Leatherman Design Contest (by Leatherman!)

[NeitherExtreme]

Just stumbled onto this, and it looks prety exciting. Check it out for yourself!

http://www.leatherman.com/leatherman-world/design-contest/default.asp

[Grant Lamontagne]

Cheaper than paying their own designers I guess!

Def

[NeitherExtreme]

True, six tools for who-knows-how-many designs. Good deal for them. Also fun for the one who wins the tools...

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'll take the original prototype and five of those silver inlaid tools!

Def

[665ae]

When I saw that contest I thought of Tom and the custom tool he was trying to build prototypes of.

Where is Mr Munch by the way?  I hope everythings ok!

[J-sews]

I think we should take a crack at this contest. Y'know, focus our combined multitool brainpower and come up with a design worthy of submitting. Whaddaya think?

[Anthony]

Something other than needle nose or blunt pliers has to be used I think...THAT would be something to make them stop and look.  Maybe we can build on what Tom had come up using that adjustable head wrench..

I'd like to see Tom come back to...he was wise in the ways of tools

[Raukodur]

I think there are two ways to approach this, either design a completely different tool than anything on offer, or take a tool already made and modify it. Examples of the latter approach:

The 'crunch II' model which has the outside opening blades on it

The wave/surge/charge with a vic cybertool similar bit driver as one of the outside opening tools, surge-scissors as another, and two blade exchangers for the other two slots, into which you can slot the plain or serrated knife, or the saw or the metal file.

[NeitherExtreme]

Which of the scenerios are you guys interested in?

[Tom Munch]

Things were so busy over here (at multitool.org) for a while that I got overwhelmed keeping up with you all.  Now I'm on the summer schedule & working 7 days a week.  I try to check in every once in a while though.  Sorry I'm not as good a contributor lately.  I've had to let a lot of things slide this summer that I'm not happy about.

I think Leatherman is being a little lazy designing tools as Def said if they're looking to us for ideas.  They can read up on our ideas here.

Tom

[J-sews]

Oh what the hell, I still think we should give it a go.

Which of the scenerios are you guys interested in?

I must confess to thinking we should press on with the adjustable-plier/channel lock plier head concept. Those type of pliers are more suited to mechanical and plumbing related chores than outdoorsy situations. Given that, I'm thinking we should go apply under the Hunting Scenario (assuming a broken truck). None of the other scenarios they suggest really make sense.

[NeitherExtreme]

Yeah, the first things that popped in my head didn't really seem to fit any of the scenerios too much. They didn't really give us any EDC scenerio, did they?  Maybe they feel they already have that covered, and are looking for creative ways to branch out. I think I'd personally be most interested in the outdoor scenerio.

[J-sews]

I think there are two ways to approach this, either design a completely different tool than anything on offer, or take a tool already made and modify it. Examples of the latter approach:

The 'crunch II' model which has the outside opening blades on it.......

Yes, I had forgotten about our discussion on that one. Not a bad concept at all. The Crunch already has these two large lugs protruding out the sides where the plier head pivots. Adding an extra layer on each side would not make the tool very much wider at all.

Measured over the tops of the lugs, a Crunch is .710" wide.
Measured over the tops of the large side screws, an original Wave measures .735" wide.
The difference between the two is only .025, or about half a millimeter for you metric folks.

Shown below, I took a Crunch and morphed an original Wave onto it. Size-wise, it seems like a good fit. Two more outside opening blades could be added to the lower handle, but I was too lazy to draw them. I also attached the original Wave scissors, which were the best folders ever offered by Leatherman.

[supratentorial]

The outside accessible blades look like wings... Let's hope they don't call it the Leatherman Pegasus!

I like the design but I'd be interested in a couple of changes...  If there are no limitations imposed, I'd keep the scissors but swap out the dedicated drivers for a full size hex bit adapter (one that doesn't require removing the tension screw).  If I had to use Leatherman parts, I'd either add their large bit driver or the hollow ground drivers.

...I'd also add a release bar similar to the one on the Kershaw A100C.

[Raukodur]

The Leatherman Pegasus, wow, not only sounds good but the design looks pretty slick!

But what would the outside opening tools be? 2 slots, with a choice of 4 tools...

Also, if an outside opening tool replaces one that was previously inside opening, what would replace the tool on the inside...

I dont think its worth putting a normal hex bit adapter, or any kind onto the tool, since leatherman already claim they have one on the crunch if you remove the screw. Not having used the tool in this capacity myself, I do not know how well this adapter works, but if it does its job, I don't understand why LM have then wasted 3 slots with 2 screwdrivers and a phillips, I would definately change that.

If the file is still going to be inside opening, then put a medium sized screwriver ending onto it and take out all the other flat drivers. Leave in the phillips. This frees up 2 slots. One of those should be taken up by the combo can / bottle opener, the other maybe by an awl?

Regarding scissors, I do think they should be on the tool, but there is the choice of the outside opening Surge style, or the inside opening wave style (i dont think the tiny wierd charge and new wave style scissors are the way to go)

About which tools open on the outside, plain knife I think is a definate, but I am not sure what should go with it (unless of course its the scissors). One out of the big four will have to be left out I think (i.e. one out of wood saw, file, serrated knife, plain knife).

The 'Pegasus' definately seems to make sense as the successor to the crunch, since I do not see how the locking mechanisms can be improved (maybe somehow make the pliers open wider? but that is the job of LM engineers, not really ours), but outside opening blades adds more implements even if making the tool larger and heavier.

BTW Bob, in the pic you have made, are you considering only adding the 'sleeves' to the one handle? Won't that make the two handles have different widths making it a bit uncomfortable to use the tool and make it look odd when its in the closed configuration?

EDIT: Ah, well that will teach me for not reading people's posts carefully enough, you made it quite clear that you didnt add the outside opening tools onto the bottom two but it is possible. If the crunch was to have 4 such sleeves then you really would be spoint for choice in terms of the amount of tools you could have on that thing, and combine that with the locking pliers and you have maybe the most advanced multitool made by LM! Not so much a bigger brother of the crunch but a hybrid of the Crunch and Charge / Wave / Surge series!

Would really be leatherman showing off and showing how they are going in two directions, on the one hand the minimalist design with the freestyle, and on the other the all in one, with the 'pegasus' (or, if you have four outside opening tools, the 'dragonfly'?)

EDIT2: lol, well it looks like I misread supratentorial's post as well, but I suppose you gathered from my post that I don't think the name 'pegasus' would be that bad 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I think that was the point of adding the scissors to the second handle- not to replace a tool, but in addition to the existing ones so the handles would be the same width. 

Def

[Raukodur]

Fair enough Def, but if the appratus for the outside opening tools is put onto one of the handles, how can it not be put on the other? That would leave the two handles of different widths which I am not sure would look attractive.

[Grant Lamontagne]

The second handle is widened to match the first handle, and with the extra interior space, the scissors are added.

Def

[Raukodur]

Ah, my mistake 

[Grant Lamontagne]

No worries.  The drawback to a forum is that written words aren't always as expressive as you'd like.

Bob, I think you have a winner there, and you should submit that design with the condition that if it goes into production, it MUST have this guy stamped into it!   

Def

[Raukodur]

also, that minor imporvement you were mentioning in that specific 'crunch improvements thread' should not be forgotten, in that the handle which doesnt have the screw on the back should be elongated slightly to match the length of the other handle when it has the screw screwed in all the way. That extra space is wasted, and can allow all the tools to be lengthened by near a centimetre.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Good point- I'd forgotten all about that.  My Crunch is visiting another member so I don;t have it handy to look and see what other improvements we could make.

Def

[David Bowen]

Hey guys, I have got a feeling that we can make this work. Leatherman needs a new design, and how cool would it be for not one person but an organization such as us to create a new model. We got the know how and we got the background, we know what is needed in the market place. I say lets really get a design together and submit it to Leatherman. If we think the Crunch II (The Crave) is the one we want, then ok. But I think we should consider other possibilities. Alot of us have some great ideas, lets share them, and as a group collective get it done right.

David

[J-sews]

I agree completely, and there's no reason we can't submit more than one design. The Crave/Pegasus is one. I submitted it in MTorg's name, I'll let you guys know what I hear back. If by some miracle we win, I'll pass the tools on to Def to give away as contest prizes.


Okay, so what design do we want to work on next?

[665ae]

I've been thinking about the outdoor scenario.  Here's the tool I would like to see (and would definately carry!)

First off, the size is a very important factor.  I want something small, light, and easily packable.  I would like to see something no more than an inch wide when folded.  (the Buck 355 Bucklite is a little under an inch)  I would prefer it to stay around 5-6 inches long. 

Some things I would like to have are:

POCKET CLIP - it could be either one I install (like on the Kick) or come already on the tool.  I want easy fast access to the tool.  If I'm wearing a backpack, I won't be able to wear a sheath on my belt. 

Pliers - When I'm backpacking, I don't normally need beefy pliers that can turn rusted nut's or bolt's.  What I do need is small elongated pliers to grab the small parts inside my stove (if I need to rebuild it) or to remove a stubborn hook while fishing.  I envision the pliers to be long and narrow, but a tad bit shorter than most found on fishing multitools. 

Inside one handle I would like a clip point blade.  I want a blade with a point for general cutting chores.  Some tasks it would be used for would be opening food packets, cutting paracord, shaving bark for tinder, cleaning fish, etc.   
Next to the blade I'd like to have one of the LM removeable bit drivers (the narrow one)  While I don't normally need to turn many screws, sometimes there's a screw in a battery compartment cover (like in my little radio) that needs to be removed.  The bit driver would give me the option to carry the bits I need depending on my gear.

Finally, rounding out the handle would be a pair of scissors.  Very handy for pack or clothing repair, nail care, etc.

In the other handle I would like to have a wood cutting saw.  Something I can use to cut thru small branches to make firewood (if I don't have a big knife )  I can also use it to cut branches to build shelter. 

I would also like to have a file in this handle.  I would like a rough file on one side, and a fine file on the other side of it with a hook sharpener.  There are times when I need to sharpen hooks (expecially when I make my own) The file could also be used to sharpen sticks, repair a damaged knife, etc.

I'm at a loss as to what to put in the middle of this handle.  I would like to have a can opener, but I very rarely take canned goods anymore.  A short magnesium rod or flint rod could be useful (as long as it's replaceable)  You could also make an argument for an awl.

What are your thoughts?

[665ae]

Hey Bob... what did you submit to Leatherman?  I'd like to submit my hiking/camping tool but have no clue what they need me to send...

[Grant Lamontagne]

I believe all they require is a one page (approx 500 words) description of what your idea is.  That would make it easier for their designers to work in existing parts.

Def

[dingosrun]

we could call it the downunder

[dingosrun]

maybe also as you guys were talking about the future of leathermans
maybe in your tool you should have a usb thumb drive like they have add to the swiss knives
this would add a whole new market to the tool

[David Bowen]

I've decided, hands down! What Leatherman needs to make, is a reproduction (modernized of course) of Tim's original tool he created. His Vicegrip type pliers that lock with the ability to use blunt or needle nose. After reading the CNN article and remembering the pics of the proto, Leatherman would make some money just for the sake of collectors, even if they did a limited run or something.

David