Newbie Sharpening Angle question

[ketchupgun]

I have a Wave and it finally got dull. The only sharpener i had with me was a "v-sharpener" by Victorinox which works AMAZING on SAKs.
I ran my wave thru it and yes, it sharpened it, but I am guessing it sharpened it at a different angle.
How do I get it back to the Leatherman factory default?

Take it to a knife store to do professionally?

[bdjeep]

I have a Wave and it finally got dull. The only sharpener i had with me was a "v-sharpener" by Victorinox which works AMAZING on SAKs.
I ran my wave thru it and yes, it sharpened it, but I am guessing it sharpened it at a different angle.
How do I get it back to the Leatherman factory default?

Take it to a knife store to do professionally?

Proper sharpening angle is a function of knife steel, intended use, and perhaps blade geometry.  IOW the angle that Leatherman uses might or might not be ideal for your use.  You can sharpen with any angle that you want, but some angles require removal of a lot more material than other angles.  If you want to sharpen back at the original angle, first you would have to find out what that angle is.  Then either hire someone to sharpen it for you in which case you might or might not get the angle that you want, or just rig up your own sharpener to the correct angle.

[turnsouth]

From Leatherman:

What are the blade angles of our knives?

The main bevel grind (the overall angle that defines the knife) varies slightly depending on the product but is close to nine degrees. The actual cutting edge grind for all plain-edge knife blades is 32 degrees. This is the same angle used on all our plain-edge blades - Crater and Expanse series and our multi-tools. The serration angle on the Crater and Expanse combo knives is 16 degrees. Our other serrated blades fall within the same range with slight variances depending on the product.

[Carlos]

Taking on this, I have a question I've been wanting to ask. So Leatherman plain blades have a factory 32º angle, so they can be sharpened with the 30º (15+15) setting of the Sharpmaker, for example. But what about chisel blades, like the Squirt PS4 blade, are those at 16º from factory?

[bdjeep]

So Leatherman plain blades have a factory 32º angle, so they can be sharpened with the 30º (15+15) setting of the Sharpmaker, for example.

If it starts at 32 and you wish to sharpen it at 30, this is called reprofiling the edge and you will have to remove a lot of material before you even get down to the edge itself.

For general use knives most people, including Spyderco, recommend sharpening at 40 degrees.  For a knife that started at 32, it will be easy to sharpen it at 40 and it will make the edge more durable.  30 degrees is only recommended for specific cases including the hardest of steels, which Leatherman doesn't use.

[kmanct3]

I use the Sharpmaker for all my LM's, it does a fantastic job.I think it could be possibly the best sharpener on the market.You tube has lots of video's on the matter, check it out.

[turnsouth]

In all practical experience, this is what I have found with Leatherman blades:

• On average, the blade angle is around 30 degrees
• Blade angle is very rarely exactly 32 degrees
• The angle on any particular blade can run anywhere between 25 to 40 degrees from the factory
• The end of the blade, within 1/2 inch of the tip, on the curved portion, is almost always sharpened at a different angle than the rest of the blade
• The sharpened portion of the tip of the blade is usually concave
• 50% of the blades have a uneven edges from side to side, which is in effect creates a different angle when the blade is held perpendicular
• Sharpening a factory edge to either 30 or 40 degrees will require approximately the same amount of work
• Getting the edge to either 40 or 30 degrees really does not remove much metal at all

[Beerplumber]

I agree with that! I grabbed a used Fuse for a coworker and put an edge on it for him the other day. I use a lansky guided system. One side went really well except for the tip, the bevel was uneven so I wasn't catching the cutting edge where the blade curves up. The opposite side was worse, I got a good edge but it didn't match the grind at all. Was using the second notch from the bottom, I think it 30 degrees-ish. Whatever, it's sharp and will probably see some abuse.


Stay multi my friends

[bdjeep]

the bevel was uneven so I wasn't catching the cutting edge where the blade curves up.

My theory after discussing this with knifemakers is that you should initially sharpen the knife with something like 36 degrees, and this will sometimes require a lot of removal of material to reprofile the edge.  I have a coarse diamond stone that I made a stand for to hold it at 18 degrees from vertical.  Then you can sharpen the edge with the 40 degree setting of the Sharpmaker and you will be removing material only from the very edge.    This gives you a double bevel edge that is durable but easy to re-sharpen.  When I get some time I need to do this whole process with my new Skeletool.  Its edge is very erratic and there are even some bumps where the cutter stuttered or skipped or whatever.

[turnsouth]

Been messing with knives for 40 years, met a lot of knife makers and knife sharpeners, one thing for sure is that if you get ten of them in a room, you will get ten different opinions .

And here is number eleven Something that I have found is that it is twice as easy to add a back bevel to a cutting edge as it is adding a cutting edge to a back bevel. Just my 2¢...

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Okay, here's my yet different opinion.

When I need to sharpen a new blade, if it's a blade that's going to see heavy use and possibly abuse (the kinds of hack and slash stuff I typically use a knife like my Endura for), I reprofile the edge to be a convex grind.

I start off shallow, about 20º or so (so far I do all my sharpening by hand on a stone) to pare the edge back a bit.  At this point, I'm not actually working on the edge, but the back portion of the grind of the edge, at the body of the blade.

Once I'm happy with that, generally got it even and extended the grind a mm or so, I step up my angle to about 25º and repeat.  Then to about 30º and repeat.

At this point I step up a very small amount, just a couple of degrees until I'm happy with it, then up again another couple of degrees.  At this point I'm shortening the grind of the edge, rounding it off a little bit.  I continue until I get an even and smooth edge I'm happy with, and then finish the edge from there.

This gives me an edge very much like you'd put on an axe.  I prefer this for heavy duty knives (and beaters, like my Tenacious and Resilience) and MT's that I'm going to be using roughly, because while it is a tad less sharp, it's a lot more durable of an edge, and holds longer than a simple flat grind edge. 

I don't do this for my EDC knives, such as my Stretch, or any of my SAK's however.  I prefer regular flat grinding because it does produce a sharper edge.

[8thsinner]

In my experience, blade angles should match both the steel in question and the intended use.
I will sharpen my axes to about 15-20 degrees or there about, as they are good axes, my tti, has probably a 12-13 degree angle, because the blade steel is that much better, it can handle this edge for my use which is purely utility purpose. Older 420hc edges of mine from leatherman have been done about 20 degrees. Though this did dull a little too quickly so I would personally aim now for about 25 degrees.

I don't see any need to go as high as 32 degrees unless it is a splitting axe. But I too often have a problem with factory edges being far far too high. Thats just me

[OddFuture]

If your using a sharpmaker. I just watched a video and the guy wrapped some sandpaper around the stones so that it took a lot of material.

Here's the video.

[Mr. Whippy]

Personally, I've found the Spyderco Sharpmaker does an excellent job with most steels.  On some Spydercos with hollow grinds, it can take a while to get it reprofiled where it cuts as well as factory new.  That said, the Spyderco edge angle is very durable and once a blade is reprofiled to it, they tend to stand up to a lot of abuse (at least in my case... )

[MeadMaker]

Okay, here's my yet different opinion.

When I need to sharpen a new blade, if it's a blade that's going to see heavy use and possibly abuse (the kinds of hack and slash stuff I typically use a knife like my Endura for), I reprofile the edge to be a convex grind.

I start off shallow, about 20º or so (so far I do all my sharpening by hand on a stone) to pare the edge back a bit.  At this point, I'm not actually working on the edge, but the back portion of the grind of the edge, at the body of the blade.

Once I'm happy with that, generally got it even and extended the grind a mm or so, I step up my angle to about 25º and repeat.  Then to about 30º and repeat.

At this point I step up a very small amount, just a couple of degrees until I'm happy with it, then up again another couple of degrees.  At this point I'm shortening the grind of the edge, rounding it off a little bit.  I continue until I get an even and smooth edge I'm happy with, and then finish the edge from there.

This gives me an edge very much like you'd put on an axe.  I prefer this for heavy duty knives (and beaters, like my Tenacious and Resilience) and MT's that I'm going to be using roughly, because while it is a tad less sharp, it's a lot more durable of an edge, and holds longer than a simple flat grind edge. 

I don't do this for my EDC knives, such as my Stretch, or any of my SAK's however.  I prefer regular flat grinding because it does produce a sharper edge.

A convex edge can be very tough.  I tried my hand a free hand sharpening with my waterstones and thought I had messed up because my flawed technique produced a convex edge on my CS4.  After using it awhile I found out that it preformed well and held up well.  Two years later I have not had to resharpen it.  I just strop it occasionally to keep the edge keen. 

I use a Sharpmaker on my kitchen knives and some of my woodworking knives because, as Heinz points out, the flat bevels make a sharper edge that works better for slicing.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

MM; yeah, doing a convex grind is definitely more work and can be a PITA to do...  I actually learned how to do it back in HS when I was a kitchen worker in various restaurants.  I'd fallen out of practice until the last year or two when I got back into doing my own sharpening.  Despite the effort, I've found it really pays off in durability. 

So far my best knives are all VG10 blades, but I've been jonesing for a ZDP blade... had my eye on a ZDP Delica...  of course I'd never even *try* to put a convex edge on something like that!

[nelg]

These work well.

[dks]

I just freehand sharpen my LM tools and match the original angle..

With the curvature of the blades, the small size, the rest of the tool attached to the blade it is easier that way than with the Lansky.

LM steel sharpens nicely and easily and keeps a good edge.

[Mike]

When I freehand, I just use the mark-1-eyeball and sharpen as evenly as I can on both sides. My guess would be I'm pretty close to between 15 and 20 degrees per side.

When I  use the sharpmaker I go with 40 degree (20/20)  for my multi's, that angle works fine. What I would say is this, you can try the 30 degree (15/15) and see how it performs. If the edge is prone to rolling, go to 40 degree. It's all a matter of what holds up the best for you and what you use it for. There really is no right or wrong answer.

Mike

[bdjeep]

I posted before that my Skeletool had a few irregularities in the edge.  Today I got a little more time to work on the edge.

First, I have a photo of my sharpening setup.  I have an older Spyderco sharpmaker with only one angle setting.  I also bought a DMT coarse diamond stone to use for more aggressive edge shaping.  I had read about reprofiling edges and using different angles for the initial angle vs. the final angle so I made a stand for the DMT stone out of a few pieces of scrap wood.  This stand holds the stone a few degrees closer to vertical than the sharpmaker uses.  I can work on an edge with the diamond stone then when the sides meet I can switch to the sharpmaker and do finish up work on the actual edge itself.



Now to the skeletool-  this photo shows the initial condition.  The edge is a very coarse edge made with pretty crude cutters, and with a couple of bumps in the edge.



I started working with the diamond stone and discovered that on one side it was working close to the edge but on the other side it was not.  IOW the 2 sides were cut with slightly different angles.  Out of curiosity I checked with the sharpmaker and discovered that the slightly more open angle of the sharpmaker stones allowed the stones to come closer to the actual edge.

This is the after shot, after sharpening with both systems.  The bumps got ground down first, then the edge was formed.  It still isn't the "hair popping" edge that people talk about, but it is good enough for my use.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

That stock edge is definitely substandard.  Did it come like that out of the box?  That should never have made it past QC.

[bdjeep]

That stock edge is definitely substandard.  Did it come like that out of the box?  That should never have made it past QC.

I bought it used but it looks like the edge has not been fooled with.