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Hubs vs deraliers!

gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Hubs vs deraliers!
on: May 19, 2007, 11:42:16 AM
Hi guys got a debate for you whats best hub gears or derailers?

I,ve had both, but now my mad racing days are behind me, i find i really appreciate the simplicity, reliability and cleanliness of my sturmney archer hub gear :)

now I know most of the theoretical advantages of both systems, but which do you guys prefere and why?

cheers
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us Offline J-sews

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #1 on: May 19, 2007, 12:33:03 PM
Hi guys got a debate for you whats best hub gears or derailers?

I,ve had both, but now my mad racing days are behind me, i find i really appreciate the simplicity, reliability and cleanliness of my sturmney archer hub gear :)

now I know most of the theoretical advantages of both systems, but which do you guys prefere and why?

cheers

Uh...and please add a brief description of the two systems, so mental lightweights like myself know what we're talking about!  (What's a hub gear?)  :P
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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #2 on: May 19, 2007, 12:59:46 PM
Hi guys got a debate for you whats best hub gears or derailers?

I,ve had both, but now my mad racing days are behind me, i find i really appreciate the simplicity, reliability and cleanliness of my sturmney archer hub gear :)

now I know most of the theoretical advantages of both systems, but which do you guys prefere and why?

cheers

Uh...and please add a brief description of the two systems, so mental lightweights like myself know what we're talking about!  (What's a hub gear?)  :P
give me an hour and i,ll find some links mate :)
Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #3 on: May 19, 2007, 02:01:26 PM
Ok in essence a hub gear has all it gears inside the hub (anywhere between 2 and 14) heres a link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hub_gear

where as derailleur  has all it gears externally and typically more of them.

link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derailleur_gears

hope this helps, ;)
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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #4 on: May 19, 2007, 02:01:54 PM
All hail wikipedia :grin:
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #5 on: May 19, 2007, 02:23:31 PM
I've only ever used derailleurs before, but my guess would be that they'd be easier to maintain and fix at the side of the road.  I like simplicity.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #6 on: May 19, 2007, 02:57:16 PM
I've only ever used derailleurs before, but my guess would be that they'd be easier to maintain and fix at the side of the road.  I like simplicity.

Def
yeah there is that, but... derailleurs are more fragile in the first place, but i do agree that you can bodge a derailluer system to get you home, where as  if a hub gear went (very unlikely!) it would make life difficult to say the least to get going again.
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #7 on: May 19, 2007, 03:27:34 PM
I know you can mess up a derailleur pretty good- my bike rode me home a few times because of it!

But I just like to have access to the messups... I'd hate to think of what happened if a small stone got in there.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #8 on: May 19, 2007, 03:32:21 PM
I know you can mess up a derailleur pretty good- my bike rode me home a few times because of it!

But I just like to have access to the messups... I'd hate to think of what happened if a small stone got in there.

Def
Well generally speaking hub gears are sealed units so nothing should get in there.

but i take your point about derailleur, being accessable!
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #9 on: May 19, 2007, 03:41:57 PM
Yeah, I guess...  but I am hard on things, which is why I like SAKs, good quality tools and easily fixed components!

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #10 on: May 19, 2007, 03:52:42 PM
Yeah, I guess...  but I am hard on things, which is why I like SAKs, good quality tools and easily fixed components!

Def
well i only weight 11 and a half stone so i,m  not hard on anything :grin:
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #11 on: May 19, 2007, 04:04:58 PM
For those who are conversionally challenged, that's about 160 lbs!

Even when I was that light and lighter I was hard on things.  I don't mean to be, it's just something I have learned to deal with.  Things break around me...

It works out in the long run- whenever anything breaks I usually repair it about ten times stronger than it was originally.  That's the benefit of being the son of a Combat Engineer.  It don't have to be pretty, but it's gotta support a tank and it's gotta be ready in six minutes....

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #12 on: May 19, 2007, 05:03:05 PM
  It don't have to be pretty, but it's gotta support a tank and it's gotta be ready in six minutes....

Def
not a bad motto to live by!

most of the stuff i own is massivley engineered anyway, i,ll gladly trade some sophistication for something that will not break!

even if you do end up paying for that approach some times!

ps i bet your dads got some cracking stories :)
Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #13 on: May 19, 2007, 05:15:02 PM
Yeah...  it's amazing what those guys can build with no resources, and half the time doing it under fire! 

Given similar numbers, and restricting to conventional weapons, I firmly believed the Soviets, Chinese etc would win a war against the US simply because the AK-47 would fire not matter what...  sure it wasn't overly accurate but they'd have time to fire off a few shots while the Yanks tried to unjam the M-16's!

My father has some stories, but either not many or he doesn't share them much.  He eventually remustered to the Air Force and spent 30 years in Admin flying a desk.  He retired about 10 years ago to a small cottage in the backwoods of Ontario where he spends his days fiddling with boats, ATV's, computers, fixing up the house and garage etc.  This time next month I'll be up there too helping him build a shed, cut some trees, and whatever else needs to be done. 

But I guess that's a little off topic! :D

Back to the original question, while I wouldn't mind playing with a hub, I think I am firmly entrenched in the derilleur camp!

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #14 on: May 19, 2007, 05:20:26 PM
Yeah...  it's amazing what those guys can build with no resources, and half the time doing it under fire! 

Given similar numbers, and restricting to conventional weapons, I firmly believed the Soviets, Chinese etc would win a war against the US simply because the AK-47 would fire not matter what...  sure it wasn't overly accurate but they'd have time to fire off a few shots while the Yanks tried to unjam the M-16's!

My father has some stories, but either not many or he doesn't share them much.  He eventually remustered to the Air Force and spent 30 years in Admin flying a desk.  He retired about 10 years ago to a small cottage in the backwoods of Ontario where he spends his days fiddling with boats, ATV's, computers, fixing up the house and garage etc.  This time next month I'll be up there too helping him build a shed, cut some trees, and whatever else needs to be done. 

But I guess that's a little off topic! :D

Back to the original question, while I wouldn't mind playing with a hub, I think I am firmly entrenched in the derilleur camp!

Def
well if were nailing our flag to the masts, i,ll go with hubs! :)
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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #15 on: May 19, 2007, 05:24:36 PM
as for the possible war between east and west, its a very tough one to call, i tend to think in the 40,s the reds would have won same in the 60, and 70,s but the 50,s and 80, the west would have won, as for the 90, well i,m not at all sure who would have won , but we,d all lose really in the end.

phew back on topic! :grin:
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #16 on: May 19, 2007, 05:40:00 PM
I agree, but based on similar numbers of troops and using only good old fashioned handheld weapons, the rate of successful fire from the AK series is significantly higher than the comparable US manufactured weapons.  And given the much larger banana clip on the AK's, accuracy isn't such a big issue!

Now if I could get an AK with a derailleur... :P

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #17 on: May 19, 2007, 05:41:51 PM
I agree, but based on similar numbers of troops and using only good old fashioned handheld weapons, the rate of successful fire from the AK series is significantly higher than the comparable US manufactured weapons.  And given the much larger banana clip on the AK's, accuracy isn't such a big issue!

Now if I could get an AK with a derailleur... :P

Def
or a swiss made AK  :)
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #18 on: May 19, 2007, 05:57:55 PM
Hmmmm... an AK with a corkscrew.... that sounds pretty cool!   :grin:

Def
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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #19 on: May 19, 2007, 06:19:35 PM
Hmmmm... an AK with a corkscrew.... that sounds pretty cool!   :grin:

Def
ya don,t need a corkscrew!

smirnoff comes in twist caps :grin:
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #20 on: May 19, 2007, 06:24:33 PM
Derailleur with a shot glass and icemaker then?   >:D

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline J-sews

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #21 on: May 19, 2007, 07:47:15 PM
Hmmph. I've never even seen a hub gear on a bike before. Guess I'll have to start paying attention more.
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


Offline I'm Still Bison

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #22 on: May 19, 2007, 08:51:03 PM
Well time to chime in...I'll take  a Swiss made FN-FAL,that's the model with corkscrew and T&T slots ;)
  If most of my riding was in a larger city,with lots of stops,I'd take a hub hands down.With the derailleurs,I'll take trigger shifters over anything else.
Sturmey-Archer ,the king of internal hubs!
I


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #23 on: May 19, 2007, 09:01:57 PM
Hmmph. I've never even seen a hub gear on a bike before. Guess I'll have to start paying attention more.
you boy! pay attention in class :grin:
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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #24 on: May 19, 2007, 09:06:15 PM
  If most of my riding was in a larger city,with lots of stops,I'd take a hub hands down.With the derailleurs,I'll take trigger shifters over anything else.
Sturmey-Archer ,the king of internal hubs!
Can,t argue with that! most of my riding is in town so the hub gear is a real boon to me, plus in the last few years theres been a real boom in hub gear development, whereas deralleurs have kinda peaked development wise, yes they get lighter and smoother, but there basically remained the same for a loooong time now.
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Offline I'm Still Bison

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #25 on: May 19, 2007, 09:17:45 PM
 The big impetus for more development is in place right now; aging boomers are riding in bigger numbers aren't all that interested in riding centuries,and generally want things simplified.
I


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #26 on: May 19, 2007, 09:58:05 PM
The big impetus for more development is in place right now; aging boomers are riding in bigger numbers aren't all that interested in riding centuries,and generally want things simplified.
long may it continue!

before i bought my last bike i test rode loadsof bikes, and all the current mush have bikes have got stupidly high gearing!

now i,m only 30 and reasonably fit but i,ve also got a duff left foot from a motorcycle accident so i need fairly low gearing otherwise my foot playes up something chronic, that,s why i got into hub gears so that aside from the reliability you only have to put a bigger sprocket on the rear to lower the gearing to cope with all the hills round as well as my foot.

you boomers keep hassling the bike designers over there :cheers: :grin:
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #27 on: May 19, 2007, 10:11:04 PM
Seems to be alot of that left foot stuff going around!  Mine is held together with a steel plate and 8 screws.

Which, btw, are Robertson screws!  :P

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #28 on: May 20, 2007, 08:00:31 AM
And for all of you that think the hub/derailleur thing is confusing..Bianchi takes things further with a hybrid of sorts in their Bergamo model which has a hub AND derailleur sytem...this blurb is from their website:
  What’s the sound of one hand shifting? Find out for yourself on the Bergamo, a stylish commuter with the unique SRAM DualDrive single-sided shifting system. The Bergamo gives you simpler, more intuitive command of its 21 gears, thanks to DualDrive’s fusion of a self-energized internal 3-speed rear hub with a traditional 7-speed rear derailleur. Not only is the smooth shifting all controllable with your right hand, but you can shift gears while standing still or coasting. There’s a lot more to the Bergamo, including a light aluminum frame and purposeful commute-friendly amenities. It’s original design, in motion
I


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Hubs vs deraliers!
Reply #29 on: May 20, 2007, 11:45:53 AM
Seems to be alot of that left foot stuff going around!  Mine is held together with a steel plate and 8 screws.

Which, btw, are Robertson screws!  :P

Def

no one understands our pain! :cry: :grin:
Give in, buy several Farmer's!!!!!!


 

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