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Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution

Ninjaz · 141 · 23712

england Offline DaveK

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #30 on: October 19, 2009, 08:33:32 PM
Use of that word round my way starts fights and yet I'm told that to the south of the country its use is considered only slightly more inflammatory than twit.  :think:  Funny old language :D

It's pretty offensive around these parts. That's why I use it so much.

No other profanity sounds so good when say it slowly (but loudly) emphasising every syllable.

I like to use it to motivate my project team.

I am a potty mouth.

I used to come here a lot.


us Offline jazzbass

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #31 on: October 20, 2009, 05:25:14 AM

I've put a note on the wiki-page asking for someone to confirm the existence of a mechanical timepiece.  Does anyone have more information they can provide?

Perhaps you should ask the person that put that info on the "Timekeeper" wicki page?

According to the history on the page it looks like the user "jazzbass" is the one who put that info down. I believe he uses the same user name on KnifeForums.

Hey - that's me! I put that in and then deleted it. I got that somewhere in vast amounts of internet research, but I now forget where and (more importantly) have been unable to go back and support it with actual info from Victorinox. So forget I wrote that  :-[


us Offline jazzbass

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #32 on: October 20, 2009, 05:28:32 AM
I am working on a page that contains variations of different tools in 91mm Victorionx SAKS:
http://victorinox.saam007.com/91mmtools.php

I already contact some members here for help and some was a great help in getting pictures and information (members: ICanFixThat, Neil, Duder, stressmaster5000, jzmtl and others). We got almost all the pictures needed for the page but I have some trouble refine the dates (missing the wood-saw and backspring phillips but ICanFixThat helps me with it).

Wood-saw - I know of 3 variations.
Backspring phillips - ICanFixThat found 6 variations but they might be more.
Scissros - There are much more variations (older then the first version) will be expanded later on.

The dates in the page based on documents found on the web, other members posts and knowledge.

If anyone can help refine the dates and/or have stuff to add feel free to contact me or post here.

Hey - I think we've emailed back and forth. Your site is greeat, BTW. I've been writing a series of articles regarding on the same topic that I've posted on KnifeForums. Overly long, boring articles that say basically the same thing as your pictures do with a few images.

Anyway, I'm working on the backspring Phillips article and so far have found only 5 variations:

- Square, file, no can-key
- Square, no file, no can-key
- Square, no file, can key
- Round, can-key
- Round, no can-key

What's the 6th one I'm missing?


us Offline stressmaster5000

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #33 on: October 20, 2009, 05:46:51 AM

I've put a note on the wiki-page asking for someone to confirm the existence of a mechanical timepiece.  Does anyone have more information they can provide?

Perhaps you should ask the person that put that info on the "Timekeeper" wicki page?

According to the history on the page it looks like the user "jazzbass" is the one who put that info down. I believe he uses the same user name on KnifeForums.

Hey - that's me! I put that in and then deleted it. I got that somewhere in vast amounts of internet research, but I now forget where and (more importantly) have been unable to go back and support it with actual info from Victorinox. So forget I wrote that  :-[
:ahhh No problem, I have to write notes just to remind myself to write a note!  :ahhh Now, what was I saying?? :think: :think:


Offline Ninjaz

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #34 on: October 20, 2009, 11:39:27 AM
Anyway, I'm working on the backspring Phillips article and so far have found only 5 variations:

- Square, file, no can-key
- Square, no file, no can-key
- Square, no file, can key
- Round, can-key
- Round, no can-key

What's the 6th one I'm missing?

ICanFixIt found:
- Square, file, no can-key (1)
- Square, file, no can-key (2)
- Square, no file, no can-key
- Square, no file, can-key
- Round, can-key
- Round, no can-key

I am going to post images sent to me by ICanFixIt - I hope he won't mind:
Square, file, no can-key 1 & 2:


Here is a picture contains different pictures I got from ICanFixIt:


ICanFixIt still working and researching and I am thank him so much for helping me out :)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 11:43:40 AM by Ninjaz »
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br Offline Santos

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #35 on: October 20, 2009, 02:04:36 PM
i wish they brought back the square philips w/ file

can anyone explain to me why the early corkscrews where grooved not solid or why some philips have the center grooved?

also for us mortals.... whats a can key?
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us Offline bren10man

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #36 on: October 20, 2009, 02:15:49 PM
i wish they brought back the square philips w/ file

can anyone explain to me why the early corkscrews where grooved not solid or why some philips have the center grooved?

also for us mortals.... whats a can key?

A can key is the slot in the Phillips that runs through the tip (see Ninaz's pic #3 above).  Look closely, you can see the slit running throught the Phillips tip.  Many years ago, canned meats (ham, fish, etc.) used a key (and came with the key glued to the top of the can) that you would place on a starter strip surrounding the top of the can.  The end of the can key is like a long hole X-amount long where you insert the starter strip.  You would turn the key, removing the strip little by little, curling it around the can until the lid is seperated, opening the can of [food].  You loose the can key as it is wound with the now spent strip of metal with no way to remove the key.  

The U.S. military used cans similar to store ammunition...aka "spam cans".  No longer done.

So, if you lost the can key, you could use your trusty Vic SAK to open it....and reuse the can key on it...as you would just pull the knife away from the strip, freeing it.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 02:18:13 PM by bren10man »
MOLON LABE!


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #37 on: October 20, 2009, 02:33:55 PM
Here's a pic of the type of meat can it was designed for.



We actually still see some of these in the UK.  The key's notorious for getting lost and leaving you with no way to get in. :-\
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


gb Offline Neil

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #38 on: October 20, 2009, 02:38:02 PM
Here's a pic of the type of meat can it was designed for.

...

We actually still see some of these in the UK.  The key's notorious for getting lost and leaving you with no way to get in. :-\

Considering what lurks beneath, that's not necessarily a bad thing :D
I'm not taking any more mod orders at present, sorry.


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #39 on: October 20, 2009, 02:40:43 PM
Here's a pic of the type of meat can it was designed for.

...

We actually still see some of these in the UK.  The key's notorious for getting lost and leaving you with no way to get in. :-\

Considering what lurks beneath, that's not necessarily a bad thing :D

I can happily go the rest of my life without Spam, but sometimes when the urge gets me nothing else but corned beef will do. :drool:
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


gb Offline Neil

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #40 on: October 20, 2009, 02:47:00 PM
Here's a pic of the type of meat can it was designed for.

...

We actually still see some of these in the UK.  The key's notorious for getting lost and leaving you with no way to get in. :-\

Considering what lurks beneath, that's not necessarily a bad thing :D

I can happily go the rest of my life without Spam, but sometimes when the urge gets me nothing else but corned beef will do. :drool:

eew :(  I bet you put Marmite on it as well  :ahhh
I'm not taking any more mod orders at present, sorry.


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #41 on: October 20, 2009, 02:49:24 PM
Here's a pic of the type of meat can it was designed for.

...

We actually still see some of these in the UK.  The key's notorious for getting lost and leaving you with no way to get in. :-\

Considering what lurks beneath, that's not necessarily a bad thing :D

I can happily go the rest of my life without Spam, but sometimes when the urge gets me nothing else but corned beef will do. :drool:

eew :(  I bet you put Marmite on it as well  :ahhh

I tried that once (I was drunk) not the marvel of modern cookery I was hoping for TBH. :(
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


gb Offline Neil

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #42 on: October 20, 2009, 02:56:42 PM

I tried that once (I was drunk) not the marvel of modern cookery I was hoping for TBH. :(

See its true, two wrongs don't make a right :D
I'm not taking any more mod orders at present, sorry.


us Offline stressmaster5000

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #43 on: October 20, 2009, 03:27:39 PM
Here's a pic of the type of meat can it was designed for.

...

We actually still see some of these in the UK.  The key's notorious for getting lost and leaving you with no way to get in. :-\

Considering what lurks beneath, that's not necessarily a bad thing :D

I can happily go the rest of my life without Spam, but sometimes when the urge gets me nothing else but corned beef will do. :drool:
Ooohhh, me too! But I like Spam as well. Here's me breakfast a couple days ago. Corned beef n eggs!





scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #44 on: October 20, 2009, 03:36:07 PM
Perfect pics mate. :tu:
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


us Offline jazzbass

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #45 on: October 20, 2009, 03:44:24 PM

ICanFixIt found:
- Square, file, no can-key (1)
- Square, file, no can-key (2)
- Square, no file, no can-key
- Square, no file, can-key
- Round, can-key
- Round, no can-key

I am going to post images sent to me by ICanFixIt - I hope he won't mind:
Square, file, no can-key 1 & 2:
(Image removed from quote.)

The asymmetrical tip on #2 is the difference? Huh - I actually have one like that. I saw this, but just chalked it up to either (a) manufacturing tolerances for a part that is machined, not stamped or (b) someone ground down one side for some reason. On mine, the asymmetrical tip is actually the older of the two - maybe ICanFixIt can confirm that this is the case with his as well.

The one with the asymmetrical tip comes from my mid-50s Fisherman. Looking more closely at it, I find I get to add yet another variant to the mix  :D:



Note the double grind pattern on the file. On newer ones like my 60s Champion, there is only one grind to the teeth - perpendicular to the body of the Phillips. On this older Phillips, there are two grind to make the teeth, similar to how the pre-1992 metal files were ground. One grind is perpendicular to the Phillips, the second is at about a 60 degree angle. You can see some of the 60 degree grind on the tip of the driver itself.


us Offline stressmaster5000

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #46 on: October 20, 2009, 03:52:15 PM
Perfect pics mate. :tu:
I find the small can key they provide digs into my thumbs while in use. However the can-key slot on my SAK makes short work of the job and provides better leverage for turning especially at the end when you need to "break it off".


us Offline NutSAK

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #47 on: October 20, 2009, 04:40:52 PM
I had one of those with the asymmetrical tips once.  It didn't work worth a poop on most the screws I tried it on.  :(
- Terry


Offline Ninjaz

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #48 on: October 20, 2009, 04:42:44 PM
 :ahhh  :ahhh so many back spring phillips and I only have two variations  :ahhh  :ahhh
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Offline Ninjaz

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #49 on: October 21, 2009, 12:17:59 AM
Anyone own a Vic SAK with Multipurpose Hook and fluted/grooved corkscrew ?
if not maybe Scissors with rivet joint and fluted/grooved corkscrew ?
[


us Offline stressmaster5000

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #50 on: October 21, 2009, 12:40:35 AM
Anyone own a Vic SAK with Multipurpose Hook and fluted/grooved corkscrew ?
if not maybe Scissors with rivet joint and fluted/grooved corkscrew ?
What do I win if I do?  :D


gb Offline Neil

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #51 on: October 21, 2009, 12:47:12 AM
Anyone own a Vic SAK with Multipurpose Hook and fluted/grooved corkscrew ?
if not maybe Scissors with rivet joint and fluted/grooved corkscrew ?
What do I win if I do?  :D

Mike comes round and does a "special" dance for you  >:D

I have a Champion with hook and fluted corkscrew.  Might have other knives but that's the only one that comes to mind.
I'm not taking any more mod orders at present, sorry.


us Offline jazzbass

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #52 on: October 21, 2009, 01:00:16 AM
Anyone own a Vic SAK with Multipurpose Hook and fluted/grooved corkscrew ?
if not maybe Scissors with rivet joint and fluted/grooved corkscrew ?
Check out my Tools post on KnifeForums/SOSAK. Under the scissors post, I show my Deluxe Climber with hook, grooved corkscrew and scissors with screw & guide slot.



scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #53 on: October 21, 2009, 01:26:04 AM
Anyone own a Vic SAK with Multipurpose Hook and fluted/grooved corkscrew ?
if not maybe Scissors with rivet joint and fluted/grooved corkscrew ?
Check out my Tools post on KnifeForums/SOSAK. Under the scissors post, I show my Deluxe Climber with hook, grooved corkscrew and scissors with screw & guide slot.



That's certainly one mixed up SAK. :)
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


us Offline jazzbass

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #54 on: October 21, 2009, 03:21:03 AM
That's certainly one mixed up SAK. :)
No kidding. It's an odd but interesting knife. Not the least of the issues are that no one knows what to call it or has a picture of it in a catalog. The Deluxe Climber name I got from SmartKnives, which is as good a guess as any really.

Here's a pic showing the grooved corkscrew, hook, and screw-joint scissors. Since I got this knife, I've gotten several others that have the hook/scissors screw combination including an Deluxe Tinker, Explorer, Climber and a Ranger. All of them have the guide groove in the scissors. The Deluxe Climber however, shown here, is the only one of these with a fully grooved corkscrew.



Offline Ninjaz

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #55 on: October 21, 2009, 09:01:14 AM
Thanks people.
I just want to make sure the info I got is right:
Crockscrew groved droped in 1994 and not 1991 as I thought.
I also think the Scissors rivet replaced the Scossors screw in 1992  but according to the documents it says 1991.
Hook is still 1991.
[


us Offline jazzbass

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #56 on: October 21, 2009, 04:42:27 PM
Thanks people.
I just want to make sure the info I got is right:
Crockscrew groved droped in 1994 and not 1991 as I thought.
I also think the Scissors rivet replaced the Scossors screw in 1992  but according to the documents it says 1991.
Hook is still 1991.


The corkscrew groove thing is interesting. I have the same Victorinox document where I think you're getting the 1994 date from. The interesting thing is, in that same document, they also say the groove was dropped in 1991.  ???

The knives I have support a 1991 date vs 1994. I agree with the 1991/2 as the transition date for scissors screw and hook. I typically think 1991 for the hook, 1992 for the rivet. In this case, I have 4 corkscrew knives that can be dated in that 1991/2 time frame due to their combo of hook + scissors with screws. Of these, 3 of 4 have smooth corkscrews. Only the Deluxe Climber above has the full groove, which is probably due to left over inventory.

That said, I have a theory about the 1994 date that I'm writing up for my next tools article, which will be on corkscrews. I picked up a 5 turn from eBay a week or so ago, and I'm just waiting for that to come in for pics before I post. My next article was going to be about the Phillips, but that was when I thought there was only 4 versions. Now we're at 7, so I need to do a bit more research.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 04:45:19 PM by jazzbass »


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #57 on: October 21, 2009, 05:40:59 PM
Sounds interesting Jazzbass. :)
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


Offline Ninjaz

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #58 on: October 21, 2009, 07:08:28 PM
 :ahhh So confusing...
My document says just 1994 not both.
I think in the new edition of "Collector's Companion" it says 1994 - anyone can check ?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 07:24:37 PM by Ninjaz »
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00 Offline Bill.H

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Re: Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution
Reply #59 on: October 22, 2009, 03:50:42 AM
I think in the new edition of "Collector's Companion" it says 1994 - anyone can check ?

on page 115 it says     "1991     Corkscrew without decoration groove"

That's for the "Officer's Knife", but it should be the same for all.


 

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