SAK Confusion - Please Help!

[JRAmmon]

Ladies and Gents,
Swiss Bianco has listed a new Red Alox Soldier for sale in his latest newsletter. Now it is reported that the blade does not have the year stamped on the reverse. Hence, my confusion. Specifically; with no blade stamp, are we not looking at a Red Alox Pioneer without a key ring?
Moreover, a Soldier must have a year date stamp to be, a Soldier. Technically speaking, this certainly does not meet the criteria, as I vaguely set forth, to be a Soldier.
Can someone please clear this up so I understand.
Thank you in advance,
JRA

[Syph007]

Yep, to me that's a pioneer, and not all pioneer models (pioneer rancher etc) even had a key ring.  A soldier should have the other shield and year stamp on blade in my opinion.  Pretty weak mod there just removing a keyring.

[jan.]

But what is the definition of a soldier?
With no date stamp is a soldier not a soldier?
Is a pioneer with an year stamp a real soldier?
The first original soldiers had wooden scales, so are the with fiber scales not soldiers?
The first alox soldiers had no shield but only a WK stamp.
Afterwards they came with the rounded shield.
Victorinox has made the alox soldier from 1961 to 2008.
In 2011 there was a new shield anniversary alox SAK made by Victorinox and + B and they called it the 2011 soldier.
This new red soldier / Pioneer is a sequel of that one. It's more a homage SAK
I think the producer/factory is free to name this pioneer with no keyring the 2011 soldier.
I have more pioneers with no keyring but that are pioneers because they are sold as pioneers.

[Gareth]

It's all a matter of opinion of course, but to my mind, without the right shield, it's a struggle to think of it as a Soldier.

[Mr. Whippy]

It's all a matter of opinion of course, but to my mind, without the right shield, it's a struggle to think of it as a Soldier.

To me, Wrong shield + No year stamp = Wrong naming convention.

[Gareth]

As I say; I do think it is a matter of opinion, but I'm not all that worried about the year stamp.  When I look at one of the current Wenger SI's, despite the fact it's not got a year stamp, it's still an SI.  But if that same SAK lacked the right shield?  That's moved it into being something else IMO.

[nuphoria]

SB seems to be a law unto himself with these "special" editions.... hike up the price and anything goes.

For my money, I'd stick to proper Vics

[ICanFixThat]

It certainly could never be a 2011 Soldier as that contract is for a 111mm knife.

If one went about it right it could have been a commemorative or hommage issue... but right now, it's just a Pioneer wo/ keyring in red Alox. It would be nice to have just as it is, it does not need to be branded as a Soldier.  Silly branding makes me want to avoid it.

[Smaug]

It seems like sometimes he just buys up spare parts from Victorinox and has them assembled into a "special run" of knives, then marks them up, and here we are to buy them!

[Chako]

I am of the same opinion as Chrissy. I like collecting SAKs...however, I got quite soured with all of these "special edition" run offs. SB is not the only one doing this. I stayed away from all of those 50 knife series...as I viewed it as a bad way to fleece the SAK collector out there. Mind you, that is my personal opinion. That and I am not a big fan of muddying the models either...which seems to be what is happening right now on the SAK market.

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

It seems like sometimes he just buys up spare parts from Victorinox and has them assembled into a "special run" of knives, then marks them up, and here we are to buy them!

+1.  He has some cool stuff on his site, and has posted some cool pics on the +B Facebook page for scales and stuff, but I am not going to spend upwards of $50 for an Alox Rambler!  Sheesh!

[stressmaster5000]

I am of the same opinion as Chrissy. I like collecting SAKs...however, I got quite soured with all of these "special edition" run offs. SB is not the only one doing this. I stayed away from all of those 50 knife series...as I viewed it as a bad way to fleece the SAK collector out there. Mind you, that is my personal opinion. That and I am not a big fan of muddying the models either...which seems to be what is happening right now on the SAK market.

Amen to that! I am also thinking at some point Victorinox is going to produce and sell these things publicly for more $$ in their pockets instead of whoever ordered these "run of 50" SFO's.

[gustophersmob]

It's all a matter of opinion of course, but to my mind, without the right shield, it's a struggle to think of it as a Soldier.

This.

[marduk]

I am of the same opinion as Chrissy. I like collecting SAKs...however, I got quite soured with all of these "special edition" run offs. SB is not the only one doing this. I stayed away from all of those 50 knife series...as I viewed it as a bad way to fleece the SAK collector out there. Mind you, that is my personal opinion. That and I am not a big fan of muddying the models either...which seems to be what is happening right now on the SAK market.

To those of us who are complaining about the frequent output of new editions and especially the 50-knife series, We tend to forget that 9/11 had an enormous negative impact on both Wenger and Vic. Remember, a good percent of SAK's were sold to travelers at airport and hotels. These sources dried up immediately. As a result, Wenger was teetering on the verge of bankrupcy and there was talk it would be bought out by foreign, non Swiss companies , perhaps the Chinese. That's one of the reason Vic stepped in to take it over. Vic too suffered, loosing an estimated 1/3 to almost 50% of its business. The company is trying all sorts of new avenues to recoop its losses such as the almost monthy release of a 50-knife series, special editions, etc. So let's not be too harsh of Vic. Where would we collectors be if there were no more SAK's? P.S. I'm not a member of the Elsener family nor do I own an interest in the corporation, just a collector of SAK's dating back to the 1970's.

[stressmaster5000]

To those of us who are complaining about the frequent output of new editions and especially the 50-knife series, We tend to forget that 9/11 had an enormous negative impact on both Wenger and Vic. Remember, a good percent of SAK's were sold to travelers at airport and hotels. These sources dried up immediately. As a result, Wenger was teetering on the verge of bankrupcy and there was talk it would be bought out by foreign, non Swiss companies , perhaps the Chinese. That's one of the reason Vic stepped in to take it over. Vic too suffered, loosing an estimated 1/3 to almost 50% of its business. The company is trying all sorts of new avenues to recoop its losses such as the almost monthy release of a 50-knife series, special editions, etc. So let's not be too harsh of Vic. Where would we collectors be if there were no more SAK's? P.S. I'm not a member of the Elsener family nor do I own an interest in the corporation, just a collector of SAK's dating back to the 1970's.

I am certainly not against Victorinox or Wenger trying to make profits in this failing economy especially after 9/11. However, it is not Victorinox who is making the lion share of the profits here.

[ICanFixThat]

This is getting off topic... But I'll try to bring it back on topic with another post this weekend... for now...  I'll just say....

I like the special knives Vic has been making in the last few years, and also the ones they have been doing aimed at collectors in the online community (those Alox 50 Series as this thread is calling them).

I think it is great that Victorinox is try to help the community, as many people really want these.  They can't please everyone, but they sure seem to be trying hard recently.

I didn't have time to write a good summary of 2011... but if I did I would have titled it something like "Size Matters" as Vic produced special or models in almost every size recently, including the special 108mm Shark, and the 74mm Mammoth. ... they have been rockin'.

Nothing is perfect, because the world is far from it...   I think I'll be lookin' back at these last few years in the future as the golden years... maybe because I'll be a recovered SAKaholic, or maybe because .... oh I don't even want to think about it.

So despite the poor naming from 'Mr.Swiss'... Let's keep the cheese rollin'.

[ICanFixThat]

It certainly could never be a 2011 Soldier as that contract is for a 111mm knife.

If one went about it right it could have been a commemorative or hommage issue... but right now, it's just a Pioneer wo/ keyring in red Alox. It would be nice to have just as it is, it does not need to be branded as a Soldier.  Silly branding makes me want to avoid it.

Would the real 2011 Soldier please stand up?

[enki_ck]

Would the real 2011 Soldier please stand up?
(Image removed from quote.)

     


Great picture, BTW

[victor7000]

If someone is interested in explanations from +B about his red 2011 Soldier, you can watch his video.

[Waterlander]

Ladies and Gents,
Swiss Bianco has listed a new Red Alox Soldier for sale in his latest newsletter. Now it is reported that the blade does not have the year stamped on the reverse. Hence, my confusion. Specifically; with no blade stamp, are we not looking at a Red Alox Pioneer without a key ring?
Moreover, a Soldier must have a year date stamp to be, a Soldier. Technically speaking, this certainly does not meet the criteria, as I vaguely set forth, to be a Soldier.
Can someone please clear this up so I understand.
Thank you in advance,
JRA

I have a B+ red alox pioneer. It doesn't have a date stamp on the tang. The scales are a darker red, very very nice! It has no eyelet/keyring (for me that is a big plus). It is becoming my favorite pioneer/soldier (whatever it's called). Great user, collectable as well. Only downfall is the price 

[Syph007]

If someone is interested in explanations from +B about his red 2011 Soldier, you can watch his video.

So basically, he wanted a proper solider but vic doesn't do the blade stamping anymore, etc etc, so he is just calling the pioneer a solider because thats as close as he could get.  Which is a pioneer knife with no keyring.

Many people collect soldiers by the year, so to me it just isn't a soldier with no year stamp.

[volbu]

Agreed taking the keyring off the pioneer, with the pioneer shield logo, the engraving plate, and no date stamp on the model and also, never been supplied to soldiers!!

Anyway I d much rather if it was called red pioneer, anyway its a great SAK but no soldier and passing it as soldier is just annoying for me!

But thats just my opinion

[Waterlander]

I think it's a Pioneer. Perhaps it should be called a Pioneer Soldier. Anyway, for me the only true Soldier must have the Waffenmark on the scales, year stamp on the tang, and a hollow rivet (this had a military function for the rifle). That's my humble opinion 

[Pignut71]

I can't believe these limited run SAK's are having much of a positive financial impact on Vic? It's 50 knives at a time for goodness sake, even with the inflated prices I just don't see how it can help keep a company of this size afloat? (And I can't afford to buy them!!  )

Sorry to go off topic....

[Syph007]

The 50 count runs must be pretty much for the collector market and I bet very few are ever users.  Personally I dont like buying 'limited edition' or numbered ones.  But Im not much of a collector.  I wonder what % of Vics income is from SAK market now.  I know they took a big hit on 9/11 with all the restrictions so they diversified into watches/luggage/perfume.

[Waterlander]

..
I wonder what % of Vics income is from SAK market now.
..

10% 

[jan.]

This is the same Soldier with new shield, but this one has the yearstamp 04.

VSAKCS Soldier with certificate.


+B Soldier.