NOT pleased with leatherman

[Tool]

Since I received my Charge TTI a vew days ago, my opinion of the Leatherman company has changed for the worse.
How come?

Let me show you:


This is what I discovered today: A crack in the pliers. Note that I have NOT even used the pliers.



This, however is not all that is wrong, next we have rough/unfinished edges



Okay let's move on to the next thing: The file is rubbing (from what I've read, this occurs quite a lot)


And last but not least: Inconsistent finish on the handles (notice the difference between the left and right handle). Mine also came with free scratches. All of the scratches you see in these pictures were there when I took it out of the package for the first time.


Sadly, this has pretty much confirmed any prejudices I had against American products and finishing. My next multitool will therefore probably be a Victorinox.

I feel like they really dropped the ball on this model (the Charge in general)
Some may feel that I am nitpicking here, but I expect a product of this price to be flawless.

[Anthony]

The cracked plier head is a definate no-go and I'd send it back, but the rough cutouts on the knives can be remedied with a peice of sandpaper, and the differently finished handles woulden't bother me in the least

To each his own though, Victorinox is A++ in fit and finish.

[Mr. Whippy]

Is it really a crack or just an imperfection in the casting?  I'm not sure there's any "weakness" in that flaw.    I guess I'm used to seeing various machining marks on my user tools (not just multitools, but shovels, picks, chainsaws, hammers, etc).  I find that acceptable except on a show piece.

That said, when my Vic Spirit was new, it had a flawless mirror finish.  (I've since fixed that.  )

Sorry you're disappointed in the LM, but I would be interested in whether that's a casting imperfection or a real crack.

[jzmtl]

I think you are expecting too much especially with your last point. It's a tool, not a jewelry.

[cliosguy]

got it! that(first photo) came from the stoppers inside the handle that prevent the plier head from catching with the inside blades

[AHB]

I think you are expecting too much especially with your last point. It's a tool, not a jewelry.

I can see your point, jzmtl, but I would be a little dissapointed too... (Being his first MT and all....)
After all he did some reading and ask for advice on which MT to choose, so if there's a crack in the plier, lack of finish on the blade, along with file-rubbing,
then the scrathes could just be "the last nail in the coffin"..
My XTI has the file-rubbing too, so I close it carefully.. 
(+1 on the spirit finish..  )

[Sean]

Sometimes I feel prices go up on some things and quality seems to go down.

My life with tools was a lot simpler once upon a time.  I remember back in the mid 90's buying my first multi.  It was a Supertool.  All I did was admired it's heft and pulled out each of the tools to see what I came with it and folded it back up, sheathed it, and that was that until it was needed.
Well... things change when you join forums.  you start to inspect things a little more closely.  Is it riveted or (God Bless) a torx for adjustment?  Is there a bit of play in that blade?    Forge, cast, what year is stamped on handle?  Honestly it bothers me too that my file rubs on the aluminum handle of my alx, and that it sometimes the pliers bind when closing so I have to re-open to get it to close. 
Anyhow, sometimes I yearn for times gone by when I really didn't give a s**t.   



sean

[AHB]

Anyhow, sometimes I yearn for times gone by when I really didn't give a s**t.   
sean

Pure poetry... 
I did alot of reading on the SURGE! before it was delivered, and I opened the box with trembling hands,
in case it (God forbid) should RATTLE...
But it didn't... 

(Let's just say: SURGE! one more time...)

[Tool]

got it! that(first photo) came from the stoppers inside the handle that prevent the plier head from catching with the inside blades

I first thought that would be impossible because it seemed longer than the distance the pliers move inside the tool, but I just retraced the path and it seems te make sense. I now have some better light available and it is not a crack. (it wasn't a casting inperfection either). This still seems just a bit like bad design though, such noticable wear from folding? Maybe I should start designing these things

It is not a showpiece to me at all, but things do add up. I mean, it's ok if it shows wear from regular usage, and I can sand the parts down myself, but I'd like it to be flawless when new

I decided to keep it because the damage is not structural, but still think they could do better. Maybe they should start manufacturing them in China or Taiwan, cheaper labour and superior fit and finish

[nuphoria]

I'd be a bit disappointed too I think. It's a shame you have a cruddy example of what is a good tool. 

[AHB]

got it! that(first photo) came from the stoppers inside the handle that prevent the plier head from catching with the inside blades

Maybe I should start designing these things

Be sure to send me a prototype for testing....

[jzmtl]

I think you are expecting too much especially with your last point. It's a tool, not a jewelry.

I can see your point, jzmtl, but I would be a little dissapointed too... (Being his first MT and all....)
After all he did some reading and ask for advice on which MT to choose, so if there's a crack in the plier, lack of finish on the blade, along with file-rubbing,
then the scrathes could just be "the last nail in the coffin"..
My XTI has the file-rubbing too, so I close it carefully.. 
(+1 on the spirit finish..  )

That's why I don't buy "luxury" model that's otherwise identical to the cheaper cousin.

[AHB]

That's why I don't buy "luxury" model that's otherwise identical to the cheaper cousin.

+1  (but they sure are nice... )

[Tool]

I think you are expecting too much especially with your last point. It's a tool, not a jewelry.

I can see your point, jzmtl, but I would be a little dissapointed too... (Being his first MT and all....)
After all he did some reading and ask for advice on which MT to choose, so if there's a crack in the plier, lack of finish on the blade, along with file-rubbing,
then the scrathes could just be "the last nail in the coffin"..
My XTI has the file-rubbing too, so I close it carefully.. 
(+1 on the spirit finish..  )

That's why I don't buy "luxury" model that's otherwise identical to the cheaper cousin.

Rational thinking really is the way to go in life, but where's the fun in that?
Besides, have you seen the shiny titanium handles that save you a whopping 1-10 grams, it feels like a feather in your pocket!
And further, the CX models of the Freestyle and Skeletool, with ultralight-yet-strong space-age carbon fiber insert. The blocky weave patteren bringing back all those 80's memories!
Don't even get me started on the featured Diamond-Like-Coating, it's like... ...DIAMOND like man! 

You know you want it 

got it! that(first photo) came from the stoppers inside the handle that prevent the plier head from catching with the inside blades

Maybe I should start designing these things

Be sure to send me a prototype for testing....

You'll get the first one, I'll get your forum nickname engraved in it
 

[Grant Lamontagne]

This reminds me an awful lot of my first experience with the Charge... 

Def

[AHB]

You'll get the first one, I'll get your forum nickname engraved in it
 

[Blackbeard]

I think the rough edges on the thumb grooves is very common in all leatherman products.

Vic Spirit or swisstool RS are more refind in the fit & finish departments. The Wave is another good alternative, I sent my Charge back due to similar issues, and dont plan on buying one untill major changes are made.

[Gareth]

That's a shame.  of all the things you've listed it's the poor finishing on the titanium that would really bug me.  The scratches will, in time, be lost amongst the ones you'll add as a working tool.  The rough edges can be cleaned up.  But I agree that it's all stuff that you shouldn't have to live with in a brand new tool. 

[Crouton]

With the exception of the cracked plier I have most of these same issues on all my Charges, it's something I look past because the Charge/Wave is still the best tool for my needs.

The fit and finish on my swisstool spirit is clearly superior to my charges, but the charges are still more useful to me.

It really is a shame though.  I returned a TTi because the depth of the textured indented portion was inconsistent and clearly wrong.  The leatherman charge lettering was way wider on one scale than the other.

I have a Swiss spirit for trade if you want to get tired of your charge TTi  

[Sean]

I'd be a bit disappointed too I think. It's a shame you have a cruddy example of what is a good tool. 

hey a little off-topic here but whoa you joined a ways behind me I think and already your a no-lifer!    Wow! 
Congratulations.

[Sean]

With the exception of the cracked plier I have most of these same issues on all my Charges, it's something I look past because the Charge/Wave is still the best tool for my needs.

The fit and finish on my swisstool spirit is clearly superior to my charges, but the charges are still more useful to me.

It really is a shame though.  I returned a TTi because the depth of the textured indented portion was inconsistent and clearly wrong.  The leatherman charge lettering was way wider on one scale than the other.

I have a Swiss spirit for trade if you want to get tired of your charge TTi  

What about that ratchet?  Bet your not getting rid of that huh Jeff? 

[Crouton]

What about that ratchet?  Bet your not getting rid of that huh Jeff? 
[/quote]

I'd actually have a hard time letting go of that swisstool ratchet and bit kit, what a cool piece of kit.

[Sean]

IMO, that's the best part of a Swiss Tool is the ratchet set. 

[ratslash7]

oK. My latest tool is a TTI. It's been my EDC for 3 months now. It is the best multi-tool I've ever owned and I use the crap out of mine. I'll bet on average I use my multi for 10-20 different tasks a day.

Movement in the blades or unreliable lock up would be an issue for me. I think we've established that there is not a crack in the pliers and I'll bet if you give the file a good shove in the other direction it wont rub any more.

I'm a Tool & Die maker who has been hard on Leathermans since there was Leathermans. For the kind of work I do, a Charge TTI is the tops. ( although I could still recommend improvements).

You've got a killer tool there. now go out and try to break it.

It's not a problem until it's a problem.


the beer is talking to some degree tonight. this is probably just my opinion and not Gospel... can't tell right now.)

Dave
 

[DaveK]

Makes sense to me ratslash, beer or no beer!

The Charge above clearly has a few issues, but I've never really understood what "fit and finish" (my most hated phrase on here) has to do with tools. Sure, if things don't fit properly and the tool doesn't perform as a result, then I can see it's a problem. But, as someone already said, it's a tool, not jewellery.

That said, if you're not happy, the warranty would take care of you.

Just a thought, the hole on the OH opening blade is (I  think) supposed to be rough so you get some grip to open it. Try one of the new Gerber models (e.g Flik) to see what happens when you try and OH open a blade with nicely rounded, polished hole. "Fit and Finish" can work against you!

[Gareth]

I kinda agree Dave as I think the term "fit & finish" is over used.  However I'd say that the above Charge does poorly on both aspects:

  The file that is scraping against the liner is a good example of poor fit, and if the mark on the plier head is caused by it striking on something I'd say that is another. 

  The different textures on the titanium is a great example of poor finish.  Also it's one that I find particularly bad as it can be seen at a glance and no matter what you do with the tool it will always be like that.

  I think you have also given a good example of what I would think of as poor finish when you mentioned the OHO hole on the Gerber.  If a tool comes out with a finish that is detrimental to it's operation then that surly is still a poor finish.  Just one that has been overworked rather than not enough.

[Blackbeard]

oK. My latest tool is a TTI. It's been my EDC for 3 months now. It is the best multi-tool I've ever owned and I use the crap out of mine. I'll bet on average I use my multi for 10-20 different tasks a day.

Movement in the blades or unreliable lock up would be an issue for me. I think we've established that there is not a crack in the pliers and I'll bet if you give the file a good shove in the other direction it wont rub any more.

I'm a Tool & Die maker who has been hard on Leathermans since there was Leathermans. For the kind of work I do, a Charge TTI is the tops. ( although I could still recommend improvements).

You've got a killer tool there. now go out and try to break it.

It's not a problem until it's a problem.


the beer is talking to some degree tonight. this is probably just my opinion and not Gospel... can't tell right now.)

Dave
 

If i'm spending $100 on a MT, I should not have to align the file myself, by giving it a shove. The QC is just not there on the charge from what i've seen and read

[Crouton]

Fit and finish is a very important thing.  It's second only to function.  The term "fit and finish" refers to overall finished quality of any tool.  In other markets it's fit and finish that seperates an economy car from a luxury one, and it implies a set of expectations regarding quality.

Excellent fit and finish is designed into the build process of the tool, and it's also evidenced in the post build activities to ensure that the tools meets the design and quality assurance criteria.  I am not intending this post to be a flame on any brand or manufacturer, but let's say we took ten examples of a Charge TTi and ten examples of a Victorinox Swiss Spirit and compare them.  Just in comparisons among tools of the same kind, apples to apples if you will, how many small issues or differences would we find on the Spirit?  How many on the Charge?  Fit and finish cannot be dismissed, it's important.

I take great care in selecting my multi-tools and I weigh one tools benefits over those of another.  The fit and finish quality is just one of the qualities that I evaluate.

Ultimately it is a personal choice as to which multi we all choose to EDC, and I have chosen a Leatherman Charge TTi, and I have chosen it despite some pretty annoying fit and finish issues, and only after returning the first one I received.  I still however, occasionally pull out my Victorinox Swiss Spirit and marvel at it's clearly well thought out, well designed, and well implemented features.  Overall the quality is exceptional when compared to other tools I own.

I tried to mention "fit and finish" as I possibly could in this post  I think as multi-tool consumers we have a right to expect excellent build quality, especially in a product presented as a premium tool at a premium price.


All this having been said I still love my TTi, warts and all.

Oh and BTW....fit and finish.

[DaveK]

Well, I've got 10 Charges and they're all perfect, but that's by the way.

I really don't think your car analogy is valid tbh. Sure "fit and finish" (or shininess as I like to call it) might be factors when buying a car, but what really matters is speed, reliability, speed, coolness, speed and the stereo. It depends what you're in the market for I suppose, but prettiness is way down the list for me. Of course, if you can get both (which only exists in Aston Martins btw ) that's great.

Funny that we agree completely about the Vic tools. I too get them out and "play" with them from time to time. As I've said before, the clickiness (TM) is great, but ultimately completely useless to me if I just need to tighten up a screw.

I guess it's easy for me to say though, as I've none of these issues with any of my Charges!

Given me a good idea for a new thread though Crouton, cheers........

[Ben X]

You won't be disappointed with a Victorinox multi. I recently bought my first Swiss Tool and first Leatherman Kick, and they are from completely different quality levels. I have not personally handled the "higher end" leathermans, but there is no such thing as a "higher end" VIctorinox- the classic SD and the Swiss Tool both leave the factory oozing with the same world class quality.