In the post apocolyptic world

[CQC-7]

I was just thinking if there was a very traumatic world event such as an asteroid, comet, nuclear war, and you survived, what gear would you take with you to survive.  Perhaps you would want to be one who tries to rebuild society, hunt and gather to survive, etc...  What would be absolutely essential.  There would be no large supply of fossil fuels so traveling by car would be out of the question.  All gear would be carried in a backpack, on horesback, etc...

For example I would take.

A horse or mule to carry stuff including me.

Medicines and medical supplies, including tums, asprin, tylenol, prilosec, vitamin supplements, bandages, tape, and the like.

Tools.  Obviously a few multitools and SAKs, Folding knives, a large fixed blade or two.  A tomahawk.  A hammer. and a few screwdrivers and wrenches and a spade.  I'd also need a stone for sharpening.  Perhaps a few extra tools for trade goods.

Guns.  At least 1 12 gauge shotgun for obvious reasons hunting, defense.  One centerfire rifle (30-06) for hunting and engaging possible threats at long range.  One rimfire rifle for small game hunting and you can carry a lot of ammo in a small space.  A ruger .22 pistol also for hunting small game.  A Glock 21 .45ACP for defense if needed.  My decisions are based on availability and the fact that ammunition could be easily found and/or scrounged for easily since the firearms mentioned are in popular calibers.

Rope.

Duct tape.

fishing line and hooks.

Small supply of canned food, as much as I can carry.  Perhaps a bag of flour.  A bag of salt would also be nice.  A bottle of oil.

Small metal cups and pots for water purification and cooking.

Water purification tablets and a water jug or bottle.

Matches.

manually recharging flashlight.

hand crank radio.
 
This is my gear list, whats in your bag!

[Grant Lamontagne]

Mankind roamed for thousands of years, but it was only after putting down roots that civilization flourished.  I would start piling my rocks, and invite people to join me.  There's strength in numbers and as current society has proven, we can move rivers if we all work together.

A nice walled city would be up in a few months time, and folks would manage just fine I think....

Def

[CQC-7]

I think that you are right.  However, youd probally have to wander to gather people at least for a few days unless you live in town and a lot of people survived.  I like the walled city idea.  It makes a lot of sense unless a roaming band of bandits laid seige to your walled city.  It then becomes a large jail.  However, with enough supplies and counter seige artillery you could make a good stand.  You could catapult cheap multitools at the masses with great effectivness.  Chineese made goods may save us all in the end.

[Grant Lamontagne]

"If you build it, they will come..."

Start piling rocks and wanderers will find you.  At least that's my take on it.  It might be different if I found myself in that situation, but better to have a shelter so you don't have to sleep with one eye open.

As for personal defense, that's what we'd all have house wolves for.  Sure, roving bandits may be able to defeat me and my dogs, but it would cost them too much to be worth their while!  My house wolf may be friendly enough, but I've seen those teeth in action, and I sure as heck wouldn't want to go against them!

Def

[Raukodur]

hehe want to see teeth in action check out the hyena, twice as big as most dogs, and teeth that can crush through bone.

Only problem is, I have the unnerving feeling that hyenas wouldnt be too faithful, I dunno why, maybe that has no basis whatsoever, I'd be terrified itd just bite my leg off for a laugh 

[Grant Lamontagne]

Hyenas are actually members of the cat family, and I certainly wouldn't sleep peacefully with a pack of them around!

And as for teeth action, my last dog, Pete, was a dogo argentino.  These dogs were fast, powerful, intelligent and impervious to harm.  I used to watch as he'd crush cow leg bones we'd get him from the butcher shops.  If you want to see what one of these things can do, there are a number of videos on Youtube of these things hunting, but I suggest that you DO NOT check it out if you are squeamish.

Fast as a greyhound, tough as a pitbull, strong as a mastiff and friendly as a lab, they are the perfect dog.  Pete never hurt another animal in his life.  Well, except bugs.  he liked to eat those, but I was ok with that!  He would actually play with cats and other small animals, more curious than anything else.  But watching him crush those giant beef bones... and seeing what looked like pink tennis balls in his cheeks when he panted would make anyon ethink twice about being on his bad side... if indeed he had one!

That's a drawing of a dogo in my avatar.  The picture below is him with my house wolf, Chinook.

Def

[Raukodur]

Are you sure hyenas are part of the cat family Def? I remember having watched several nature documentaries which have always placed them in the dog family 

[Grant Lamontagne]

My mistake.  According to Wikipedia:

Although hyenas bear some physical resemblance to dogs, they make up a separate biological family which is most closely related to Herpestidae (the family of mongooses and meerkats).

Looks like we are both wrong!

Def

[J-sews]

Herpestidae? (herpes today?)

There's gotta be a sick joke in there somewhere...

[Thargor]

I would pay any amount of money for a wolf like yours Def, got a few years of college ahead of me yet though

[Grant Lamontagne]

He's not actually a wolf, I just call him the "house wolf" because he looks very lupine and is always underfoot!

He is, as good as we can guess because he's a rescue dog, a full blooded Siberian Husky from a working dog line rather than show dog or breeding line.  He's bigger than the breed standard (about two inches at the withers, and about four inches longer nose to tail and about ten pounds heavier) and he actually does have a third outer coat made of longer fur.  I thought he might be part Alaskan Malamute because of his extra size and weight, but I'm reasonably certain that if that was the case, he'd be significantly bigger than he is.

He's wild like a husky though- always up for play, running or a hunt.  At nine years old he's in better shape than most three or four year old dogs and even my vet has a hard time believing he's that old!  He also howls and woo's, which are typical husky traits.  One of these days I'll post some video of him on YouTube for everyone.

And, when you are ready, don't pay alot of money for a dog like this.  Huskies are one of the breeds most often found in animal shelters, and are also one of the highest euthanized in those facilities as well.  They take alot of work and aren't the kind of dog you can take to a park and play fetch with.  They will play with other dogs, but given the chance they will dig under fences, tangle and chew leads and in all cases, they will run like hell and you'll never catch them.

And heaven help you if you have other pets in the house that aren't dogs.  Huskies observe only two categories in nature- dogs and food.  Fish aren't safe, cats aren't safe, birds aren't safe, Hamsters are great snacks... You'd be amazed what a properly motivated Siberian can get into....

Great dogs, but be prepared to change your whole life to accommodate one!  It's worth it, but be warned!

Def

[Anthony]

To survive in a city of crazies (90% of people will freak without phones/internet/tv/information...and they'll loot stores/homes and kill/take from anyone who might have some food or supplies).  Staying unnoticed is the key I'd think...

I read a great article about becoming homeless and how to survive, apparently written by a homeless guy who 'made it out' and didn't give up.  Some great urban survival stuff.

http://www.donrearic.com/homeless.htm

[Grant Lamontagne]

That's why I'd put up walls...  BIG walls... and big dogs.  They don't call me "Defender" for nothing!  I would entrench myself in a secure shelter then start building.  If anyone comes along and wants to contribute, then we'll built the walls big enough for them too.  If not, it will take a hell of an army to get into my house!

Def

[CQC-7]

Dogs?  I guess if there were no rules/laws regarding ownership I'd get a
"battle Hippo."  I would not want to stand face to face with an angry Hippo.  As for attack dogs, I had a basset hound that nearly tore an unwelcome a new %$#hole.  It was hilarius.  One of my brothers friends staggered in to my mothers house when I and my brother still lived there.  Apparently his girlfriend kicked him out after seeing him in a drunken stupor.  I was awake early and eating breakfast when I heard the door open.  It was too early for my mother to come home from work yet. Gladys my basset hound moved into the hallway to investigate the door.  By the time that I got up she was "charging" the intruder.  The screams from that kid were hilarius.  "call her off call her off." he said.  I did not call her off.  I said get em'.  She had a pretty good hold on him when I called her off.  I told that kid to never enter without knocking again that next time he may get a bang instead of a growl.  Next time he got kicked out by his girlfriend he called first.  

[Tarrodemierda]

this was and is intresting topic to me,shame that it seems dead.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Feel free to open it up again!  I'm always happy to revisit old threads!

What would you do in this situation?

Def

[Tarrodemierda]

well i would start my diesel generator,connect it to the vhs player i found from some scrapyard,and watch a copy of mad max as start.and later toninght ill post more,since i gotta head out to sauna now,my babe yells there.

[Rodion]

^ You know what they say... PIX OR U LIVE WITH UR MUM!1! 

Anyway, it's indeed an interesting topic. I'm delighted that the issue of dogs came up so quickly: usually people just drop the last 100000 years of culture in favor of a mad pre-apocalyptic shopping spree. When push comes to shove, I would trade my go pack and water stockpile for a good quality hound. When I'm through with college, I am so getting one. Besides the myriad ways having a loyal dog ups your chances, you could shave a healthy profit (or just earn a few favors) by allowing people to have your dog impregnate theirs. Or you could sell your bitches' pups. As you can see, I am not a big advocate of neutering. 

Another thing people tend to forget is boots and clothes. If you've ever traveled through dense vegetation, you know the value of an empty potato bag on your shoulders.

I agree with Def in that getting some sort of grid back up is paramount, but your location, whatever it is at the time, may turn out less than ideal for a permanent and self-sufficient commune. In that case, you will want the ability to travel to the nearest well/arable field/fruit plantation/mine. Fast, because the longer you're on the road, the more Super Mutant Death Squads you will encounter.

On that note, I hope and, well, just hope, that they loosen up the local gun laws. Without guns, the strong will simply eat the weak when food runs out. With guns, there's going to be a dialogue and possibly brainstorming.

[DaveK]

Besides the myriad ways having a loyal dog ups your chances, you could shave a healthy profit (or just earn a few favors) by allowing people to have your dog impregnate theirs. Or you could sell your bitches' pups.

..... and you could eat it too, if food became scarce 

[Rodion]

That's what girlfriends are for. 

[DaveK]

lol

[Tarrodemierda]

rodeon is that enough of her?

well u said it,i never thought of the k9-factor but indeed a god,strong dog would be grat adventage,theyre good for protection and give bit warm in cold night etc.but on the other hand u then have to feed two mouths,and the other has to get meat.that would require more job,and you would have to equip the hound with some backpack too.i believe the men will found tribes again if this apocalypse happens,since theyre much stronger,like wolves hunting in a pack.and that vould also create class & tribewars evidently.only the strong would survive, i think the brain-people would suffer lack of power since they wouldnt have maybe the muscles to build shelter,fight battles,and some super nerds will die in no time;).

you would propably start to appreciate horses and bicycles again,i think.the gas would end soon,and those who could keep it in safe and trade it visely,would be ruling class.and i think it would be a rise-up to handcraft people,which i see as a good thing.old cars from barns would be useful and appreciated,not those s--tbucket with easy breaking electronic nonsense gadgets.hmm ill post more of my thought later again,now back to the heat.

[Rodion]

She needs to be holding your Surge or something. 

I think if keeping a dog would be more trouble than it's worth, there'd be no need to domesticate wolves in the first place. In fact, ancient humans wouldn't keep dogs unless that need was dire. I'm also not sure about the correlation between "smartness" and a lack of power. I know plenty of highly intelligent individuals, each of whom could rip a dog in half. 

[Poncho65]

"If you build it, they will come..."

Start piling rocks and wanderers will find you.  At least that's my take on it.  It might be different if I found myself in that situation, but better to have a shelter so you don't have to sleep with one eye open.

As for personal defense, that's what we'd all have house wolves for.  Sure, roving bandits may be able to defeat me and my dogs, but it would cost them too much to be worth their while!  My house wolf may be friendly enough, but I've seen those teeth in action, and I sure as heck wouldn't want to go against them!

Def

Hey Def you could use me in your society I'd just have to find out your locale and get there.  You could use a mason to put up your rock wall faster I could work out my food and supplies while others gathered or farmed Depending on how many ppl survived one could feasibly have a medieval style town with wall built in a few months depending on how much material was on hand.   Plus I have a smaller half cur dog he weighs 30 or 40 pounds that is very smart he doesn't eat much and he is easily trained

[BIG-TARGET]

Now if we we were in a "Will Smith situation"(i.e.I Am Legend), you can almost freeboot at will.

[Tarrodemierda]

cant believe they took the pic off.

[duckman1975]

First I need a well built shelter thats very strong and defend able, poured concrete structure would be nice, peremeter fences with good soil inside the fence with water source a well would be good. Weapons and about a gazzilion pack of MRE which I thing could be traded

[kent ct]

Humans are social animals and to survive there would need to be a return to feudalism. Strong leaders would attract a number of followers all pledging allegiance to that leader in return for the protection that leader could give. There would be room for the warrior and the nerd since all talents contribute to the overall strength of the group. Depending on the wisdom of the leader and the skill of his lieutenants the group would prosper or fail in the face of superior forces. Countries would be fragmented into a series of areas governed by warlords. Eventually larger and larger groups would coalesce and in time evolve into governments not unlike what we have now.

Richard 

[Grant Lamontagne]

"If you build it, they will come..."

Start piling rocks and wanderers will find you.  At least that's my take on it.  It might be different if I found myself in that situation, but better to have a shelter so you don't have to sleep with one eye open.

As for personal defense, that's what we'd all have house wolves for.  Sure, roving bandits may be able to defeat me and my dogs, but it would cost them too much to be worth their while!  My house wolf may be friendly enough, but I've seen those teeth in action, and I sure as heck wouldn't want to go against them!

Def

Hey Def you could use me in your society I'd just have to find out your locale and get there.  You could use a mason to put up your rock wall faster I could work out my food and supplies while others gathered or farmed Depending on how many ppl survived one could feasibly have a medieval style town with wall built in a few months depending on how much material was on hand.   Plus I have a smaller half cur dog he weighs 30 or 40 pounds that is very smart he doesn't eat much and he is easily trained

A mason would be a handy thing to have- as would anyone willing to work and/or share a specialty!  No one person is good at everything, but together, a number of people could become virtually invulnerable, simply because of overlapping specialties.  Even if someone doesn't have a specific specialty, many hands make for light work, and so anyone willing to contribute would be more than welcome in my walled city.

Firearms would be useful, don't get me wrong, but the problem would be that ammunition would become very limited.  Guns are the first thing everyone would be going for, and ammunition would be in short supply with no organized corporations manufacturing or distributing them.  General Custer realized that when there are more attackers than bullets (or capacity to fire those bullets) superior firepower is little more than a hollow threat.  More renewable methods of defense and hunting (like bows) would make a lot more sense.  Of course, if I had access to a stockpile of weapons and ammo, I wouldn't complain either!

Def

[Tarrodemierda]

Humans are social animals and to survive there would need to be a return to feudalism. Strong leaders would attract a number of followers all pledging allegiance to that leader in return for the protection that leader could give. There would be room for the warrior and the nerd since all talents contribute to the overall strength of the group. Depending on the wisdom of the leader and the skill of his lieutenants the group would prosper or fail in the face of superior forces. Countries would be fragmented into a series of areas governed by warlords. Eventually larger and larger groups would coalesce and in time evolve into governments not unlike what we have now.

Richard 

i must agree.i couldnt say what i meant in english so well.
but i surely wouldnt want that it go on and evolve again into system we already have.id rather live in much more free world with out official borders and boundries,even if it would mean much more simplified and harder life.a world without politics(ofcourse there would be at some point some kinda politics,but not like we now have)lieing and cheating.i hope that it would me more like real democracy,since in world like that those who would like to be leaders,they should really listen and act as how the public wants,or theyd be thrown away from power much more easier than now when heres laws and those vampires called lawyers making up new rules to protect allways the elite part of the population.