippy]

Doh!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Rare-Victorinox-Pioneer-2223-Elinox-Vintage-Swiss-Army-Knife-/121530319018?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4bc580aa

Yeah that's a super rare tulip bulb. I can't argue the price because that's the only one I've ever seen.

 

[Mr. Whippy]

If I were scurrilous, I'd buy several old alox, several of the SwissBiancos with the sacking needle/marlinspike and make several of these...

[SAK Guy]

Doh!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Rare-Victorinox-Pioneer-2223-Elinox-Vintage-Swiss-Army-Knife-/121530319018?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4bc580aa

Yeah that's a super rare tulip bulb. I can't argue the price because that's the only one I've ever seen.

 

LOL, great metaphor.

[dks]

It is a weird situation.
With regular models, like the Farmer or Cadet  the e.g. green one does exactly the same job as the silver one, whilst the silver one will actually stay looking new for longer - it is really the better choice.

We now see that their actual cost is the same, as there have been a few occurrences of sellers selling (dealers) these so called unusual/magic/must have colours for about the same as regular colours which means that VICTORINOX DOES NOT REALLY CHARGE MORE FOR COLOURED ALOX. I know, it is shocking... Am I hinting that previously some people were making a huuuuuge profit...? maybe 

However, these regular priced items are usually bought in bulk quickly by whoever sees them first, and we have seen people buying more than they would actually use, and then sold for what is the accepted price for them, which is 2, 3 or 4 times more than they were bought. Personally I would probably have done the same thing, given the chance.

At some point the prices may lower, when due to higher supply most of the people wanting one actually get one. (see the drop in resale prices for the elsener models and other special editions)

Now, people say that they want to get coloured Alox models and that these should be available to more people OR, maybe, do they just mean that they should be available to them, so that they can show them off or resell them... How many people would like to have an orange Alox if everybody else has it too? I would love to get a few hundred special colours and then slowly sell them for a huge profit, I think.

How would they feel if something they bought for $200 becomes available to everybody for $50 or less (e.g. coloured Cadets)

Would they be happy that everybody else is happy and that their special item is not really special?

A few years ago they made the smaller BMWs a reduced scale model of the larger ones and if you did not have them next to each other you could not really tell immediately which model it was.  This made the smaller BMW owners happy, but the owners of the bigger ones that paid several times more money, were not impressed....

[twiliter]

That was in the 'crazy' thread for good reason. It's pretty beat up for that price, maybe a prime example MIB would be worth over $200, like this one >> http://www.sakwiki.com/show_image.php?id=968 << which could get a super high price with the right bidders in an auction format. BIN listings like that are fueled by greed, I have no doubt.

All I can say to that seller is good luck finding that 'special buyer', if they really wanted to sell it they would be more intelligent about listing it. 

[buck]

Once upon a time I collected antique Colts and Winchesters and felt reasonably safe about the investment.  Then it dawned on me that ninety something percent of that money was not about the gun but the finish and condition thereof.  I got nervous having a lot of money tied up in that last micron of fragile bluing or color case hardening and sold it off.

The same applies to that fragile anodizing so I'll be damned if I'm going to have a K tied up in that.

[cbl51]

I'm knew to this alox crack addiction thing and have so much to learn.  My first reaction to stumbling upon the following ebay auction was to say to myself "Is there no limit to alox greed?".

No, there is no limit to alox greed or any other greed. Whenif comes to moony, rule number 2 of life comes into play. Rule number 2; In the end, it's always about the money.

The other factor that comes into ;lay is, we humans have a defect I've gene that tells us that if someone says something is 'special' then we have to have it. No matter if it's being scalped at a much higher price than normal, we'll still buy it. At least some people will. And unscrupulous merchants will take advantage of that. Hype something up as 'special' or trendy, and watch the price go up way past it's real world value, and watch the people line up to pay the price! Greed has no limit, nor does consumer gullibility. Madison avenue advertising experts have been taking advantage of all this for decades. If you hype any product as special, or giving the customer a feeling of belonging to a special group, you can charge what you like and get it most of the time.

[gardenvalley]

There is a limit to greed in the case of that knife and it is imposed by the market because nobody has bought it at $999. In effect ATM it is worth nothing. It has been on the Bay at that price for months, surely any collector worth their salt would know about it by now? If I were the seller I`d be running the sale Dutch auction style with a $50 reduction every time I re-listed it. That would get some interest going and may even result in a sale! The horror!

[Joe58]

There is a limit to greed in the case of that knife and it is imposed by the market because nobody has bought it at $999. In effect ATM it is worth nothing. It has been on the Bay at that price for months, surely any collector worth their salt would know about it by now? If I were the seller I`d be running the sale Dutch auction style with a $50 reduction every time I re-listed it. That would get some interest going and may even result in a sale! The horror!

I agree. It's been on eBay for a long time. Drop the price down and sell it already rather than wait for that "one guy" to happen along with more money than sense.

See the same thing at gun shows. Particular firearms for the last several years that the seller won't budge on his price. Drag it around for 5 years waiting on "the guy" to happen along. Please, enough already. Lol. Back when I had a table at a couple local gun shows, I actually had other sellers complain that I was pricing too low. Often, they'd buy something from me, only to put it on their table for a higher price. Hilarious.

[ironraven]

Lets look at this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Victorinox-93mm-Pioneer-Swiss-Army-Knife-Red-Alox-Old-Cross-1997-97-Stamp/331560040726?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D622bdf9702d8466d81ae9a5d78954331%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D121530319018&rt=nc

Pioneer with red alox scales. If it was from 1997, it's been used hard, look at the blade.

$150? Really? Thats just insulting. And it's craziness like this that has me liking alox, but I won't chase it through fleabay.

[nsa-x-file]

I had a feeling this would come up again.
As someone who has a very large Alox knife collection I personally buy/trade knives to add to my own collection and don't care about any future resale value or selling at huge inflated prices. If others decide to try and get whatever they can for a knife then that's up to them and I have no problem with that. It's the buyers choice and the market will dictate what people are willing to pay.

This will always hurt the core collecting community and makes it near impossible for new collectors to start on a small budget.
If I had to start collecting Alox knives all over again I wouldn't even bother the way things are right now. As others have said this is not a new thing and there will always be people that buy items in demand just to sell on for as much profit as they can.

I'd rather sell/trade any spare knives with fellow collectors and help when I can.

With regards to other stores selling Alox models/colors that have been sold in the past as limited runs I really don't care either. For example If they came out with new Alox Farmers in Purple, Brown, Copper It would be great for new collectors to get one finally. If I paid a lot more for a knife the first time around then that was my choice at the time.


Until Victorinox stops making Alox knives altogether this will always happen.



 

[Joe58]

Jaime - I think you're spot on. I've purchased a few from you to help my modest collection at what I always considered to be fair market values. Even less perhaps often times. And it's always appreciated.

On eBay, it's easy to spot the gougers looking for $125 for instance, for a plain cross silver electrician. Nice knife, little hard to find, but c'mon man.

But as you say, it's a buyers market. Anything for sale is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

Having had the need to sell off the bulk of my collection a few years back, the current Alox prices has forced me into narrowing my focus quite a bit however. Course my focus is a bit out of whack when it comes to Alox.

[MWDP]

I had a feeling this would come up again.
As someone who has a very large Alox knife collection I personally buy/trade knives to add to my own collection and don't care about any future resale value or selling at huge inflated prices. If others decide to try and get whatever they can for a knife then that's up to them and I have no problem with that. It's the buyers choice and the market will dictate what people are willing to pay.

This will always hurt the core collecting community and makes it near impossible for new collectors to start on a small budget.
If I had to start collecting Alox knives all over again I wouldn't even bother the way things are right now. As others have said this is not a new thing and there will always be people that buy items in demand just to sell on for as much profit as they can.

I'd rather sell/trade any spare knives with fellow collectors and help when I can.

With regards to other stores selling Alox models/colors that have been sold in the past as limited runs I really don't care either. For example If they came out with new Alox Farmers in Purple, Brown, Copper It would be great for new collectors to get one finally. If I paid a lot more for a knife the first time around then that was my choice at the time.


Until Victorinox stops making Alox knives altogether this will always happen.

Absolutely my thoughts. Except maybe for that last bit... If Victorinox first makes a numbered run of something and calls it a limited edition, then puts out the exact same thing without numbering, I think that's just Victorinox playing dirty.

I run the Victorinox Alox Facebook group (link in my signature) and I banned around five people this month because I had hard evidence they bought pink and gold alox from Seitz Kreuznach and sold them for 6 times the original price. I know it might be wrong of me, but at least I can prevent them from finding out when and where LE alox will be sold.

Finally, I think the only way one can hope of building a collection today is through trading and having very good connections. Or a boatload of money, apparently...

[nsa-x-file]

Absolutely my thoughts. Except maybe for that last bit... If Victorinox first makes a numbered run of something and calls it a limited edition, then puts out the exact same thing without numbering, I think that's just Victorinox playing dirty.

I can see your point. Although what if the limited run numbering was just added afterwards and not by Victorinox at all?
Do we think Victorinox would make an official Alox limited run of just 50pcs and then number each one?
If you think about it there are lots of companies that can add any engraving you like to a blade at anytime? Just a thought. 

[buck]

I'm not going to pay a lot for a number on a blade.

It reminds me of commemoratives.  Or new in box guns.  When the box starts adding a lot of money to the package people quickly start counterfeiting boxes.  You can even buy blank Colt labels on gunbroker.

[sawman]

I've commented on this before. My problem is with Vic themselves making these Alox in such limited quanitities. Why not crank out a million?!??!? Let's everyone enjoy!  Bastids

[cbl51]

I've commented on this before. My problem is with Vic themselves making these Alox in such limited quanitities. Why not crank out a million?!??!? Let's everyone enjoy!  Bastids

I agree with this.

[Lynn LeFey]

Because a million people don't WANT them. Then they'd be stuck with a ton of unsellable product. The best option is to produce as many units as you can guarantee you can sell. That means not-quite-enough for everyone who might want them.

Sorry. While it might annoy the smurf out of collectors, it's a wise business model.

I know this isn't a popular stance, but I think people buying a $30+ knife because the scales are a different color is, putting it bluntly, stupid.

If your kid came to you and screamed bloody murder to get the new Action-power-ninja Action figure, and it looked EXACTLY like their 20 other figures, but no, this one has Mega-Zord-Space-Kaiju tiger striping, you'd think the kid was an idiot. Right?

(Lynn puts on flak vest, awaits incoming fire)

[sawman]

Because a million people don't WANT them. Then they'd be stuck with a ton of unsellable product. The best option is to produce as many units as you can guarantee you can sell. That means not-quite-enough for everyone who might want them.

Sorry. While it might annoy the smurf out of collectors, it's a wise business model.

I know this isn't a popular stance, but I think people buying a $30+ knife because the scales are a different color is, putting it bluntly, stupid.

If your kid came to you and screamed bloody murder to get the new Action-power-ninja Action figure, and it looked EXACTLY like their 20 other figures, but no, this one has Mega-Zord-Space-Kaiju tiger striping, you'd think the kid was an idiot. Right?

(Lynn puts on flak vest, awaits incoming fire)

Cheers Lynn

I'm all for opening up my wallet but there's got to be some value there

[Don Pablo]

Its been said before by many people, Its all psychology! 
I admit that I get tempted by such items some times, not always SAK'S.

[SAK Guy]

Hey, I've done dumber things...... (and they didn't triple in value in 2 years)

[buck]

Because a million people don't WANT them. Then they'd be stuck with a ton of unsellable product. The best option is to produce as many units as you can guarantee you can sell. That means not-quite-enough for everyone who might want them.

Sorry. While it might annoy the smurf out of collectors, it's a wise business model.

I know this isn't a popular stance, but I think people buying a $30+ knife because the scales are a different color is, putting it bluntly, stupid.

If your kid came to you and screamed bloody murder to get the new Action-power-ninja Action figure, and it looked EXACTLY like their 20 other figures, but no, this one has Mega-Zord-Space-Kaiju tiger striping, you'd think the kid was an idiot. Right?

(Lynn puts on flak vest, awaits incoming fire)

Recalls the cliche "the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys."

[Don Pablo]

Theres even a star trek TNG episode titled 'The most toys'.
 
 

[nsa-x-file]

Theres even a star trek TNG episode titled 'The most toys'.
 
 

I remember that, DATA got kidnapped by a collector of rare items.