Leatherman and COO for 2010

[ari6126]

Back to the original topic, if I understand this correctly, Leathermans sold in the US don't say where they are made because goods made in the US and sold in the US don't need a COO. So wouldn't Leathermans sold in other countries need a COO?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Different countries have different laws and different requirements.  In fact, Leathermans are technically Made in the USA, except in California where they are "Assembled in the USA from domestic and foreign components" as California has different requirements.

In order to comply with as many codes as possible (thereby making few, if any different versions for different locations) Leatherman, and most companies have made the packaging as generic as possible.

Def

[zepla]

Alright, I have no personal issues with anybody here (as far as I know  ) But I genuinely interested in the question; what does it matter wher a tool comes from? Oh, and what does COO means? I'm sure it does not mean Chief Operating Oficer, does it?

[american lockpicker]

Country of Origin(Made in USA, Assembled in USA, Made in China, Swiss Made, etc.)

[Zack]

COO=Country of Origin

[Woz]

It does not mean anything to most Europeans, but it seems to mean a lot to Ben and - as I know from other gear forums - many other US guys. Patriotism in terms of buying US things, wearing US flags and so on seems to be an US American phenomenon mostly. Yes, I know there are nationalists everywhere, but it seems to me they are more common and accepted in the US. Loving your country is great (I love mine too, even if I would go to Sweden the very moment anyone grants me a job there), but it seems most Europeans love their country in silence, Americans in public. Large sports events  are the exeption of this rule

I do not cary about the origins of products as long as they are good. I have great stuff from China and bullColorful Enunciation from Germany, it always depends on quality control and company values...

PS: I do not mean to offend anyone, maybe the pictures the media shows us (flag waving US patriots everywhere) are misleading. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[american lockpicker]

But I genuinely interested in the question; what does it matter wher a tool comes from?

To me it matters as I like to avoid content from places such as China.

Also its not really a patriotic thing for me anymore(hasn't been for a while  ) as I have a lot of issues with how my government runs things. I try to buy stuff thats made in countries that treat workers fairly and pay them well.

[Mr. Whippy]

Here's my answer to this and similar questions:

Leatherman is a quality company that does its utmost to abide by the laws, rules and regulations which govern the type of commerce in which they are active.  As such, I am confident that they are abiding to all rules, regulations and laws regarding labeling on their products and packaging.

If anyone has a concern in this regard, there are private, public and governmental agencies which will hear such concerns and pursue legal action, if required.

 

[Medic82]

But why will not Leatherman say where the parts that is outsourced made? Do they outsource the tool implements? Is it because they are ashamed that they get parts from China or other places? Is it to keep an image that every part of a Leatherman is made in USA? I honestly don’t know but I sure would like to know.

I can understand why this is important for ALP since he wants to support companies that make their products in USA and don’t outsource things that could be made in-country. I my self don’t like outsourcing since I believe it affects the country in a negative way and companies that outsource/use factories in China and other countries with cheap labor and don’t follow the basic human rights, does not really have 100% control over every part of the production and that the workers are treated properly.

[jzmtl]

But why will not Leatherman say where the parts that is outsourced made? Do they outsource the tool implements? Is it because they are ashamed that they get parts from China or other places? Is it to keep an image that every part of a Leatherman is made in USA? I honestly don’t know but I sure would like to know.

Show me one company that list where all the parts come from (assuming the product is made of more than a couple of parts).

Besides the contracted parts could change supplier anytime, so you'd have to throw out all the literature and print new ones.

[MultiMat]

I think the days of  buying a multi component product entirely made in the one location is numbered.
Exploitation of workers occurs in every country. Australia , US & yes China.
I think it would be impossible to be certain that anything you buy has not been made with out some level of worker exploitation.
JMHO.

  

[Medic82]

But why will not Leatherman say where the parts that is outsourced made? Do they outsource the tool implements? Is it because they are ashamed that they get parts from China or other places? Is it to keep an image that every part of a Leatherman is made in USA? I honestly don’t know but I sure would like to know.

Show me one company that list where all the parts come from (assuming the product is made of more than a couple of parts).

Besides the contracted parts could change supplier anytime, so you'd have to throw out all the literature and print new ones.

That my friend will never happen since I’m to lazy too find out and it’s not that important to me.

I’m not saying that they should have it printed in the manual, but they could write it on their web site if they wanted.

I think the days of  buying a multi component product entirely made in the one location is numbered.
Exploitation of workers occurs in every country. Australia , US & yes China.
I think it would be impossible to be certain that anything you buy has not been made with out some level of worker exploitation.
JMHO.

 

I really can’t se no reason why it would be numbered, I just watched the video of the Leatherman factory and there they received a huge role of steel that they made the components and handles out of. How much does one machine like that cost? A couple of 100 000 dollars? A company like Leatherman have the money to buy whatever machine they need to produce the part they have outsourced and hire a person  or 2 to operate the equipment. That is 2 people that is a part of the workforce in the US and paying taxes to the US government, I even bet that Leatherman would get the steel cheaper since they need to order more to the factory. Leatherman has a rock solid product that still sells like hot cake even in a financial crisis

[MultiMat]

Things like plier heads must be fairly specialized as Leatherman had a separate American company make them , which then relocated too Mexico & SOG's Pliers are made offshore. Leatherman also sources some of it's files from overseas.

[Spoonrobot]

Back to the original topic, if I understand this correctly, Leathermans sold in the US don't say where they are made because goods made in the US and sold in the US don't need a COO.

That's my understanding as well, there are exceptions to that label-free issue but they don't involve multitools. Given the history of LTG I would be shocked if they were outsourcing parts to Asia, I suspect one of the main reasons is the damaging knockoffs that have come from that region for some time.

Things like plier heads must be fairly specialized as Leatherman had a separate American company make them , which then relocated too Mexico & SOG's Pliers are made offshore. Leatherman also sources some of it's files from overseas.

I don't think it was a specialization issue since (referencing Neitherextreme's thread) the plier heads were originally cast in the US but the company that did that relocated to Mexico and LTG wanted to keep the same supplier. Finishing appears to take place at the Oregon plant. SOG also appears to source implements elsewhere, I have an invoice from 2008 with a reference to Taiwan made SOG saws.

Regarding Bear MGC, does anyone actually know if their tools are produced with entirely US-made components? I've never seen much traffic about that company/topic, anyone have a source or is it just an assumption?

[prime77]

It does not mean anything to most Europeans, but it seems to mean a lot to Ben and - as I know from other gear forums - many other US guys. Patriotism in terms of buying US things, wearing US flags and so on seems to be an US American phenomenon mostly. Yes, I know there are nationalists everywhere, but it seems to me they are more common and accepted in the US. Loving your country is great (I love mine too, even if I would go to Sweden the very moment anyone grants me a job there), but it seems most Europeans love their country in silence, Americans in public. Large sports events  are the exeption of this rule

I do not cary about the origins of products as long as they are good. I have great stuff from China and bullColorful Enunciation from Germany, it always depends on quality control and company values...

PS: I do not mean to offend anyone, maybe the pictures the media shows us (flag waving US patriots everywhere) are misleading. Sorry if I offended anyone.

I think this is very true. At least for me. I understand that other people may not feel the same way and don't care at all where the stuff they buy comes form. A long time ago I used to look at a LM tool and see USA on the plier head and be proud of the fact that such a quality product was made in the good old US of A. By hard working American workers. The same goes for a Spyderco that has Golden, Colorado on the blade or a Surefire or anything for that matter. I may have a naive and simplistic look on the subject but I would like to buy and product from as American company that employees Americans, paying them American wages. So that they can spend their money in their community and keep other Americans in there jobs. I understand that MT.O is a international forum and you guys may not understand my outlook and I respect that. That is what makes the internet and this place so good. Differing opinions.

[Woz]

Oh, I understand your opinion. I guess the main difference is that there is in fact no European country that produces all the stuff we need, so we always have to look over the borders.
For example: I just talk about 4 products in this example, there are thousands more, I know.
I´m Austrian. We build cars in Graz, but there is no Austrian car brand. The cars we build are Chrysler, BMW, Jeep or even Aston Martin, but alway foreign brands. Built from components from all over the world. There is no knife or multitool brand here too. We have knifemakers, manufacturers of kitchen cutlery and some good quality tool manufacturers, but no MT.
France, Germany and some other countries here have car brands. But no tools too. Switzerland has the knives and tools, but no cars. Sweden has great knives (Fallkniven, EKA), Cars (Volvo, SAAB) but no MT... Oh, and there are hardly any good quality European flashlights! So, bullsmurf lights or darkness.

Yes, in fact I know that most Fallkniven are made in Japan, French and German cars are built somewhere else (see Graz) from foreign parts and that it is the same everywhere. Is there ANY manufacturer of computers or electronics that does produce in China or other Asian countries? My Macs are all "Designed by Apple in California, assembled in China"...

The EU may have a lot of member states, so I would maybe be able to get everything I need made in the EU. And all these states are "brothers" in terms of some political and economical issues. But still, the EU is not the US, so I´m Austrian and not just "EUan" - here the national states are a much more important to the citizens than the EU. Everyone feels Austrian, Swedish, Dutch, German, ... but no one I know feels European in the first place. Guess THAT is the main difference. 

[AHB]

Well said, Woz.. 

[prime77]

Well said, Woz.. 

I agree also. The world is changing very fast. getting smaller and smaller all the time. When you talk of cars I understand perfectly. Both my American cars (a Chrysler and a Pontiac) are made in Canada. 

[GraysonK]

Well said, Woz.. 

+1

[american lockpicker]

But why will not Leatherman say where the parts that is outsourced made? Do they outsource the tool implements? Is it because they are ashamed that they get parts from China or other places? Is it to keep an image that every part of a Leatherman is made in USA? I honestly don’t know but I sure would like to know.

Show me one company that list where all the parts come from (assuming the product is made of more than a couple of parts)...

Well Gerber does. On one multitool(I'm thinking Flik or Suspension) they mention the multitool is made in China and the pliers are made in Taiwan.

[MultiMat]

Regarding Bear MGC, does anyone actually know if their tools are produced with entirely US-made components? I've never seen much traffic about that company/topic, anyone have a source or is it just an assumption?

When I was making inquiries about purchasing some of the fasteners they use on their smallest MT they did comment that they order them from another source 

[zepla]

It does not mean anything to most Europeans, but it seems to mean a lot to Ben and - as I know from other gear forums - many other US guys. Patriotism in terms of buying US things, wearing US flags and so on seems to be an US American phenomenon mostly. Yes, I know there are nationalists everywhere, but it seems to me they are more common and accepted in the US. Loving your country is great (I love mine too, even if I would go to Sweden the very moment anyone grants me a job there), but it seems most Europeans love their country in silence, Americans in public. Large sports events  are the exeption of this rule

I do not cary about the origins of products as long as they are good. I have great stuff from China and bullColorful Enunciation from Germany, it always depends on quality control and company values...

PS: I do not mean to offend anyone, maybe the pictures the media shows us (flag waving US patriots everywhere) are misleading. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Nationalism/patriotism (almost nobody sees the difference over here) is not a good thing over here. I does make a lot of people remind of the last war so a lot of people get a bit scary when someone is yelling out that their country is better or should be benefited in whatever way over other coutries. But we have them overhere as well. They want to turn our country into an island with a large gate around it, as if everything here is soooo great 

But I always think it is funny when people get ticked of if someone offend their country. Listen, it is not yours, you are just born/live there. If it is a country you have actually have founded yourself personaly, it something different of course. Like Zeplacoutry, that's obviously the best country in the world. To bad it is only in my head 

So, that should stir things up a bit  and could very easy slip into something like the religion discussion we've had  Yeah, lets go down that road again  I'll shut up now....

[jzmtl]

I understand americans who want to buy american, but I find it funny when they tell australians that they should buy something because it's made in u.s. (as happened often on forums)

[Woz]

Are there any tools made in Zeplacountry?

[jzmtl]

Are there any tools made in Zeplacountry?

Just one. 

[AHB]

Are there any tools made in Zeplacountry?

Just one. 

Be nice...  

Any chance for a honour citizenship in Zeplacountry..?  

[J-sews]

Nationalism/patriotism (almost nobody sees the difference over here) is not a good thing over here. I does make a lot of people remind of the last war so a lot of people get a bit scary when someone is yelling out that their country is better or should be benefited in whatever way over other coutries. But we have them overhere as well. They want to turn our country into an island with a large gate around it, as if everything here is soooo great  

But I always think it is funny when people get ticked of if someone offend their country. Listen, it is not yours, you are just born/live there. If it is a country you have actually have founded yourself personaly, it something different of course. Like Zeplacoutry, that's obviously the best country in the world. To bad it is only in my head  

So, that should stir things up a bit   and could very easy slip into something like the religion discussion we've had   Yeah, lets go down that road again   I'll shut up now....

Wow Zepla, good point. I never thought about it that way before.


Now I wanna be a Zeplacountrynian too!

[DaveK]

I've said it before. Sealand have it right.

http://www.sealandgov.org/

[zepla]

Nationalism/patriotism (almost nobody sees the difference over here) is not a good thing over here. I does make a lot of people remind of the last war so a lot of people get a bit scary when someone is yelling out that their country is better or should be benefited in whatever way over other coutries. But we have them overhere as well. They want to turn our country into an island with a large gate around it, as if everything here is soooo great  

But I always think it is funny when people get ticked of if someone offend their country. Listen, it is not yours, you are just born/live there. If it is a country you have actually have founded yourself personaly, it something different of course. Like Zeplacoutry, that's obviously the best country in the world. To bad it is only in my head  

So, that should stir things up a bit   and could very easy slip into something like the religion discussion we've had   Yeah, lets go down that road again   I'll shut up now....

Wow Zepla, good point. I never thought about it that way before.


Now I wanna be a Zeplacountrynian too!

Yeah everybody does! It is perhaps because of al the topless ladies walking around asking if they can be of "any assistance" and of course all MT's come with standard a light saber in Zeplacountry. Obviously. 

[GraysonK]

Light sabers!!!!!  Sign me up!!!