SOG Multi-tool survey w/free Micron.

[american lockpicker]

While it may be hard for them not to outsource(actually it isn't there just greedy and want higher profits)in this economy it cost more Americans jobs and thats a bad thing.

[american lockpicker]

I heard on here that the files were Austrian.

I heard it from Spoonrobot " I've heard the files are made in Austria but don't remember if that was ever verified and can't find a source either way."


http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,5441.msg92229.html#msg92229

[DaveK]

Well Spoonrobot's posts are usually well informed - but I'd like to see some evidence of that before I believe it's any more than a rumour. Certainly only the pliers were cast in Mexico until well after the "made in USA" court case, and even then they are finished in Portland, because they show footage of the robots that do it in their promotional videos.

Certainly I have seen footage of the files being made in those videos too.

But a thought. Has it occurred to you that if some parts are not made at an affordable cost overseas, then prices would be less competitive, which would ultimately COST American jobs?

Have you also considered the income that companies like Leatherman make from selling their products overseas that keep Americans in jobs?

[american lockpicker]

Victorinox makes extremely high quality products(with very little outsourcing) and sell them at reasonable prices so why can't other companies do that.

[DaveK]

I can only surmise, but maybe US production costs are comparatively high? Besides, Victorinox outsource just about everything apart from the knives themselves don't they? Felinevet confirmed the other day that their sheaths etc are Chinese made.

[american lockpicker]

I can only surmise, but maybe US production costs are comparatively high? Besides, Victorinox outsource just about everything apart from the knives themselves don't they? Felinevet confirmed the other day that their sheaths etc are Chinese made.

I think the reason is that the US gov taxes production in the US and gives taxe breaks for outsourcing.

[DaveK]

I can only surmise, but maybe US production costs are comparatively high? Besides, Victorinox outsource just about everything apart from the knives themselves don't they? Felinevet confirmed the other day that their sheaths etc are Chinese made.

I think the reason is that the US gov taxes production in the US and gives taxe breaks for outsourcing.

I would find that highly unlikely. In fact duty would be charged on imported parts. The only viable reason to outsource to another country would be that the labour is significantly cheaper. Granted - the cost of labour includes taxes, social security payments, dental plans etc, but the biggest part of labour cost is the wages. This doesn't necessarily amount to greed on the part of the outsourcer, it may simply be the only way they can price competitively to stay in business, preserving local jobs in the process.

Like it or not, we are all part of a global economy now, and separating "home grown" from imported is getting harder all the time.

Switzerland gets most of it's electricity to power it's factories from the Ukraine and Russia, it publicises using websites running on Japanese servers, and probably maintains those sites using no end of Chinese made equipment.

Where do you draw the line?

[Spoonrobot]

On a whim; I did some googling and found the court papers for the Leatherman lawsuit. Hell Yeah! My own potential-rumor-spreading tongue is vidicated. 

direct link to the PDF: Here.

I don't have time to read the whole thing right now but here's what a search for "Austria" found.

Choice quote (from page 27):

Leatherman tools at issue underwent manufacturing processes outside the United States.
These components included: a file that was fineblanked in Switzerland and that had its
teeth cut and hardened in Switzerland or Austria; plier jaws, Phillips screwdrivers, bolster
file sides, and bolster knife sides that were investment cast in Mexico; a clip plate that
was fineblanked, deburred, formed, hardened, and polished in Switzerland; a locking T
that was fineblanked and hardened in Switzerland; a bit holder that was machined in
Canada; a saw blade that had its profile cut in Switzerland or Germany and that was
fineblanked and hardened in Switzerland; handles that were fineblanked in Switzerland; a
serrated knife blade that was fineblanked in Switzerland; and corkscrews that were
forged, coiled, hardened, and polished in France.

There is quite a bit of Swiss involvement! Could it be that when someone bashes a Leatherman tool part of that goes towards Victorinox? 

[jzmtl]

Switzerland gets most of it's electricity to power it's factories from the Ukraine and Russia, it publicises using websites running on Japanese servers, and probably maintains those sites using no end of Chinese made equipment.

Where do you draw the line?

And I believe all victorinox's steel are from France/Germany depends on time.

and corkscrews that were forged, coiled, hardened, and polished in France.

Anybody else found this funny? Of all the components and countries, corkscrew came from france.

[american lockpicker]

Is there any multitool that is entirely made in one country excluding China?

[Spoonrobot]

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,7538.0.html

 

*Probably Atwoods count too.

[I'm Still Bison]

and corkscrews that were forged, coiled, hardened, and polished in France.

Anybody else found this funny? Of all the components and countries, corkscrew came from france.
[/quote]
 When you use highly specialized features,it pays to go with the acknowledged experts I too read sometime back that Victorinox uses steel from France,Germany and Sweden.I once knew which steelmakers and if I wasn't so lazy just now,I'd go searching.

[jzmtl]

I'm pretty sure it changes from time to time depends on who wins the bid. Sweden is Sandvik, I think germany is thyssen krupp, france can't recall, but it's also a big name.

[Poncho65]

Is there any multitool that is entirely made in one country excluding China?

in a word "no" the likely hood of this in any MT is not very high since there are so many parts to a MT

a MT is very complex and even the tiny washes and small bits may be made somewhere else

ALP is there anything that you buy that isn't made outside of the US I am willing to bet that you buy plenty of things and don't know it If you buy a shirt that says made in the USA on the tag it is very likely that it's the tag only made there We can't buy stuff made in just 1 country anymore the world economy is just to dependent on each other anymore

Things aren't as simple to make as they use to be

[Poncho65]

  owe and I took the survey as well

[american lockpicker]

Is there any multitool that is entirely made in one country excluding China?

in a word "no" the likely hood of this in any MT is not very high since there are so many parts to a MT

a MT is very complex and even the tiny washes and small bits may be made somewhere else

ALP is there anything that you buy that isn't made outside of the US I am willing to bet that you buy plenty of things and don't know it If you buy a shirt that says made in the USA on the tag it is very likely that it's the tag only made there We can't buy stuff made in just 1 country anymore the world economy is just to dependent on each other anymore

Things aren't as simple to make as they use to be

I don't always buy American I also buy stuff thats made in Canada, Europe, or Israel. Also there are clothes that is American made. PM me if you want the website.

[Poncho65]

Is there any multitool that is entirely made in one country excluding China?

in a word "no" the likely hood of this in any MT is not very high since there are so many parts to a MT

a MT is very complex and even the tiny washes and small bits may be made somewhere else

ALP is there anything that you buy that isn't made outside of the US I am willing to bet that you buy plenty of things and don't know it If you buy a shirt that says made in the USA on the tag it is very likely that it's the tag only made there We can't buy stuff made in just 1 country anymore the world economy is just to dependent on each other anymore

Things aren't as simple to make as they use to be

I don't always buy American I also buy stuff thats made in Canada, Europe, or Israel. Also there are clothes that is American made. PM me if you want the website.

Nah I really don't care I buy American when I can but you can't always is my point

[DaveK]

On a whim; I did some googling and found the court papers for the Leatherman lawsuit. Hell Yeah! My own potential-rumor-spreading tongue is vidicated. 

direct link to the PDF: Here.

I don't have time to read the whole thing right now but here's what a search for "Austria" found.

Choice quote (from page 27):

Leatherman tools at issue underwent manufacturing processes outside the United States.
These components included: a file that was fineblanked in Switzerland and that had its
teeth cut and hardened in Switzerland or Austria; plier jaws, Phillips screwdrivers, bolster
file sides, and bolster knife sides that were investment cast in Mexico; a clip plate that
was fineblanked, deburred, formed, hardened, and polished in Switzerland; a locking T
that was fineblanked and hardened in Switzerland; a bit holder that was machined in
Canada; a saw blade that had its profile cut in Switzerland or Germany and that was
fineblanked and hardened in Switzerland; handles that were fineblanked in Switzerland; a
serrated knife blade that was fineblanked in Switzerland; and corkscrews that were
forged, coiled, hardened, and polished in France.

There is quite a bit of Swiss involvement! Could it be that when someone bashes a Leatherman tool part of that goes towards Victorinox? 

Well that's me straightened out then Good digging spoony!

[donvito]

  Again thx for the link, wish more surveys with free goodies were around   to SOG. Now I let them know that Wenger makes multitools as well and listed the company in the Other section each time. Also multitool.org and our forum got the proper mention as the place to go to for MT (and SAK) 411.  

[american lockpicker]

The strange thing is I actually found this forum searching for info on SOG.

[DoughDTD]

just filled mine out...hope they dont move to China   

Looking forward to throwing htat little bad-boy on my keychain!!

-Dough

[Anthony]

Wow, we can expect out Microns in about two months!  But hey if it's free, it;s for me   Shoud be a nice little thing to pop up in the mail when we're least expecting it

I also saw where they were leaning with the whole china angle.  They must desperately want to send all their designs over there and "overthrow" Leatherman by drastically cutting the price of SOG tools and riding on the SOG reputation and all the existing great reviews online of their American made tools. 

[Black Rose]

Anyhoo - who's going to use their 25% discount? And what will you use it on?

I would like to use the discount, unfortunately the knife I want to use it for isn't being released until June

[sardauker]

Survey taken, coupon code received. Hope to see the knife, even that seeing no sort of confirmation doesn't make me happy-
I see all the China affair too :/
As a non USA citizen, I think I'm not as much involved as most of you.
I've bought China-made goodies for years now; near Florence there's the biggest chinese community in Europe, that "stole work" -not my words- to Italian leathery handworkers. For one third of the price, they produce goodies that are 80% the good of the previous. It's really bad for italian leathermans (no pun intended) but not so much for buyers.
I don't know if outsourcing is really a minus for an economy; I know that I don't bother about "where", but about "how".
A cheap tool made in Germany is the same of a cheap tool made in China... maybe the China tool has an higher quality, given the lower price of manwork.

I don't know if my poor english clarifies my point of view, but I hope that's clear that for me there's no real "outsourcing" in a global economy.

[Nikos]

There is a hazy line between outsourcing and sere commerce. People have always acquired goods and services from other people; I guess, before Germany or Switzerland the countries appeared on the map, the craftsmen of those territories were already exchanging goods (e.g. metal) and services (e.g. metallurgy), and they called it "commerce". What changes today is that the "other party" may be half a globe away from you, and somebody stick it an "outsourcing" badge... Abolishing that for the mere excuse of distance or nationality doesn't make much sense. On the other hand, steering away from such "outsourcing" for reasons of quality, timeliness, etc. make all the sense in the world. Just my €0.02...

[MultiMat]

I just did the survey , mentioned multitool.org & Bob was my designated MT expert 
Hope they send you all there new products for 'expert' evaluation Bob.

[sardauker]

Unfortunately, the 25% off code is valid only for USA and Canada.
Does anybody need a PM?

[Dunc]

If this knife isn't American made I'm going to give it away.

You never know it might be better and say Swiss on the Tang 


Dunc

[american lockpicker]

If this knife isn't American made I'm going to give it away.

You never know it might be better and say Swiss on the Tang 


Dunc

Yes when hell freezes over.

[DaveK]

If this knife isn't American made I'm going to give it away.

You never know it might be better and say Swiss on the Tang 

ALP - if your "strong preference" for american made knives and tools is based on the fact that you want to protect US jobs, why is Swiss / European made gear OK with you? Just curious.