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Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?

us Offline gustophersmob

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Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
on: December 24, 2011, 03:36:59 AM
Howdy!

Just curious what everyone's thoughts are on rivets or screws for use in multitool construction.

Since 95% of my multis are SAKs, pretty much everything has rivets.  So far they seem to work quite well, but I wonder about user serviceability if they ever loosen up.  Probably not a concern on bigger tools like the Swisstool, Spirit or 111mm liner locking ones, but "normal" SAKs, maybe?  :think:

I find it interesting that other companies seem to be inconsistent when using screws or rivets, i.e., Leatherman.  Most of the larger tools seem to have screws, but some are torx, others the proprietary kind.  Not sure of their reasoning there.

I know that a lot of tactical knives have or are migrating to screwed construction.  I think Spyderco has switched most of their line over to screws the last few years.

So, what are your thoughts?
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ca Offline Metropolicity

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #1 on: December 24, 2011, 04:50:49 AM
Stress, this I must.

I HATE rivets. No adjustability, no repairing, no modding, no nothing.

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us Offline Ashley

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #2 on: December 24, 2011, 04:59:07 AM
Rivets blah :( screws awesome. :D


us Offline tattoosteve99

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Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #3 on: December 24, 2011, 08:02:48 AM
Rivets suck period!
If I remember correctly, wait, what was I saying?


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #4 on: December 24, 2011, 09:38:46 AM
I still think each have their place.  Yes, screws are easier for folks to mod, but that's not exactly at the forefront of manufacturers thinking I guess. ;) 

The thought has just struck me that manufacturers seem to use rivets more if they are dealing with backsprings.  Can that be right?  Is there a disadvantage to using screws that are likely to be under more pressure?  I'm going to have to give this some more thought. :think:
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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #5 on: December 24, 2011, 03:19:40 PM
The advantage of rivets for the manufacturer with generous warranties, is that they know if the tool has been tampered with.  Thats all I can think of.
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us Offline Singh

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #6 on: December 24, 2011, 03:27:40 PM
I still think each have their place.  Yes, screws are easier for folks to mod, but that's not exactly at the forefront of manufacturers thinking I guess. ;) 

The thought has just struck me that manufacturers seem to use rivets more if they are dealing with backsprings.  Can that be right?  Is there a disadvantage to using screws that are likely to be under more pressure?  I'm going to have to give this some more thought. :think:

An insightful question.  A very interesting point to ponder. 

I think Victorinox uses rivets because of design and engineering considerations. The whole "voiding the warranty" reason is a tertiary concern.

The current LM Wingman uses torx screws and I believe the reason there is to keep things cheap (easier to put in a screws than mess with rivets). But for the rest of the LM, line, I  don't now.

I don't mod so I prefer rivets.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 05:18:07 PM by shamus »


us Offline gustophersmob

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #7 on: December 24, 2011, 03:50:07 PM
So, all of you who said you hate rivets will be sending me your SAKs and Swisstools ASAP, right?  ;)  >:D

I think that an advantage rivets provide is a more maintenance free tool for the end-user with nothing that needs adjusting.  Every knife/tool I've had with screws (exceptions being loc-tited leathermans) has eventually loosened up and required tightening.  Whereas all of my SAKs are still tight and only seem to get loose after they have been abused.

Another thing I was thinking about is that, even though the majority here seem to prefer screws, is that most manufacturers using screws are using tamper resistant screws.  So, in theory they are user adjustable, but the manufacturer isn't using them for that reason.  Some exceptions obviously are the new low-end leathermans and maybe Spyderco (although Spyderco says that taking a knife apart voids the warranty).

Gareth has an interesting point.  I wonder if it is due to the use backspring, or that most of the big makers using backsprings have been doing so long before the rise of screw together construction, like Case and Victorinox, so it is more of a traditional thing?

Thanks for all the replies, interesting discussion!
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00 Offline Carlos

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #8 on: December 24, 2011, 05:44:06 PM
When leatherman launch the PS4 / CS4 they were using torxs but later switched to rivets. If I remeber correctly, I think the reason they gave was that rivets would allow a slimmer profile for the tool.


us Offline Mercury

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #9 on: December 24, 2011, 06:20:48 PM
Rivets have their place but I much prefer screws.  I wish leatherman would use more common screws in their construction to make cleaning(modding) easier.


ca Offline Metropolicity

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #10 on: December 24, 2011, 06:32:42 PM
The advantage of rivets for the manufacturer with generous warranties, is that they know if the tool has been tampered with.  Thats all I can think of.

What's a waarraannnttyy? I believe word left my vocabulary when I became a full time designer haha
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us Offline MirrorEdge

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #11 on: December 24, 2011, 06:38:59 PM
p
The advantage of rivets for the manufacturer with generous warranties, is that they know if the tool has been tampered with.  Thats all I can think of.

What's a waarraannnttyy? I believe word left my vocabulary when I became a full time designer haha
You seem avoiding the warranty of most of your tools because of moding


us Offline tattoosteve99

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Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #12 on: December 24, 2011, 09:36:10 PM
So, all of you who said you hate rivets will be sending me your SAKs and Swisstools ASAP, right?  ;)  >:D

I think that an advantage rivets provide is a more maintenance free tool for the end-user with nothing that needs adjusting.  Every knife/tool I've had with screws (exceptions being loc-tited leathermans) has eventually loosened up and required tightening.  Whereas all of my SAKs are still tight and only seem to get loose after they have been abused.

Another thing I was thinking about is that, even though the majority here seem to prefer screws, is that most manufacturers using screws are using tamper resistant screws.  So, in theory they are user adjustable, but the manufacturer isn't using them for that reason.  Some exceptions obviously are the new low-end leathermans and maybe Spyderco (although Spyderco says that taking a knife apart voids the warranty).

Gareth has an interesting point.  I wonder if it is due to the use backspring, or that most of the big makers using backsprings have been doing so long before the rise of screw together construction, like Case and Victorinox, so it is more of a traditional thing?

Thanks for all the replies, interesting discussion!
Your not getting my tools so hands off! I can re-rivet my tools if I need too.
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us Offline turnsouth

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #13 on: December 25, 2011, 12:11:59 AM
I think it has a lot to do with skilled trade. If you watch a Vic being made, the assembler seems to be well acquainted with the rivet press he or she is using, probably even apprenticed. When you watch the final Leatherman assembly, the workers seem to have a "line worker" look to them...

Not saying either is good or bad, but it would just make sense that you would want skilled workers pressing rivets on 13 million lifetime warranted SAK's and tools each year.
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us Offline gustophersmob

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #14 on: December 25, 2011, 01:09:50 AM

Your not getting my tools so hands off!

 :D

I can re-rivet my tools if I need too.

This is something I wish I could do... I have practised on SAKs, but it never turns out pretty.  :-\
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Offline sotto

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #15 on: December 25, 2011, 04:36:22 PM

I think that an advantage rivets provide is a more maintenance free tool for the end-user with nothing that needs adjusting.  Every knife/tool I've had with screws (exceptions being loc-tited leathermans) has eventually loosened up and required tightening. 

Since I got a couple CRKT Get-A-Way tools awhile back, of course I had to drag out my knife collection and try adjusting the tension on the screws (whether they needed it or not--and most didn't BTW). One thing I noticed was that, often, there was what appeared to be blue Loctite on many of the screws I removed. So, if I want to reduce the chance of any screws loosening in the future, I'll probably use the Loctite treatment. And yes I know there are different strengths of Loctite (purple=low strength, blue=medium, red=high).  :cheers:


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #16 on: December 25, 2011, 11:39:30 PM
I think the engineers choose between screws and rivets based on the design, with no regard to warranty issues, etc. Take Leatherman for instance, they use screws in many of their products, but the Juice line has been assembled with rivets for over ten years now, and the Squirt line for nine years. :salute:
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us Offline turnsouth

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Re: Pins/Rivets vs. Screws?
Reply #17 on: December 26, 2011, 12:16:44 AM
I think the engineers choose between screws and rivets based on the design, with no regard to warranty issues, etc...

Agreed Bob, but... the sad thing is that the engineers usually don't run the company, the bean counters do.

Perfect example is the automotive production business. I've seen many times where I have gone for training on a new, or yet to be released vehicle, and the training materials will be written based on a completed production model, only to require rewriting because the vehicle assembly has changed before leaving the factory (sometimes even in mid production).

One specific example I can think of: There was a panel attached to the inside of a door with 7 screws, but it was changed to being fastened with 4 rivets, just to save cost. To justify the cost savings the money watchers had to weigh the fact that a robot can quickly assemble 7 screws without supervision, against 4 rivets which cost much less, but must be installed by a skilled worker (or a more expensive robot). They also must compare warranty costs in where a panel can be removed and replaced with no replacement parts required when using screws, but the rivets must be replaced, and require more labor.

It all comes down to $$$.
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