What's the fascination with farmer?

[I'm Still Bison]

A little off topic, but I would love to have a Farmer with an added metal file. 

+1 
              Deciding between a Farmer and a OHT is like a parent having to choose between two children.I like them both,but the heft of the Farmer is one of those little confidence inspiring things that you really can't quite define,but you know you like it.

[LatinoHeat]

Although I chose the Farmer, I can't agree that the OHT only does things "differently".  The saw is longer which is a bonus, it has the added feature of the lock on the blade and the flat driver/ prybar and it has a phillips and the toothpick and tweezers.  All of those are plusses (ignoring knife laws) of the OHT, not just "differences".

Saying that though, I still prefer the farmer.

Well, actually the difference in size between the two saws, in actual use, is pretty irrelevant.  It's not like the OHT has a saw that's 6 inches longer.  They can pretty much do the same thing.  The locking feature is a non issue as well.  Like I said, I use the same caution when using ANY knife, locking or not.  As far as I am concerned, NO knife has a lock, because none has a lock I trust my fingers with, so again, it's pretty negligible.   The Phillips head COULD be an issue, but the small screwdriver on the Farmer's canopener handles phillip's screws petty darn well.  And the toothpick and Tweezers?
Come on, Benner.  REAL MEN DON'T USE TWEEZERS!!!   
LOL.
I'm just bustin your chops.

[cliosguy]

Although I chose the Farmer, I can't agree that the OHT only does things "differently".  The saw is longer which is a bonus, it has the added feature of the lock on the blade and the flat driver/ prybar and it has a phillips and the toothpick and tweezers.  All of those are plusses (ignoring knife laws) of the OHT, not just "differences".

Saying that though, I still prefer the farmer.

Well, actually the difference in size between the two saws, in actual use, is pretty irrelevant.  It's not like the OHT has a saw that's 6 inches longer.  They can pretty much do the same thing.  The locking feature is a non issue as well.  Like I said, I use the same caution when using ANY knife, locking or not.  As far as I am concerned, NO knife has a lock, because none has a lock I trust my fingers with, so again, it's pretty negligible.   The Phillips head COULD be an issue, but the small screwdriver on the Farmer's canopener handles phillip's screws petty darn well.  And the toothpick and Tweezers?
Come on, Benner.  REAL MEN DON'T USE TWEEZERS!!!   
LOL.
I'm just bustin your chops.

+1

[Leatherman123]

Although I chose the Farmer, I can't agree that the OHT only does things "differently".  The saw is longer which is a bonus, it has the added feature of the lock on the blade and the flat driver/ prybar and it has a phillips and the toothpick and tweezers.  All of those are plusses (ignoring knife laws) of the OHT, not just "differences".

Saying that though, I still prefer the farmer.

Well, actually the difference in size between the two saws, in actual use, is pretty irrelevant.  It's not like the OHT has a saw that's 6 inches longer.  They can pretty much do the same thing.  The locking feature is a non issue as well.  Like I said, I use the same caution when using ANY knife, locking or not.  As far as I am concerned, NO knife has a lock, because none has a lock I trust my fingers with, so again, it's pretty negligible.   The Phillips head COULD be an issue, but the small screwdriver on the Farmer's canopener handles phillip's screws petty darn well.  And the toothpick and Tweezers?
Come on, Benner.  REAL MEN DON'T USE TWEEZERS!!!   
LOL.
I'm just bustin your chops.

I disagree with you. A longer saw is extremely advantageous...it cuts faster. Look at files, a 3 inch file works SO much better than a 2.5 inch file because it requires less strokes to complete the task. It would be the same thing with saws...the more TPI the less strokes required to complete the tasks, generally.

A lock blade whether you trust it or not is a lot safer than a knife held open by spring tension. I have tried to force close an OHT lock and haven't succeeded.

The can opener isn't a good replacement for a real philips. I remember a forum member saying that he messed his can opener up after using it a few times..

All IMO, but the OHT is superior option. The ability to open a blade one handed is a must for me.

[LatinoHeat]

Although I chose the Farmer, I can't agree that the OHT only does things "differently".  The saw is longer which is a bonus, it has the added feature of the lock on the blade and the flat driver/ prybar and it has a phillips and the toothpick and tweezers.  All of those are plusses (ignoring knife laws) of the OHT, not just "differences".

Saying that though, I still prefer the farmer.

Well, actually the difference in size between the two saws, in actual use, is pretty irrelevant.  It's not like the OHT has a saw that's 6 inches longer.  They can pretty much do the same thing.  The locking feature is a non issue as well.  Like I said, I use the same caution when using ANY knife, locking or not.  As far as I am concerned, NO knife has a lock, because none has a lock I trust my fingers with, so again, it's pretty negligible.   The Phillips head COULD be an issue, but the small screwdriver on the Farmer's canopener handles phillip's screws petty darn well.  And the toothpick and Tweezers?
Come on, Benner.  REAL MEN DON'T USE TWEEZERS!!!    
LOL.
I'm just bustin your chops.

I disagree with you. A longer saw is extremely advantageous...it cuts faster. Look at files, a 3 inch file works SO much better than a 2.5 inch file because it requires less strokes to complete the task. It would be the same thing with saws...the more TPI the less strokes required to complete the tasks, generally.

A lock blade whether you trust it or not is a lot safer than a knife held open by spring tension. I have tried to force close an OHT lock and haven't succeeded.

The can opener isn't a good replacement for a real philips. I remember a forum member saying that he messed his can opener up after using it a few times..

All IMO, but the OHT is superior option. The ability to open a blade one handed is a must for me.

LOL.  You read too much, LM123.  Have you treid them both?  I have used the say on my OHT, and the saw on a 91MM SAK, and the function in real world application, it is pretty irrelevant.  I mean, what are you planning on cutting down with these, a red wood?  Either one is meant for smaller jobs.  Sure they can handle larger jobs, and both do it fairly equal.
Locking blades?  The fact is, our fathers and grandfathers got along perfectly fine without a lock on their folding knives.  Before slipjoints there were friction folders.  I am not against locking blades, they certainly have their place.  But to suggest that it is the lock that makes them safe is not quite right.  It is US who make them safe, our knowledge of how to use a knife.  I haven't had a lock-less knife close on me since I was a kid, but I have had liner licks give while using them.  The morale there was not to put your trust in a lock, but in your own good judgment.
As for the can opener not being a good phillips head, again, you read it.  Have YOU ever twisted up a can opener driver?  I have, once, yet have used the screw driver on my can opener blade hundreds of times, on hundreds of phillips head screws with much success.  Fact is, I have bent and twisted dedicated screw drivers.  It depends on how hard the screw is screwed in.
Ya gotta try these tools out, LM, and not just read what others say.  Not that they are lying or are wrong, but ANYTHING could have happened when they used said tool.  You yourself have to use the tools and find out for yourself what works.  Like I said, I don't HAVE to read files, or the stories about given knives.  I use them for myself.  If I have never used one, I have no opinion one way or the other.  

[Leatherman123]

Are you honestly saying a short saw works as good as a longer one? The liner lock knife that closed on you was probably low quality!

[LatinoHeat]

Are you honestly saying a short saw works as good as a longer one? The liner lock knife that closed on you was probably low quality!

LOL.  I guess I am.  Just to illustrate my point, we were cutting PVC pipes one day at work, and one of the guys had a full lenth PVC cutting saw, and I had my Leatherman Wave saw, which is MUCH smaller then the dedicated saw he was using, and I smoked him.  I cut those pipes much faster then he did, so.... seeing that there are actual real life results in the equation, what i am saying is that a smaller saw CAN work not only as good, but better then a longer one depending on who is using it.  Yes.

[Bill.H]

Even more than who is using it, it's the quality of the saw more than the length. Even if they were identical except for length, does it really make a difference if you can cut something in 20 long strokes versus 22 shorter ones? Don't forget the shorter strokes take less time.

I don't trust any liner locks at all. It's way too easy to move your grip or give a little twist and have it release accidentally. I don't handle a liner lock any different that I do a slip joint. When you get to something like an AXIS lock, that's a whole different animal. Safety in in the user, not the tool - you can't fix poor training with hardware.

[jzmtl]

Are you honestly saying a short saw works as good as a longer one? The liner lock knife that closed on you was probably low quality!

LOL.  I guess I am.  Just to illustrate my point, we were cutting PVC pipes one day at work, and one of the guys had a full lenth PVC cutting saw, and I had my Leatherman Wave saw, which is MUCH smaller then the dedicated saw he was using, and I smoked him.  I cut those pipes much faster then he did, so.... seeing that there are actual real life results in the equation, what i am saying is that a smaller saw CAN work not only as good, but better then a longer one depending on who is using it.  Yes.

Not really a fair comparison since the two saws are different construction, all you can conclude is double tooth saw is more efficient.

Even more than who is using it, it's the quality of the saw more than the length. Even if they were identical except for length, does it really make a difference if you can cut something in 20 long strokes versus 22 shorter ones? Don't forget the shorter strokes take less time.

I don't trust any liner locks at all. It's way too easy to move your grip or give a little twist and have it release accidentally. I don't handle a liner lock any different that I do a slip joint. When you get to something like an AXIS lock, that's a whole different animal. Safety in in the user, not the tool - you can't fix poor training with hardware.

For cutting wood you have to deduct the width of wood from saw's length, so what you end up with is not 20 vs. 22, but more like 20 vs. 50 on a average sized tree branch. Plus more back and forth will tire out user more quickly.

as for liner lock releasing, I've never seen one release because user changed grip.

[Benner]

Although I chose the Farmer, I can't agree that the OHT only does things "differently".  The saw is longer which is a bonus, it has the added feature of the lock on the blade and the flat driver/ prybar and it has a phillips and the toothpick and tweezers.  All of those are plusses (ignoring knife laws) of the OHT, not just "differences".

Saying that though, I still prefer the farmer.

Well, actually the difference in size between the two saws, in actual use, is pretty irrelevant.  It's not like the OHT has a saw that's 6 inches longer.  They can pretty much do the same thing.  The locking feature is a non issue as well.  Like I said, I use the same caution when using ANY knife, locking or not.  As far as I am concerned, NO knife has a lock, because none has a lock I trust my fingers with, so again, it's pretty negligible.   The Phillips head COULD be an issue, but the small screwdriver on the Farmer's canopener handles phillip's screws petty darn well.  And the toothpick and Tweezers?
Come on, Benner.  REAL MEN DON'T USE TWEEZERS!!!    
LOL.
I'm just bustin your chops.

I disagree with you. A longer saw is extremely advantageous...it cuts faster. Look at files, a 3 inch file works SO much better than a 2.5 inch file because it requires less strokes to complete the task. It would be the same thing with saws...the more TPI the less strokes required to complete the tasks, generally.

A lock blade whether you trust it or not is a lot safer than a knife held open by spring tension. I have tried to force close an OHT lock and haven't succeeded.

The can opener isn't a good replacement for a real philips. I remember a forum member saying that he messed his can opener up after using it a few times..

All IMO, but the OHT is superior option. The ability to open a blade one handed is a must for me.

LOL.  You read too much, LM123.  Have you treid them both?  I have used the say on my OHT, and the saw on a 91MM SAK, and the function in real world application, it is pretty irrelevant.  I mean, what are you planning on cutting down with these, a red wood?  Either one is meant for smaller jobs.  Sure they can handle larger jobs, and both do it fairly equal.
Locking blades?  The fact is, our fathers and grandfathers got along perfectly fine without a lock on their folding knives.  Before slipjoints there were friction folders.  I am not against locking blades, they certainly have their place.  But to suggest that it is the lock that makes them safe is not quite right.  It is US who make them safe, our knowledge of how to use a knife.  I haven't had a lock-less knife close on me since I was a kid, but I have had liner licks give while using them.  The morale there was not to put your trust in a lock, but in your own good judgment.
As for the can opener not being a good phillips head, again, you read it.  Have YOU ever twisted up a can opener driver?  I have, once, yet have used the screw driver on my can opener blade hundreds of times, on hundreds of phillips head screws with much success.  Fact is, I have bent and twisted dedicated screw drivers.  It depends on how hard the screw is screwed in.
Ya gotta try these tools out, LM, and not just read what others say.  Not that they are lying or are wrong, but ANYTHING could have happened when they used said tool.  You yourself have to use the tools and find out for yourself what works.  Like I said, I don't HAVE to read files, or the stories about given knives.  I use them for myself.  If I have never used one, I have no opinion one way or the other.  

I have very little to add here accept that I have chewed up a can opener using it as a phillips and it is no comparision (IMO of course) for the real deal and if I was going to be sawing a lot I'd chose the longer (be it only marginally) saw as it may make hardly any difference, but it will be a benefit.  Comparing the Wave to that other saw is not a fair test at all (as Jzmtl said) as saw types comes into play here.

Oh, and I have actually used saws and drivers myself.  I do read a lot as well though.  

[LatinoHeat]

Although I chose the Farmer, I can't agree that the OHT only does things "differently".  The saw is longer which is a bonus, it has the added feature of the lock on the blade and the flat driver/ prybar and it has a phillips and the toothpick and tweezers.  All of those are plusses (ignoring knife laws) of the OHT, not just "differences".

Saying that though, I still prefer the farmer.

Well, actually the difference in size between the two saws, in actual use, is pretty irrelevant.  It's not like the OHT has a saw that's 6 inches longer.  They can pretty much do the same thing.  The locking feature is a non issue as well.  Like I said, I use the same caution when using ANY knife, locking or not.  As far as I am concerned, NO knife has a lock, because none has a lock I trust my fingers with, so again, it's pretty negligible.   The Phillips head COULD be an issue, but the small screwdriver on the Farmer's canopener handles phillip's screws petty darn well.  And the toothpick and Tweezers?
Come on, Benner.  REAL MEN DON'T USE TWEEZERS!!!    
LOL.
I'm just bustin your chops.

I disagree with you. A longer saw is extremely advantageous...it cuts faster. Look at files, a 3 inch file works SO much better than a 2.5 inch file because it requires less strokes to complete the task. It would be the same thing with saws...the more TPI the less strokes required to complete the tasks, generally.

A lock blade whether you trust it or not is a lot safer than a knife held open by spring tension. I have tried to force close an OHT lock and haven't succeeded.

The can opener isn't a good replacement for a real philips. I remember a forum member saying that he messed his can opener up after using it a few times..

All IMO, but the OHT is superior option. The ability to open a blade one handed is a must for me.

LOL.  You read too much, LM123.  Have you treid them both?  I have used the say on my OHT, and the saw on a 91MM SAK, and the function in real world application, it is pretty irrelevant.  I mean, what are you planning on cutting down with these, a red wood?  Either one is meant for smaller jobs.  Sure they can handle larger jobs, and both do it fairly equal.
Locking blades?  The fact is, our fathers and grandfathers got along perfectly fine without a lock on their folding knives.  Before slipjoints there were friction folders.  I am not against locking blades, they certainly have their place.  But to suggest that it is the lock that makes them safe is not quite right.  It is US who make them safe, our knowledge of how to use a knife.  I haven't had a lock-less knife close on me since I was a kid, but I have had liner licks give while using them.  The morale there was not to put your trust in a lock, but in your own good judgment.
As for the can opener not being a good phillips head, again, you read it.  Have YOU ever twisted up a can opener driver?  I have, once, yet have used the screw driver on my can opener blade hundreds of times, on hundreds of phillips head screws with much success.  Fact is, I have bent and twisted dedicated screw drivers.  It depends on how hard the screw is screwed in.
Ya gotta try these tools out, LM, and not just read what others say.  Not that they are lying or are wrong, but ANYTHING could have happened when they used said tool.  You yourself have to use the tools and find out for yourself what works.  Like I said, I don't HAVE to read files, or the stories about given knives.  I use them for myself.  If I have never used one, I have no opinion one way or the other.  

I have very little to add here accept that I have chewed up a can opener using it as a phillips and it is no comparision (IMO of course) for the real deal and if I was going to be sawing a lot I'd chose the longer (be it only marginally) saw as it may make hardly any difference, but it will be a benefit.  Comparing the Wave to that other saw is not a fair test at all (as Jzmtl said) as saw types comes into play here.

Oh, and I have actually used saws and drivers myself.  I do read a lot as well though.  

But do you read a lot WHILE using the saw or driver?  That could be bad.

[Buzzbait]

I'll take the saw on the Farmer every time. It may be smaller, but the size difference is negligible from a functional perspective. What really bugs me is the knife blade hump when using the saw on the OHT. That hump digs right into my index finger. Very uncomfortable. I can't imagine having to do a real job with the saw on the OHT.

[Spork, Lord of Lime Jello!]

The difference between the saws is about 3/4". In actual use I haven't noticed much of a difference in performance between the two...especially not enough to warrant the extra bulk of a 111mm in my pocket.

[Mr. Whippy]

RE: Saws.

I've used them a LOT.   More than the blades on most of my MT's, especially around the farm.

Points:

1.  More important than length is stiffness and width of the saw.  Thinner saws (as in narrow blade width across the back, not measured from back to teeth) cut faster PROVIDED they are rigid enough to resist flexing while sawing.  This is on of the nice features of the Leatherman saws. They cut fast because they're thin with aggressive teeth AND the blade doesn't flex.

2.  Tooth pattern is more important than length of saw.  Overly aggressive teeth, or too many small teeth slows cutting, especially of green or soft wood due to jamming (overly aggressive teeth) or filling with debris (too many small teeth).  It's the balance that is important.  Crosscut pattern is much more efficient for most MT's and SAKs than the rare Rip pattern of teeth.

3. Shape of handle can mean a big difference in time spent.  On tools where the handle is below the level of the saw (inside opening saws), finishing the cut is impaired due to fouling between knuckles and surrounding surfaces (rocks, other branches, etc).  Saws that have the handle above the saw teeth (Outside opening saws) allow more force to be applied at the end of a cut.

I can't say that the saw on the OHT is any better or worse than the Farmer's saw, they both seem to work essentially equally.

[LatinoHeat]

I'll take the saw on the Farmer every time. It may be smaller, but the size difference is negligible from a functional perspective. What really bugs me is the knife blade hump when using the saw on the OHT. That hump digs right into my index finger. Very uncomfortable. I can't imagine having to do a real job with the saw on the OHT.

Yeah, it's not a comfortable grip at all.  I don't want anyone to think I DISLIKE the OHT, because I really don't.  Is it my favorite?  No.  However, it is still a cool knife depending on the situation.  I just feel the Farmer is a much better knife.  Comfort, ease of carry, ruggedness, dependability, I would say the Farmer has all these over the OHT.  You just CAN'T beat the Alox line of knives by Vic, and that goes for ANY type of folder from ANY maker.  These are just tough little tanks.

[Benner]

But do you read a lot WHILE using the saw or driver?  That could be bad.

I don't do multi-tasking. 

[ducktapehero]

A knife that is equally at home half buried in sap and mud as it is being slipped into a tux for a wedding .

This is probably my favorite thing about the Farmer(and the rest of the Alox line). It truly is a knife you can take almost anywhere and it doesn't seem out of place.

[Buzzbait]

This is probably my favorite thing about the Farmer(and the rest of the Alox line). It truly is a knife you can take almost anywhere and it doesn't seem out of place.

This is an important point for some of us. Using the same knife, day in and day out, really allows you to learn the nuances of that particular knife. Developing muscle memory for safe opening and closing of the tools. Learning exactly what you can and cannot do with that particular knife. Developing techniques inherent to that particular model. This all adds up to heck of a lot when an emergency comes up, and you have to use the knife while the adrenaline is pumping. Some situations are really not good for using the knife that you handle only occasionally. The Farmer is that knife that you can carry ever day during your normal life, and continue to carry on your adventures.

[yud]

This is probably my favorite thing about the Farmer(and the rest of the Alox line). It truly is a knife you can take almost anywhere and it doesn't seem out of place.

I have always found it odd/amusing that if I were doing something really messy or if I were getting dressed up I would grab the same knife, a alox.

Also if no one else brought it up but the Farmer (and the other aloxs) are really easy to clean.

[silentio]

I have always found it odd/amusing that if I were doing something really messy or if I were getting dressed up I would grab the same knife, a alox.

Also if no one else brought it up but the Framer (and the other aloxs) are really easy to clean.

QFT.

I would usually think it's harder to clean things up when you put the blame on a scapegoat 

[yud]

I have always found it odd/amusing that if I were doing something really messy or if I were getting dressed up I would grab the same knife, a alox.

Also if no one else brought it up but the Framer (and the other aloxs) are really easy to clean.

QFT.

I would usually think it's harder to clean things up when you put the blame on a scapegoat 

That is the problem with spell check it never tells you when you spelled the wrong word

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I have always found it odd/amusing that if I were doing something really messy or if I were getting dressed up I would grab the same knife, a alox.

Also if no one else brought it up but the Farmer (and the other aloxs) are really easy to clean.

QFT.

I would usually think it's harder to clean things up when you put the blame on a scapegoat 

That is the problem with spell check it never tells you when you spelled the wrong word

Original post fixed

[silentio]

I have always found it odd/amusing that if I were doing something really messy or if I were getting dressed up I would grab the same knife, a alox.

Also if no one else brought it up but the Framer (and the other aloxs) are really easy to clean.

QFT.

I would usually think it's harder to clean things up when you put the blame on a scapegoat 

That is the problem with spell check it never tells you when you spelled the wrong word

Don't mind me. I'm just jealous because I don't have one.

I only have one Alox SAK, a Wenger SI. Cut my finger bad when cleaning it, was clumsy and snapped the can opener back with my finger in the way.

[Gareth]

Ouch mate, try not to do that it sounds sore. 

[LatinoHeat]

In a pinch, however, a Framer can do the same job as a Farmer.  Plow fields, milk cows, collect eggs..... the difference is the farmer will take credit for it, he framer will blame someone else.   

[Kampfer]

Allow me to enter my input based on my field experience of a reenacted soldier:

Both have the identical tool set, OHT/ Soldier is superior in some ways, (which others already pointed out) but Farmer is good enough to get the job done.

The main thing I prefer Farmer is that is much smaller and easier to carry in pocket.
I also found OHT uncomfortable to use due to its OHO ring.

[kirk13]

Allow me to enter my input based on my field experience of a reenacted soldier:

Both have the identical tool set, OHT/ Soldier is superior in some ways, (which others already pointed out) but Farmer is good enough to get the job done.

The main thing I prefer Farmer is that is much smaller and easier to carry in pocket.
I also found OHT uncomfortable to use due to its OHO ring.

Wee bit of the old necro there Kampf?

[Kampfer]

Yea I know, didn't want to start a new thread on it.

[kirk13]

Yea I know, didn't want to start a new thread on it.

For what it's worth,I think your exactly right

[Kampfer]

Many good inputs are already in this thread.