Could LM make an "economy" brand? (ie Spyderco/Byrd)

NeitherExtreme · **on:** June 11, 2007, 04:17:13 AM

Well, if you know about Spyderco and their Byrd line of knives, you'll understand my question. Spyderco introduced a new line of knives that doesn't have their name on it, but they still design and stand behind the knives. They are made in China I believe and are cheaper but still good quality (although exactly up to the "normal" spyderco quality). They also can use this brand name to experiment without trashing the Spyderco name. So do you think LM could do something similar to grab a peice of the lower end market as well as do some experimenting?

J-sews · **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2007, 04:38:03 AM

I hope they don't.

I would not want to see them start down the same path as Gerber. I'm fairly certain that Gerber has gotten to the point where more of their models are made in Asia than are made in Portland, Oregon. It seems like putting a company's good name on cheap tools only makes everything they produce less valuable. Just my opinion I suppose.

Anthony · **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2007, 05:12:12 AM

I agree. It seems everything get's watered down the more a company spreads out. Leatherman seems to be doing fine with what they have going now...QUALITY tools people are willing to pay a good price for.

It's like a band who plays one type of music great and they have lots of fans specifically for that reason...then they try and expand and the die hard fans leave.

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #3 on:** June 13, 2007, 02:34:09 AM

You know, I've did a little more thinking on the subject, and kinda ended up where you guys are. It seemed like it could be a good idea (for LM money-wise anyway), but I think you're both right. Cheap multi's are a dime a dozen already, and the more quality manufacturing that can continue to happen in the US the better. I still think it would be cool to see what ideas they could toy around with, and also to get good tools for less $$, but it would have to be done just right or the trade-offs wouldn't be worth it.

J-sews · **Reply #4 on:** June 13, 2007, 03:44:56 AM

I think if a company DOES go this route, they should take great pains to follow Spyderco's methods. Give the econo line an entirely seperate brand name. (Byrd) That way folks don't ever associate the Spyderco quality name with something made in China.

In other words, don't do what Gerber did and build some Gerber-logo products in the USA, while other Gerber-logo items are made in China to a lower standard.

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #5 on:** June 14, 2007, 01:47:15 AM

Quote from: J-sews on June 13, 2007, 03:44:56 AM

I think if a company DOES go this route, they should take great pains to follow Spyderco's methods. Give the econo line an entirely seperate brand name. (Byrd) That way folks don't ever associate the Spyderco quality name with something made in China.

In other words, don't do what Gerber did and build some Gerber-logo products in the USA, while other Gerber-logo items are made in China to a lower standard.

Exactly my thoughts as well. I was impressed by the way Spyderco effectively did what they did. I certainly don't think we need any foreign-made Leathermans, but maybe some foreign-made Leatherman-designed models could be cool. I just wonder what name they put on them...

J-sews · **Reply #6 on:** June 14, 2007, 04:15:30 AM

Quote from: NeitherExtreme on June 14, 2007, 01:47:15 AM

Exactly my thoughts as well. I was impressed by the way Spyderco effectively did what they did. I certainly don't think we need any foreign-made Leathermans, but maybe some foreign-made Leatherman-designed models could be cool. I just wonder what name they put on them...

Dang, this is a perfect set up for a Defender-type wisecrack reply. Where is that guy when we really need him?

I'm Still Bison · **Reply #7 on:** June 14, 2007, 04:37:07 AM

Quote from: NeitherExtreme on June 14, 2007, 01:47:15 AM

Quote from: J-sews on June 13, 2007, 03:44:56 AM
I think if a company DOES go this route, they should take great pains to follow Spyderco's methods. Give the econo line an entirely seperate brand name. (Byrd) That way folks don't ever associate the Spyderco quality name with something made in China.

In other words, don't do what Gerber did and build some Gerber-logo products in the USA, while other Gerber-logo items are made in China to a lower standard.
Exactly my thoughts as well. I was impressed by the way Spyderco effectively did what they did. I certainly don't think we need any foreign-made Leathermans, but maybe some foreign-made Leatherman-designed models could be cool. I just wonder what name they put on them...

I agree, I've handled a few no-name multis that weren't bad,didn't quite make the grade,...but would've benefitted from assistance with QC issues from a big name maker.

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #8 on:** June 14, 2007, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: J-sews on June 14, 2007, 04:15:30 AM

Dang, this is a perfect set up for a Defender-type wisecrack reply. Where is that guy when we really need him?

I agree! I could use a laugh today

Personally I'd be afraid of what they would pick for a name. I haven't been a big fan of their name-picking over the years. (Kick, Juice, Squirt, just to name a few!)

J-sews · **Reply #9 on:** June 15, 2007, 02:14:46 AM

I hear ya' there!!

I'm okay with the Blast/Fuse/Charge type names....but those liquid and fluid type names (Juice, Surge, Squirt) make me think of innappropriate bodily functions.

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #10 on:** June 15, 2007, 04:20:15 AM

Quote from: J-sews on June 15, 2007, 02:14:46 AM

I'm okay with the Blast/Fuse/Charge type names....but those liquid and fluid type names (Juice, Surge, Squirt) make me think of innappropriate bodily functions.

Ain't that the truth! I always hate it when someone asks me "what kind of Leatherman is that?" Me: "Uh... a juice" or "Uh... a squirt"

You just hope the person you're talking to is of the more mature variety, and can skip the chance to make fun.

And Kick just isn't that great either. Sidekick would have made sense...

Dunc · **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2007, 12:05:12 AM

I think it would be a bad idea

We may end up with tools that rust and have quality control problems , oh hang on we get that now

Dunc

J-sews · **Reply #12 on:** June 16, 2007, 12:06:55 AM

Quote from: dunc5 on June 16, 2007, 12:05:12 AM

I think it would be a bad idea We may end up with tools that rust and have quality control problems , oh hang on we get that now.

Dunc

Ouch! That one is going to leave a mark!

Dunc · **Reply #13 on:** June 16, 2007, 12:14:19 AM

Sorry guys couldnt resist

Dunc

Raukodur · **Reply #14 on:** June 16, 2007, 09:51:09 AM

hehe, I am sure a psychologist would find it quite interesting that a hardcore Vic fan feels the need to attack LMs at every oppurtunity

Dunc · **Reply #15 on:** June 16, 2007, 10:29:24 AM

Quote from: Raukodur on June 16, 2007, 09:51:09 AM

hehe, I am sure a psychologist would find it quite interesting that a hardcore Vic fan feels the need to attack LMs at every oppurtunity

I see your point but you must admit theres a little truth in what I'm saying

I do like Leathermans ( honest ) and have owned about 5 but their more recent ones do seem to have a few quality problems

I had to send two charges back , one for excessive plier play and the other for faulty springs in the handle ( the two little prongs that run on the joint of the pliers ) . I much prefer the older ones . I was a huge fan of them and my first multitool was a PST .

Dunc

NeitherExtreme · **Reply #16 on:** June 16, 2007, 04:31:25 PM

What kind of designs would you want to see LM try if they did have an economy (insert name idea) line? I'd like to see some more pocket sized ideas, other than the Juice line (although I like that line) just for variety's sake, and they could make good gifts IMO. I'm still working on a good name... my best idea so far would be DuncTool

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2007, 08:26:10 PM

Latexman Spit?

I hear it comes in a nylon case with studs and very tight straps....

Seriously, I think it might be a decent enough idea for a few reasons. Like Spyderco, Leatherman has long been a target for Asian ripoffs- if they could produce a brand name Leatherman in the same price range and start a "Only a Leatherman is a Leatherman" type campaign to get the name out then they might end up stealing some of the market back from the knockoff market. You can get a cheap tool for $20, but even the smaller LM's retail much higher than that- look at the Kick and the Juice models. Quite pricey despite the small size. All you are really paying for is "American Craftsmanship" which is so important nowadays that most US manufacturers are going out of business. And, Asia can produce very fine knives and tools- look at Columbia River for example. Look at some of the better SAK knockoffs. Benchmade, Cold Steel, Spyderco etc all offer knives made in Asia because there's nothing wrong with them. The cheap stuff you see in the discount bin at Home Depot is just that- low end crapola, purchased by some marketing guy who wanted to make a fast buck, or a fast two bucks by also getting permission to print a well known name on it (like Remington, Colt, Smith & Wesson, NASCAR etc) too.

Those cheap knockoffs are not the only things the Chinese can make- it's just what we tend to associate with them. And, don't forget, it wasn't too long ago that everything made n Japan was a hunk of crap too...

Def