Mobile phone help needed.

[Benner]

It is time to upgrade my handset and I am looking into getting a phone that has good internet capabilities and has a full qwerty keyboard.

I am with O2 and have looked at the options available that are free and the only 2 real contenders are the Blackberry 8310 Emerald Black and the O2 XDA Zest (if anyone knows of any free others on O2 please tell me) and I cannot decide between the 2 so I need you lot to tell me what to get. 

Like I said, they key features (on top of the usual texting and phone calls) are the internet access and the qwerty keyboard which again will aid me with that. 

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks

[Whoey]

When I look for a new phone I usually compare them here: http://www.gsmarena.com/

[Benner]

When I look for a new phone I usually compare them here: http://www.gsmarena.com/

Thanks for that.

[nuphoria]

I have a Sony P1i on O2 - don't know if they're still offering them but I like it lots. It's a semi-querty keyboard but works really well. You can use to stylus to write which is a lot easier for me anyway.

[silentio]

Why would you consider the O2 Xda Zest when you want something with a QWERTY keyboard? It's quite stinky if your options are only those two. There are quite a number of considerations given your requirements. The main ones are

1. How important is the Web browsing feature (there are very few phones which provide good browsers, this will narrow it down tremendously)
2. Will you be using the data network or Wi-Fi to access the Internet? If it's a data plan, then 3G will be critical.
3. Can you live with Windows Mobile?

[Benner]

Why would you consider the O2 Xda Zest when you want something with a QWERTY keyboard? It's quite stinky if your options are only those two. There are quite a number of considerations given your requirements. The main ones are

1. How important is the Web browsing feature (there are very few phones which provide good browsers, this will narrow it down tremendously)
2. Will you be using the data network or Wi-Fi to access the Internet? If it's a data plan, then 3G will be critical.
3. Can you live with Windows Mobile?

Because it has a touch screen qwerty keyboard (I believe).

Web browsing is the key feature as it will be used whilst on holiday next week.

It'll be the data network so 3G is important.

I can live with anything. 

[Benner]

I have a Sony P1i on O2 - don't know if they're still offering them but I like it lots. It's a semi-querty keyboard but works really well. You can use to stylus to write which is a lot easier for me anyway.

Can't find that one.

Having never had to use a stylus before, I think it is that that is putting me off of the Zest.  Not sure if I'd like it or not.

[Grant Lamontagne]

The on screen, touch pad keyboard will take it's toll on your battery life, but I have to say, I would go with the XDA because of it's software platform.  The Windows Mobile platform may be second to Palm OS, but since Palm is dead (or perhaps still in the process of dying) I would avoid it.  The Blackberry OS is nice provided you only need the features that are built into it.  It's a smaller, more simplified OS, but I don't think there is nearly the amount of add on software as there is for Windows Mobile.  For example, I use my Windows Smartphone for all manner of PDA functions (Calendar, email, text messaging etc) which the Blackberry is just as good at, but then I can also use mine for reading e-books, watching downloaded or ripped videos etc.  Also, most ebooks nowadays are in .lit format, which is owned by Microsoft, meaning if you want to get into ebooks, you need to get into a Windows environment.  Usually I don't like having things like that dictated to me, but since there are additional benefits to Windows Mobile (including greater connectivity/sync to your PC) it seems like a no brainer to me.

I don't know anything specific about either of those phones, but as a general rule, I'd stick with the Windows SmartPhone.  Plus, that one looks like it might be a re-branded HTC phone- I might be wrong, but if it is, I have nothing but good things to say about my experience with HTC products.

Oh, and while this is FAR from a real benchmark test, one day I was trying to show my boss a video on YouTube, so I took his brand new, top of the line Blackberry (the one with the touch screen keyboard) and found the video.  We got so bored waiting for it to load that I pulled out my phone, opened the browser (Internet Explorer even!), went to YouTube, found the video and watched it before giving up on his loading it.  That might have more to do with different carriers, and the fact that where we were is a bad signal area anyway, but I can't help but take a little pride in it!  

Def

[Benner]

The on screen, touch pad keyboard will take it's toll on your battery life, but I have to say, I would go with the XDA because of it's software platform.  The Windows Mobile platform may be second to Palm OS, but since Palm is dead (or perhaps still in the process of dying) I would avoid it.  The Blackberry OS is nice provided you only need the features that are built into it.  It's a smaller, more simplified OS, but I don't think there is nearly the amount of add on software as there is for Windows Mobile.  For example, I use my Windows Smartphone for all manner of PDA functions (Calendar, email, text messaging etc) which the Blackberry is just as good at, but then I can also use mine for reading e-books, watching downloaded or ripped videos etc.  Also, most ebooks nowadays are in .lit format, which is owned by Microsoft, meaning if you want to get into ebooks, you need to get into a Windows environment.  Usually I don't like having things like that dictated to me, but since there are additional benefits to Windows Mobile (including greater connectivity/sync to your PC) it seems like a no brainer to me.

I don't know anything specific about either of those phones, but as a general rule, I'd stick with the Windows SmartPhone.  Plus, that one looks like it might be a re-branded HTC phone- I might be wrong, but if it is, I have nothing but good things to say about my experience with HTC products.

Oh, and while this is FAR from a real benchmark test, one day I was trying to show my boss a video on YouTube, so I took his brand new, top of the line Blackberry (the one with the touch screen keyboard) and found the video.  We got so bored waiting for it to load that I pulled out my phone, opened the browser (Internet Explorer even!), went to YouTube, found the video and watched it before giving up on his loading it.  That might have more to do with different carriers, and the fact that where we were is a bad signal area anyway, but I can't help but take a little pride in it!  

Def

Thanks for that Def.  Speed will be nice so maybe I can rule out the Blackberry then.

Turns out I can also get a Nokia 5800 XpressMusic (don't know what the keyboard is though) so any thoughts on that one as well?

[Neil]

I have the Zest on o2.  Lack of a real keyboard is not good   Its actually OK for browsing but forget using this forum or anything where typing is required.

I've found the data speed to be quite adequate.  No its not as good as wired broadband but its been fine for me so far.  I got it free on a £15/month contract.  The deal bundle comes with 100mins and unlimited text.  I swapped the bundle deal for unlimited text for all you can eat net as soon as I got the phone.

The built in pocket IE sucks unless you're hitting mobile specific sites (of which there are many these days).  It does come with opera installed but I advise uninstalling it and downloading the latest beta from the opera web site.  I'm not a beta kind of guy, I like reliability but the new version is so far ahead of the old one that I'll tolerate a few quirks.

One thing that annoys me is the screen.  Its high resolution 640x480 but alas that means I have to wear my glasses before I can use the thing as everything is tiny.

Battery life also is not sparkling.

With all that said, for free its one heck of a phone and running google maps with the built in gps and an all inclusive data allowance rocks

Neil

[silentio]

Well, I've used all the phones (or variants of it) mentioned here, so here's my two cents

The Zest is a rebranded Asus. It's quite fast because of the 624MHz processor and Asus makes good hardware. But Def has a point, the only good Win Mo phones are really from HTC, partly because they make solid hardware, but mainly because they have skinned Windows Mobile so it's more user friendly. As powerful as the platform is, the deficiencies of the default user interface are obvious. The version I have used is an unlocked Asus with no HSDPA, but the specs are the same. You will get faster internet browsing with the Zest compared with the one I used.

The BlackBerry Curve 8310 has a brilliant keyboard. While there are on-screen QWERTYs on full-touchscreen devices, you will never hit the speed of typing possible on a physical one. The 8310's browser is.. well.. rudimentary. What's more, you get only EDGE speeds over the network and no Wi-Fi. Given your needs, I'd say skip it.

As for the Nokia 5800, it's Nokia's first touchscreen phone, and a very good effort at that. The browser's pretty fast and it's pretty snappy in general. It's worth a look, if you can get it cheaply. The only reservation I have about it is that it's the first from the company, so parts of the user interface can seem inconsistent. But I'm really nitpicky when it comes to UIs, so that might not bother you.

One product I really liked recently, if you want to go the Windows Mobile route, is the Touch Diamond2. I don't know if O2 will be offering it, but its browser and overall responsiveness is top notch.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I installed Opera and didn't care for it.  I also installed Minimo, a mobile version of FF and didn't care for that either, which is why I wet back to IE.

You can also look into a Bluetooth keyboard that may be available for your phone.  I have considered an external keyboard for mine but decided I'd probably never set it up.  I had a keyboard for my old Palm but it unfortunately never worked on my iPAQ or Micah would have that too!  Before I had a laptop, the PDA and external keyboard managed to do just about all I needed a laptop for.  I couldn't edit photos for the sites, but I could word process, surf, send/receive emails etc- at least where wifi was available.

Finding an external keyboard could be a great option for you.

I had a rebranded ASUS MyPal A600/ZAYO Razor and it was a great little machine.  I'd still be using it but the battery fried on it.  Mikey (665ae) has a newer ASUS PDA so he might have more info.

Def

[turbov21]

I don't know anything specific about either of those phones, but as a general rule, I'd stick with the Windows SmartPhone.  Plus, that one looks like it might be a re-branded HTC phone- I might be wrong, but if it is, I have nothing but good things to say about my experience with HTC products.

I'll second this.  I've been using a T-Mobile Dash, which is a re-branded HTC Excalibur, since Dec '06/Jan '07 and it's been wonderful.  I had to replace the battery early last year...a $10~15 purchase off Amazon...but since then it's worked brilliantly.  HTC + Windows Mobile is a solid combination.

[Benner]

Definitely rule out the Blackberry then, which is a shame really as it has the best keypad.

So it's the Zest or the Nokia so far.  The Zest does look good, but Neils comments about the keyboard aren't exactly inspiring. 

Turns out I do have one last option of a Samsung Tocco.  Never owned a Samsung before so have no idea about them.  Silentio have you had a play with that one?

[silentio]

Definitely rule out the Blackberry then, which is a shame really as it has the best keypad.

So it's the Zest or the Nokia so far.  The Zest does look good, but Neils comments about the keyboard aren't exactly inspiring. 

Turns out I do have one last option of a Samsung Tocco.  Never owned a Samsung before so have no idea about them.  Silentio have you had a play with that one?

Yup, Neil's spot-on about the keyboard. If it's anything like the unlocked version, it comes with the small default Win Mo keyboard that requires stylus input. You either write or poke at tiny keys. But, there are third-party programs you can install to fix that. Here's one that I've used and liked http://www.cootek.com/

The keyboard options on the Nokia 5800 include a full qwerty, half qwerty and regular numeric which employs T9. The full qwerty option works well and covers almost the entire screen so it'll work for most people even with fat fingers. It does sometimes block what you want to see on the screen, but that's an acceptable tradeoff.

The Tocco is the F480. Played with it a little. It's not quite in the same league of products mentioned here because the OS is not open to developers, so you are limited to whatever "widgets" provided by Samsung and your operator. In other words, if you don't like the browser and text input, there won't be options. Samsung just announced availability of the Star and Preston, which are direct replacements for the Tocco. So no, I think it's not that great an option.

[Benner]

Thanks for the input again.

After looking again, I have ordered the Zest and hopefully it'll be here tomorrow.  If I don't get on well with the keyboard, then I may look into other software or even the bluetooth keyboard that has been mentioned.

Thanks for all the help all. 

[ecfiffer]

you know i am shocked no one put in a vote for an iPhone.  They are over there right?  For good reviews check ou engadget.com or boygeniusreports.com

now to my two cents

win mo devices  ho hum. i've had two in the past and the OS was laggy and buggy.  But Def is right, there is a lot of software.

BB's (crackberrys, or what ever you wanna call em)  for what you are wanting sounds like a good fit.  There OS is so much soother then win mo.  and you also have app world (bb take on the app store)

Nokia's OS (symbian) is (i think) linux based and is sweet.  the reviews i've read on their e71x and other pda type smart phones say that it kicks the crap out of bb's. 

and then there the iPhone.  the toy that jsut seems to work for everyone.  I know I am on the iPhone bandwangon and would get one if the darn data plan was not such a rip off...  but alas go play with the phones you are looking at and see which one fits you better

[Whoey]

just a wild guess, but didn't he say he was looking at phones he could get for free or very low cost on his plan?

I'm betting the iphone is premium, and not sure who the carrier is in the UK anyways?

[Abstraction]

just a wild guess, but didn't he say he was looking at phones he could get for free or very low cost on his plan?

I'm betting the iphone is premium, and not sure who the carrier is in the UK anyways?

It's O2 and it's ridiculiously expensive still, particularly now the iPhone is even further behind the competition in terms of hardware features and doesn't appear to be catching up particularly fast with it's latest release this summer. 

Fantastic interface on the iPhone and they look great but it will propably be windows mobile for me again next upgrade. They can act a bit slower (though that's what happens when you have multiple apps running on a phone) and the interface isn't as good out of the box but the ability to customise them and the ridiculous amount of free software available are what sell them to me.  I'd be tempted back to symbian if they bring out a decent touch screen phone with slide out qwerty though and am keeping an eye on what google and apple do before my next upgrade just in case they change my mind.

I've used the Zest before Benner and it's a very nice WM phone.  The screen is very nice; it's not quite up with the top line of phones but as it's not a 'premium' pda it was a hell of a lot better than i expected, crisp clear and a decent size, the only issue is it's useless in direct sunlight but since you're from my neck of the woods that will only be an issue one or two days a year  

It's also actually faster than the TyTN II which i have and which was a top of the range phone when i got it a year ago, has better specs and is more optimised for the new version of windows mobile.  The only real issue with it is whether you like windows mobile as an OS, as it does take a while to get used to, to find the programs you want (and to realise there is a program to do ANYTHING) and the battery life - which always sucks with WM devices. 

Also i dont think it has a slide out keyboard which means using the windows touch keypad - a word of warning, windows default on-screen pad sucks, so you're probably going to need to replace it with something that suits you.  I've not really looked into those unfortunately as I've always had keyboards on my WM phones but im sure there is a good recommendation out there.

[edit] Just seen that that point had already been made, missed it earlier!  There are loads of replacements which are good enough, it's just a matter of finding one which works for you really.

Sorry i didn't see this thread before you'd actually ordered it, kind of defeats the object, offering advice after your decision is made 

[Benner]

just a wild guess, but didn't he say he was looking at phones he could get for free or very low cost on his plan?

I'm betting the iphone is premium, and not sure who the carrier is in the UK anyways?

Yep, as Abstraction said below, they still cost a bomb to get.

[Benner]

just a wild guess, but didn't he say he was looking at phones he could get for free or very low cost on his plan?

I'm betting the iphone is premium, and not sure who the carrier is in the UK anyways?

It's O2 and it's ridiculiously expensive still, particularly now the iPhone is even further behind the competition in terms of hardware features and doesn't appear to be catching up particularly fast with it's latest release this summer. 

Fantastic interface on the iPhone and they look great but it will propably be windows mobile for me again next upgrade. They can act a bit slower (though that's what happens when you have multiple apps running on a phone) and the interface isn't as good out of the box but the ability to customise them and the ridiculous amount of free software available are what sell them to me.  I'd be tempted back to symbian if they bring out a decent touch screen phone with slide out qwerty though and am keeping an eye on what google and apple do before my next upgrade just in case they change my mind.

I've used the Zest before Benner and it's a very nice WM phone.  The screen is very nice; it's not quite up with the top line of phones but as it's not a 'premium' pda it was a hell of a lot better than i expected, crisp clear and a decent size, the only issue is it's useless in direct sunlight but since you're from my neck of the woods that will only be an issue one or two days a year  

It's also actually faster than the TyTN II which i have and which was a top of the range phone when i got it a year ago, has better specs and is more optimised for the new version of windows mobile.  The only real issue with it is whether you like windows mobile as an OS, as it does take a while to get used to, to find the programs you want (and to realise there is a program to do ANYTHING) and the battery life - which always sucks with WM devices. 

Also i dont think it has a slide out keyboard which means using the windows touch keypad - a word of warning, windows default on-screen pad sucks, so you're probably going to need to replace it with something that suits you.  I've not really looked into those unfortunately as I've always had keyboards on my WM phones but im sure there is a good recommendation out there.

[edit] Just seen that that point had already been made, missed it earlier!  There are loads of replacements which are good enough, it's just a matter of finding one which works for you really.

Sorry i didn't see this thread before you'd actually ordered it, kind of defeats the object, offering advice after your decision is made 

I appreciate the input. 

It arrived this morning and is currrently on charge.  I'll see what the keyboard is like and go from there.