No new Leathermans in 2016?

[Aloha]

I'd like to see a channel lock type MT?  Add a few drivers, blade, and file.

I also like the idea of OHT variants.

Just because a certain MT is not for me, many of their OPTs or Juice line doenst mean their crap.  I have no issues with them "trying" new stuff and applaud them for taking stabs at new MT users.  I would like to see them dial in their QC.  I think it would also be neat to see them offer the Wave, Surge, MUT with 154 or S30V blades. 

Anyone think offering a small wrench like Vic is a bad idea?  I think these type accessories would do well. 

If Lm wants to get into the bush craft/Survival arena then maybe offer a nice fixed blade.  They can partner with some of the best designers like many knife companies do. 

 

   

[sawman]

I do like your idea of 154cm blade steel on more models

[Aloha]

I do like your idea of 154cm blade steel on more models

I know LM doesn't want us disassembling our tools so offer up some options.  I also think unlike offering the rebar plier head for the Wave for example the "upgraded" blade makes the Waves asking price more realistic.

  I'd really like to see them offer up just the blades since we see TTC doing it.  They have to know many people are doing it anyway.   

[sawman]

That's right. They've got to do something.. offer something more in order to justify their overly high prices. It seems they're grabbing our money and stiffing us with the bare minimum. I want the most for my money. This is why unless LM cleans up their act I will not be giving them anymore business.

[Aloha]

I forget who mentioned re-releasing some of their classics.  Leatherman "Heritage" line would be neat.  Stamp them with "Heritage" to differentiate them from the earlier iterations. 

Tosh's had a wonderful idea regarding the pruners.  Why not reintroduce them?  Hell they went after the skateboarders why not the avid gardeners.  I know I spent s bunch on landscaping in my time so a quality tool would be cool.

I was also wondering what would be the negative about LM selling parts?  I'm talking internal parts for the all the current production models.  I know the warranty is great but I think they'd possibly save by having replacement part available.  A customer snaps a blade, no problem, buy the blade.  We wear out a file, no problem buy a new one.   I'm sure they'll still be a bunch of warranty claims but many wouldn't have to be without their tool in the mean time. 

I figure if LM wants to nickel and dime us then theres no better way than to sell misc parts.

Aw well just me rambling   

[AimlessWanderer]

Adding in the premium knife steels would just bump the price even higher, and to be honest, it wouldn't sway me anyway. I'm perfectly happy with a well treated 420 steel.

I think changing the Wave plier head is inevitable, as it reduces costs long term by shifting liability for the wire cutters onto the user. Why have the cost of repairing or replacing a tool, when you can get the customer to foot the bill and buy new inserts instead.

[Aloha]

Adding in the premium knife steels would just bump the price even higher, and to be honest, it wouldn't sway me anyway. I'm perfectly happy with a well treated 420 steel.

I think changing the Wave plier head is inevitable, as it reduces costs long term by shifting liability for the wire cutters onto the user. Why have the cost of repairing or replacing a tool, when you can get the customer to foot the bill and buy new inserts instead.

Sadly you're right,  I was more thinking their asking price deemed better steel.  I do like the steel they use just more wishful thinking than anything.  The Wave and Surge asking price is steep and while not Charge TTi price the Wave's asking price has risen considerably.  They've not added anything of value yet ask a whole lot more.  I definitely feel the MUTs asking price demands a better steel. 

[sawman]

Now you've got me thinking... did our INCOME go up to match their price increase. Not my family's! Who the smurf do they think they are pushing the price so high and not offering any enhancements. GD CROOKS 

[AimlessWanderer]

It's not Leatherman that screws us on price 

Let's say LM makes a tool for $30 (their cost in their despatch area). They need to cover distribution costs and make a profit, BUT the buyers at the big box stores may be demanding 60% off MRSP for their orders for 2000+ units. This means to make a profit, LM would have to set the MRSP at $100 so they can get $40 per unit. The big box store distributes them and markets them at $80 (or even $65 in a sale) so the public thinks they've got a real bargain. This will be LM's bread and butter business.

LM will make more money off the smaller outlets, who can't demand 60%. Maybe they'll get 40% (LM sells at $60 per unit), and the smaller seller has to then take a smaller margin to compete with the bigger stores. This will be a smaller share of LM's business, but this compensates for the lower margins on the bread and butter stuff.

Now, if LM's costs go up (power, insurance, taxes, rates, materials, labour) by $3, and they feel they have to add on an extra $2 to cover repairing 25 years previous products having warranty repairs, that'll factor through to about $15 extra on MRSP.

These figures are invented and simplified for the explaination, and may not be "real"

Now let's look at what happens when those tools hit the UK 

LM sells at $40
Importer has to cover overseas shipping, import duties and clearance fees - cost to importer $65
Importer aims to sell at $90 (equivalent)
Biggest retailers wants 50-60% off MRSP
Importer/agent has to set MRSP at $225 (equivalent)
Retailers might sell at $180-200 (equivalent)

So a bargain price over here, is just under double the MRSP over there..... which you never have to pay 

However, even if we pay $180, LM still only gets $40

Again, theoretical figures for demo purposes only 

[AimlessWanderer]

Obviously that's grossly oversimplified as there's lots of other hidden stuff along the way: warehousing costs, distribution, marketting, product liabilities and so on and so on, but the manufacturer only ever gets a small share of the prices we see

[SteveC]

It's not Leatherman that screws us on price 

Let's say LM makes a tool for $30 (their cost in their despatch area). They need to cover distribution costs and make a profit, BUT the buyers at the big box stores may be demanding 60% off MRSP for their orders for 2000+ units. This means to make a profit, LM would have to set the MRSP at $100 so they can get $40 per unit. The big box store distributes them and markets them at $80 (or even $65 in a sale) so the public thinks they've got a real bargain. This will be LM's bread and butter business.

LM will make more money off the smaller outlets, who can't demand 60%. Maybe they'll get 40% (LM sells at $60 per unit), and the smaller seller has to then take a smaller margin to compete with the bigger stores. This will be a smaller share of LM's business, but this compensates for the lower margins on the bread and butter stuff.

Now, if LM's costs go up (power, insurance, taxes, rates, materials, labour) by $3, and they feel they have to add on an extra $2 to cover repairing 25 years previous products having warranty repairs, that'll factor through to about $15 extra on MRSP.

These figures are invented and simplified for the explaination, and may not be "real"

Now let's look at what happens when those tools hit the UK 

LM sells at $40
Importer has to cover overseas shipping, import duties and clearance fees - cost to importer $65
Importer aims to sell at $90 (equivalent)
Biggest retailers wants 50-60% off MRSP
Importer/agent has to set MRSP at $225 (equivalent)
Retailers might sell at $180-200 (equivalent)

So a bargain price over here, is just under double the MRSP over there..... which you never have to pay 

However, even if we pay $180, LM still only gets $40

Again, theoretical figures for demo purposes only 

sounds like the importer is doing the gouging .

[sawman]

Ya, the importer is really putting the screws to you big time... TBH, I'd rather see them go out of business than have to charge so much be it here or overseas.

[AimlessWanderer]

What I'm getting at, is that it's a cumulative effect. Lots of people all having their slice of the cake. Over here taxation is applied twice as well, firstly as import duty (before agents and retailers add their percentage) then again as a sales tax of 20%. even if everyone has a modest but sustainable (for them) margin, the end price is still several multiples of what the manufacturer has to make it for. Over there the same applies too, but to a lesser extent as the logistics are cheaper, and there's less people in line wanting their slice

[sawman]

I'm not disputing you but how come Gerber can sell the MP600 so cheap 

[AimlessWanderer]

Same rules apply, but for the sake or arguement they can make it for half the price due to lower labour costs and other reduced overheads (they don't have the financial burdens our manufacturers do). Everyone applies the same percentages along the way, and it still hits the shelves at half the cost, but the manufacturer still only gets a wee slice of that retail price

[sawman]

This has me wondering why bother producing anything with so many parasites latching on along the way 

[kirk13]

I like what Al said about Gerber. You get a top quality tool for a reasonable price and my butt hole doesn't seem to hurt like when I buy a Leatherman product 

Steve,have you seen a doctor about that?

[sawman]

I like what Al said about Gerber. You get a top quality tool for a reasonable price and my butt hole doesn't seem to hurt like when I buy a Leatherman product 

Steve,have you seen a doctor about that?

You of all people should know what I'm talking about given your outrageous import prices. It's a REAL medical condition.

[BASguy]

Good to know that my Surge is an over priced piece if junk. I don't know how I ever fixed anything with it. Good thing I never used it hard on anything like farm machinery, trucks, chainsaws, barbed wire, vacuum pumps, pressure regs, striped out nuts and bolts...

It's good to know that your $100 tool does all the same things around the ranch that my $40 one does. 


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[ducttapetech]

I paid $80.00 for my Surge. And it came with a with leather sheath, two bit cards, bit extender,  pocket clip and lanyard ring. And since my junk can do what the MP600 can do, is it still junk? Yes I paid more to get outside blades and a few cool features, but so did you when you got a Vic Spirit, and they cost just as much as a Surge. Guess Vics are junk too?
Either way, I am gonna use my junk and will be quite happy with my junk.
To each his own.

I am done with this thread.

[BASguy]

I paid $80.00 for my Surge. And it came with a with leather sheath, two bit cards, bit extender,  pocket clip and lanyard ring. And since my junk can do what the MP600 can do, is it still junk? Yes I paid more to get outside blades and a few cool features, but so did you when you got a Vic Spirit, and they cost just as much as a Surge. Guess Vics are junk too?
Either way, I am gonna use my junk and will be quite happy with my junk.
To each his own.

I am done with this thread.

Look elsewhere for an argument, I'm not interested.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[Aloha]

What about linesman plier based MT?  Maybe a wire cutter based tool?  Looks like I'll never get hired on at LM 

[bdAmmo]

What about linesman plier based MT?  Maybe a wire cutter based tool?  Looks like I'll never get hired on at LM 

Unless you can think of another one piece tool that cost about $2.85 to produce. 

You'd be in like flynn

[kirk13]

I paid $80.00 for my Surge. And it came with a with leather sheath, two bit cards, bit extender,  pocket clip and lanyard ring. And since my junk can do what the MP600 can do, is it still junk? Yes I paid more to get outside blades and a few cool features, but so did you when you got a Vic Spirit, and they cost just as much as a Surge. Guess Vics are junk too?
Either way, I am gonna use my junk and will be quite happy with my junk.
To each his own.

I am done with this thread.

Look elsewhere for an argument, I'm not interested.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

 

Gentlemen,play nicely! By all means state your opinion,but there's no need for disrespect,either of a tool or a member!

[Sea Monster]

From a personal standpoint, I am happy to see a company do a few things, and do them well, without having to release a new version every two weeks to keep the market interested.

but that's not how you can see much growth, and unless people are willing to pay twice as much for a product, we need to accept being the "guinea pigs" for companies to release unfinished or half-designed kit, to be tested by the user and save their R&D team from breaking a sweat.

It is the finding that balance between First Run - Review- Re-Release.

I worry sometimes that they do the first run, decide people are buying it as is, and then just pump them out, flaws and all.

I don't know what the quantity is that LM (or anyone else) has to sell to pay for the designers, tooling, marketing etc before they break even and can

A. Rest on their laurels and drive around in bentleys or
B. Design another one and start the whole damn process again.

(Plus the age-old gripe for Aussies, our wholesale cost is well above US retail, never mind our Retail cost. LM (or Danner, or any other US brand that you can get) doesn't see an extra cent of it, but we end up paupers and unlikely to buy more of the product unless absolutely necessary, reducing overall sales)


EDIT: So apparently 50ft Trad said all the same thing, much more eloquently and with some math figures to really sell the concept.

So don't mind me, I'm just up past my bed time and talking crap.

[Demel]

What about linesman plier based MT?  Maybe a wire cutter based tool?  Looks like I'll never get hired on at LM 

I agree. I'm tired of seeing needle nose pliers on EVERY MULTI IN THE MARKET I would love to see all the other plier head styles being tried.

[Aloha]

How I wish LM or any company would send prototypes to MTo.  Let some of you all have a go at the tool and follow up with feedback.  I was pretty happy when the Surge got replaceable wire cutters, now I'd be even more stoked to see them with blunt nose. 

The Wave would be kick arse with a scaled down blade exchanger and exterior scissors. 

I don't know what the manufacturing process is but they sure did change the Juice pretty quick.  I do wonder if they make prototypes of many of the things we talk about but someone ultimately says NO.  Not suggesting we inspire these possible prototypes mind you.  I figure there has got to be someone at LM who is chomping at the bit to design some wicked tool. 

I've still yet to get the Raptor, which makes me wonder, how many tools need to be sold for them to feel they have a winner?

[sawman]

How I wish LM or any company would send prototypes to MTo.  Let some of you all have a go at the tool and follow up with feedback.  I was pretty happy when the Surge got replaceable wire cutters, now I'd be even more stoked to see them with blunt nose. 

The Wave would be kick arse with a scaled down blade exchanger and exterior scissors. 

I don't know what the manufacturing process is but they sure did change the Juice pretty quick.  I do wonder if they make prototypes of many of the things we talk about but someone ultimately says NO.  Not suggesting we inspire these possible prototypes mind you.  I figure there has got to be someone at LM who is chomping at the bit to design some wicked tool. 

I've still yet to get the Raptor, which makes me wonder, how many tools need to be sold for them to feel they have a winner?

Had someone sent me a Signal to "test" I imagine I'd have a tad "friendlier" reception to it but I'm not about to PAY $120 for something that never should have left a trial phase! I'm not paying Leatherman for the privilege to try their ideas

[Etherealicer]

I wanted to say, they probably bring out a Thread in gold... but apparently we already got this:

[BASguy]

I paid $80.00 for my Surge. And it came with a with leather sheath, two bit cards, bit extender,  pocket clip and lanyard ring. And since my junk can do what the MP600 can do, is it still junk? Yes I paid more to get outside blades and a few cool features, but so did you when you got a Vic Spirit, and they cost just as much as a Surge. Guess Vics are junk too?
Either way, I am gonna use my junk and will be quite happy with my junk.
To each his own.

I am done with this thread.

Look elsewhere for an argument, I'm not interested.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

 

Gentlemen,play nicely! By all means state your opinion,but there's no need for disrespect,either of a tool or a member!

No argument here, I wasn't spoiling for a fight. 


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun