84mm Combi tool changes

[Gareth]

As some of you know I rather like the Combi tool, it was on my first proper SAK (a Waiter) and it has stayed a favourite ever since.  Most folks who like to look at the development of Victorinox's tools will be familiar with the original shape of the Combi tool and what it looks like now, however I have found what appears to be a distinct and identifiable middle stage of development.  So on to the first Combi tool:

The most striking feature of this is the bulbous tip of the tool (oh-er ) but there are other things that make this notably different to the modern tool.  Firstly the 'hook' that catches on the underside of the bottle cap or can is really quite pointy and sharp.  Also the top edge by the nail nick is very angular in shape, not the smooth curve we will see later.  The last thing is something we can't see, it has not got a half stop when opening and closing.  This seems to have been in use between 1982/3 and 1986.



Moving on to what I think is a middle stage of development.  It retains the sharp hook and the angular top edge but the screwdriver tip has changed into the form we can see on the modern tool.  Also it has now got a half stop.  As this is on a Waiter that has a fluted corkscrew than the likely dates would seem to be 1986-1991 but I will be the first to admit that's just an educated guess.



So what we have here is a modern tool on a Waiter that is about 5 years old.  The tip of the hook is now far more rounded and we can see that the top edge has now become a far smoother arc rather than the angular shape we've seen in the previous two pictures, it also retains the half stop.


OK so the changes between 2 and 3 are pretty much cosmetic but I think they are different enough that it is more than just a case of one being polished more than the other, all my other modern Combi tools have the same look as number 3.  Has anyone else got an example of the intermediate stage or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks for reading.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Can't help you mate, but fine idea for a thread

[yud]

I have a waiter with the middle Combo with a non-fluted corkscrew

hope that helps


Edit: sorry it seem to be the frist Combo tool

[J-sews]

Hmmm, very interesting. Hopefully someone more knowledgable than me will be by shortly with their thoughts.

[ICanFixThat]

Based on your pictures I think you have definetly identified 3 different versions.  I know when we were looking at tool differences for SAMM's page and other peoples requests we often found small changes like those shown between v2 & 3.  I think the most recent one was the variations in the small Clip-Point, but even the relatively recent mini-screwdriver seems to have several small changes not including its more functional handle hex shape.  Nowhere near all these changes could be recorded with any accuracy as I'm sure they probably had plenty of each variety while they were building tools, and then probably released some from their stock piles and the warranty repairs got less for certain models.  I think that is why we can occasionally see a fluted corkscrew on a knife where time wise it just does nto fit.

I'll take a look at my Combo tools again as I have time, when you compare combo tools are you always looking at 84mm? Near as I can tell the 91mm and 84mm tools are the same tools with thie pivot hole set accordingly.  The thickness might vary as well at the Tang, but I have to check that again.

I know in the past there was some talk about the offset angle of the tip changing on the tools, but I could not conclusively confirm that at the time.  I think it was related to 91mm Combo tools, but are there really any differences?

[Neil]

Well spotted Gareth.       Aside from a handful of users all my SAKs are put away at the moment to force me to do some work so I can't really be of assistance 

[Gareth]

Based on your pictures I think you have definetly identified 3 different versions.  I know when we were looking at tool differences for SAMM's page and other peoples requests we often found small changes like those shown between v2 & 3.  I think the most recent one was the variations in the small Clip-Point, but even the relatively recent mini-screwdriver seems to have several small changes not including its more functional handle hex shape.  Nowhere near all these changes could be recorded with any accuracy as I'm sure they probably had plenty of each variety while they were building tools, and then probably released some from their stock piles and the warranty repairs got less for certain models.  I think that is why we can occasionally see a fluted corkscrew on a knife where time wise it just does nto fit.

I'll take a look at my Combo tools again as I have time, when you compare combo tools are you always looking at 84mm? Near as I can tell the 91mm and 84mm tools are the same tools with thie pivot hole set accordingly.  The thickness might vary as well at the Tang, but I have to check that again.

I know in the past there was some talk about the offset angle of the tip changing on the tools, but I could not conclusively confirm that at the time.  I think it was related to 91mm Combo tools, but are there really any differences?

Thanks mate.  I've just been looking at 84mm Combi's for this.  The only older 91mm Combi I have is on a 91mm Golfer (or pre-parcel hook Compact if you prefer), and it is pretty much the same as the No3.  

Having stuffed a 84mm Combi into a 91mm SAK I can tell you that the 'kick' isn't the same, the 84mm ends up sitting lower down in the SAK so the nail nick is only just accessible.  I also get the feeling that the tang is fractionally slimmer as well but I don't have any callipers to do a proper check.

[Ninjaz]

Nice spotted (scpecial the second one).
I spotted that change between the first and the last few weeks ago when friend of mine got an old lamberjack with the first combo tool. I was going to look in to it but time is quite a problem atm.
My 84mm collection is very small and I only have two 84mm knives with combo tool and both have the last combo tool. So I can't help much.

When I checked my 91mm knives with combotools when I wrote the evo page I didn't notice those changes on the 91mm (it could be I just don't got the old enough 91mm saks but the 1985-1991 compact 's combo look just like the newer saks I own (Compact/TimeKeeper/Scientist/Yoaman/D&E) combo tools. So I don't know if those variations works on 91mm saks.

Good work