The new Vic lockback - review, critique and teardown (Pic heavy)

[Syph007]

So... two of these new knives arrived about an hour ago at my door.  To skip to the end of the story, one is already completely apart on my workbench, but I'll post everything in order.  So.. first my review.







I love these sheaths.  Nice size and they work for horizontal or vertical belt carry.  Thats the best I can say about these knives so far.

I like the size of these, they feel nice in hand but the hollow plastic handles are very poor.  They 'feel' cheapish.  One of the knives the blades locks up perfect, but the other has large lateral blade play.  The tip moves about 4 mm each way.  I was really unimpressed with that.  (you'll see why in the teardown pics)









I dont care for the finish on the blade at all.  I would much rather the shiny standard Vic finish.  The blade and lockup parts also suffer from overtumbling, as in all the corners are overly rounded off.



The overtumbling is so extreme the jimping is rendered completely useless.





Here is a comparison shot with a wenger ranger and a vic trekker. 



Comparing the new lock back with the big wenger ranger isnt even close.  The wenger blows it away and is a comparable size.  If you want a SAK in this size category go for a wenger ranger, they are superb



So while I'd still buy these again to satisfy my curiosity and to add to my Vic collection, I wont be buying anymore, and I dont feel these are on par with one Ive come to expect as standard Vic quality.

Stay tuned for teardown pics...

[enki_ck]

Hm, not very happy with what I'm seeing so far.

[Zed]

Thanks for sharing mate,think ill stick too spyderco for this type of knife 

[Syph007]

So I figured I might as well rip apart the one with the severe side play.  I took hot water from the tap and gave it a soak for a few minutes.



The scales popped off very easily.  No tools required, just finger pressure was needed and no damage done.





So they used the same bushing brass pin construction as a SAK and this really isnt appropriate for a larger folder.  The large pins are 4mm, the one smaller pin is 3mm.



None of the pins were even tight, which is good an bad.  Good as I could fix the blade play with some extra peening, but bad as I shouldnt have to and it would probably loosen again, or be too snug to move smoothly.



Notice the space between the bottom bushing and the liner.  Pretty large eh? 





So... I dont know what else to say about the method of construction other than that I dont think brass pin construction for a heavy duty folder is sufficient and not one of the rivets was peened enough.

Next is the complete tear down.

[space cowboy]

I have 2 Original Spyderco's that are better than that. Tight lockup all the way.

[Syph007]

Ok, so next was time to attack the rivets and finish the teardown.













So generally with folders, its considered proper to have phosphor bronze washers on the pivot (if its not a bearing folder) and considered low end if they just use nylon washers instead.  There are NO washers at all on this one.  Bare blade metal on bare liner metal.  Not impressed at all with that, and probably why the pivot rivet wasnt fully peened.

So its a bit of a disappointment overall.  I'll resurface the blade on this one and shine it up, and make new scales from Ti with a pocket clip and that will be about all I feel like doing mod wise to these.

Cheers

[Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Great review, Robert!  Thanks for the info.  I can safely say I'll be passing on one of these.   

[Syph007]

Great review, Robert!  Thanks for the info.  I can safely say I'll be passing on one of these.   

Thanks.  I wanted to rate it higher, and I know I am a very picky person, but I had to point out the issues I found that really bugged me.  So it wont ever replace my go to SOG or benchmade folders. 

[sir_mike]

Nice review Robert.

Didnt they also use a different steel in them?  I heard it was that 8Cr13MoV instead of the 420/440 used in saks!

[Syph007]

Nice review Robert.

Didnt they also use a different steel in them?  I heard it was that 8Cr13MoV instead of the 420/440 used in saks!

Yup, the chemistry in that steel makes it kind of like 420hc, whereas normal Vic steel is comparible to 440A.

[ICanFixThat]

Thanks for the excellent review and teardown! 

I bought a cheap one off ebay without the pouch since I have a fair number of the pouches.  Maybe the seller thought the same thing about this one and listed it ASAP, but kept the pouch.

It looks like this one will just be of some historical interest to me.

 

[Pacu]

darn. i saw those in my smoky mountain catalogue and wanted one. 

[Joe58]

Great review Robert!

May have to pass on this one.

Are these knives outsourced or made in house?

The manufacturing seems more like an outsource, but the price doesn't.

Joe

[nsa-x-file]

Great photos and review. 
I was going to get one but I'll pass now.

[Syph007]

Great review Robert!

May have to pass on this one.

Are these knives outsourced or made in house?

The manufacturing seems more like an outsource, but the price doesn't.

Joe

I know, it's hard to believe it's made by Victorinox.  It says right on it though, swiss made.   

The 15 dollar kershaw I bought has better folding action, and it has nylon washers.

I have the same feeling about this as I did the wingman.  I remember holding a wingman and thinking.. this doenst feel like a leatherman...

[ColoSwiss]

Great review.

One question: the handles are listed as dual density, but mine looks like they're one-piece. What's your take on them?

[Marius]

Excellent review, way more useful information than anywhere else, no comparison. Robert:   

Now the bad part... I was kind of expecting some of these (hollow handle for example) but not at this extent. My heart sank a bit as I was reading through... I had some hope for this knife, thinking that now that Vic made a lockback it should be something of quality.. And I wait to receive two of these... 

 

[Marius]

One question: the handles are listed as dual density, but mine looks like they're one-piece. What's your take on them?

I'll let Robert answer this properly but my guess is that the scales are nylon coated on the exterior with a thin layer of that rubbery material, thus allowing them to call these DD.

 

[powerring]

I bought one, more as a curiosity than a user though.  It's just so non-Victorinox in every way.

My mother used to collect Hummel figurines (most of which are renderings of cherubic children).  This knife is like the Hummel "St. George vs. the Dragon" figurine - completely out of place and therefore totally awesome.

In twenty years you'll be kicking yourself for not having this in your collection.   

[sawman]

Boooo!  That things junk.  Thanks for informing us before we waste our money.

[Syph007]

Great review.

One question: the handles are listed as dual density, but mine looks like they're one-piece. What's your take on them?

If there is more than one material type in the scales, I cant tell it's there.  They seem like regular plastic scales to me.  Maybe there is a coating over the whole thing, but the inside of the scale feels that same to me as the outside, so I cant tell. 

[Blitzwing]

And I think they know it too.. Hit their warehouse sale and there were crates of them for 10 bucks each

[Marius]

And I think they know it too.. Hit their warehouse sale and there were crates of them for 10 bucks each

Did you find these new Vic lockbacks for sale at $10 a piece, you mean? Were these with or without the green pouch?

[AimlessWanderer]

It is disappointing, but it's also not their speSmurfpillsed field and you get the feel looking at this tool that they are indeed outside their comfort zone. I am actually quite surprised they have moved into this market with there being so many other established makers.

I can understand people wanting to go for a big folder with the same fit and finish as a 91mm SAK, but by the looks of it, this knife isn't the answer. If I wanted to carry a large handled bulky OHO locking older like that, I'd grab my Buck X-Tract Essential. That way I'd have a phillips and flat driver, a good pair of scissors, a lanyard point and an excellent deep carry pocket clip.

Thanks for the insight 

[PTRSAK]

That looks like they took a Chinese knockoff and started selling it through official channels. The overtumbling and cheapo hollow plastic scales look  typical China cheapie.

Big Vic really dropped the ball on this one. I would have expected solid dual density or G10 scales, crisp edged shiny metalwork and a decent blade pivot setup.

This one is like a redheaded stepchild.

[gustophersmob]

Thanks for the review and teardown.  As everyone else has said, this knife just seems completely wrong to be from Victorinox.  The size, blade shape, material, build quality....  Why even bother, I wonder.

It is disappointing, but it's also not their speSmurfpillsed field and you get the feel looking at this tool that they are indeed outside their comfort zone. I am actually quite surprised they have moved into this market with there being so many other established makers.

I can understand people wanting to go for a big folder with the same fit and finish as a 91mm SAK, but by the looks of it, this knife isn't the answer. If I wanted to carry a large handled bulky OHO locking older like that, I'd grab my Buck X-Tract Essential. That way I'd have a phillips and flat driver, a good pair of scissors, a lanyard point and an excellent deep carry pocket clip.

Thanks for the insight 

I can understand this too, and that's what I thought Vic went for with the Sentinel models. Single blade, locking, options for one hand opening and a pocket clip, but still a Vic.  Its too bad they've put their name on this new thing.

[gustophersmob]

I was thinking, I know peened construction and lack of washers isn't prefered, but it does seem to work well for the 111mm series.  My OHT's open smoothly (only less smooth than say, a spyderco, due to the backspring) and have no side to side blade play.

Syph, are the Wenger Rangers built with brass pins without washers?

[Syph007]

I was thinking, I know peened construction and lack of washers isn't prefered, but it does seem to work well for the 111mm series.  My OHT's open smoothly (only less smooth than say, a spyderco, due to the backspring) and have no side to side blade play.

Syph, are the Wenger Rangers built with brass pins without washers?

Yes good point, the 111mm Vics are fine.  They are smooth finish blades though so smooth on smooth seems to slide better than this rough finish blade.  Also they have much less surface area compared to this big lock back blade.

The large wengers dont use brass pins, they are stainless rivets.  The rivet head of the steel pin forms the bushing shape that locks into the scale.

[firiki]

I was thinking, I know peened construction and lack of washers isn't prefered, but it does seem to work well for the 111mm series.  My OHT's open smoothly (only less smooth than say, a spyderco, due to the backspring) and have no side to side blade play.

I bought my 111mm models for the same reason and they seem to hold well so far. Definately up to Vic standards we all love here unlike this new lockback. I haven't tried it yet but just from looking at it and then at this excellent review here I am sure Vic got it wrong this time.

About 111mm SAK peening, I have my doubts. I think the frame is big enough to allow greater stress to be exerced on the handles than on smaller SAKs and that this could debilitate the construction eventually. I'm not very good at physics so I can't illustrate what I'm saying with equations but I noticed that after using the 2008 Soldier to clean some bamboo sticks from branches the part with the Phillips SD started squeaking occasionally with an unpleasant sound coming from the plastic handles. No rattling or side play but if I grasp that firmly it will probably squeak now.

Bamboos are tough buggers and normally I would prefer a thin fixed blade for that task. I tested the serrations instead. They worked wonders and three times the knife slipped a bit and cut through alarmingy well. Had my finger been there  but it's squeaking. It makes me dislike this lockback's handles further.   (  Could Wenger be making those  ?)

  Good job on the review, thanks! It confirms what I suspected  . 

[rmagralha]

Great review Syph, thank you! will help me to save some money.