Why don't...

[Grant Lamontagne]

I think Ducttapetech hit the nail on the head:

But if I want a jeep, i am getting a jeep.

We can sit here and point out what people need and argue about what's safer and what's better and it's really all highly subjective.  What we need to remember is that we all live in relatively free societies that allow us to buy what we want and what we can afford, and for most of us, we try to get that little bit more in everything.  For some, that little bit extra is the ability to see over things that others can't.  For others, it's getting a little bit more mileage, and yet for others it's trying to convert everyone to riding bicycles everywhere! 

I don't need a Jeep.  Yes I go off roading, but I only do it because I have a Jeep, not the other way around.  I can justify it by saying that I need it to pick up things for the house, but the reality is, Home Depot delivers, so that's a load of poo.  Also, I can fit both my dogs into my wife's Sunfire- which we did for years.  So really, I don't need a Jeep.  But, I'm a fat, middle aged guy and I wanted a convertible, and I like trucks, so I bought one.  Fortunately I am averagely endowed so I didn't need a Ram 3500 with the Hemi and a 6 inch lift to compensate.  Some people do though, and that's their choice.

We can complain and discuss this till the cows come home, but we should be careful on how far we push others to shtart sinkink der same vay ve do, because ve all know vhat road zat kind of mentality leads us down.   

Def

[thebullfrog]

I do gotta say though that I really am a bit hypocritical. Because the fact is you don't by any means need a fast car to get anywhere, but I insist on modifying every car I have ever owned and will always continue to do so. It's never fast enough. Of course I never complain about how much the gas costs when my mileage drops into the toilet and I have to run premium to keep from blowing pistons apart. I'm sure my loud ass car pisses people off just as much I get pissed not being able to see around the dillhole in the Tundra blocking my view of the turn lane.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I think Ducttapetech hit the nail on the head:

But if I want a jeep, i am getting a jeep.

We can sit here and point out what people need and argue about what's safer and what's better and it's really all highly subjective.  What we need to remember is that we all live in relatively free societies that allow us to buy what we want and what we can afford, and for most of us, we try to get that little bit more in everything.  For some, that little bit extra is the ability to see over things that others can't.  For others, it's getting a little bit more mileage, and yet for others it's trying to convert everyone to riding bicycles everywhere! 

I don't need a Jeep.  Yes I go off roading, but I only do it because I have a Jeep, not the other way around.  I can justify it by saying that I need it to pick up things for the house, but the reality is, Home Depot delivers, so that's a load of poo.  Also, I can fit both my dogs into my wife's Sunfire- which we did for years.  So really, I don't need a Jeep.  But, I'm a fat, middle aged guy and I wanted a convertible, and I like trucks, so I bought one.  Fortunately I am averagely endowed so I didn't need a Ram 3500 with the Hemi and a 6 inch lift to compensate.  Some people do though, and that's their choice.

We can complain and discuss this till the cows come home, but we should be careful on how far we push others to shtart sinkink der same vay ve do, because ve all know vhat road zat kind of mentality leads us down.   

Def

Was that a dig at me

[zepla]

They use a lot of fuel and we have more corners around here. Ever tried to make a fast turn in a truck? And did you ever seen the finishing in an american car and a europe car? Look at the dash, you know, the part that you are looking at every time you drive it, and you know why we do not have a lot of american cars over here.

This does says it all...

[DaveK]

This does says it all...

Brilliant

"Barn Door Engineering" 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I do gotta say though that I really am a bit hypocritical. Because the fact is you don't by any means need a fast car to get anywhere, but I insist on modifying every car I have ever owned and will always continue to do so. It's never fast enough. Of course I never complain about how much the gas costs when my mileage drops into the toilet and I have to run premium to keep from blowing pistons apart. I'm sure my loud ass car pisses people off just as much I get pissed not being able to see around the dillhole in the Tundra blocking my view of the turn lane.

If you are talking about those modified import racercar things, well I bloody hate those.  Every jackass kid up here has one one of those, and they think they can drive, but all they really do is cut people off in traffic and speed like crazy.  Neon lights and fancy rims don't automatically make people a good driver, but that doesn't seem to matter.  And, whether the engine gets good gas mileage or not, it doesn't help when the twits keep revving them at stop lights or trying to accelerate to 60 every time it turns green.  Proper driving habits are just as important when it comes to fuel economy as engine size or type of vehicle.

Every time I see a kid in a dinky Honda that rides almost on the ground, except when the bass cannon fires, all I can think of it how glad I am that I'm in a truck and I likely won't even feel the bump! 

Def

[thebullfrog]

Haha no, no neon equipped Honda that makes a lot of irritating noises but doesn't actually go any place for me. I hate those just as much.

[yud]

Def, how do jeeps do in winter cold wise?

[thebullfrog]

They can take a bit to get warn seeing as they don't really have actual bodywork, but the ones I've been in in the winter weren't generally too bad. Def. want the hard top though, I really don't know how guys use the soft top all winter.

[Grant Lamontagne]

It's not bad in the winter- the heater is pretty powerful when driving in the city and keeps you toasty, even with the soft top.  In fact, you will be quite warm in the winter even with the soft top down, provided you keep the windows rolled up.  Seriously, it creates a nice bubble of warmth inside.  The local Jeep Club regularly does "topless runs" in the winter and the heater keeps you nice and warm.

However, when you get on the highway, that big open grille works against you and there is too much airflow, meaning the heater starts to let cold air in.  This is why you see a lot of guys put cardboard over the grille in the cold weather.  I don't do that as it has never been that big of a worry for me, but I do notice a HUGE difference in driving on the highway versus in the city.

Because I only have the rag I find that once the heater is shut off, the cabin gets cold almost instantly.  I imagine the hard top also cools quickly, although probably not as fast.  There's a lot of open area in a Jeep, not much insulation and lots of large windows- great for visibility, not so great fro retaining heat.  This isn't a big deal if you don't plan to sit in the Jeep for an extended period of time, but can be a pain if you work out of it (like I do) or if you are just running into a store for a few minutes, as after about ten minutes of being hut off, it'll have to warm up all over again.  The engine cavity is huge, and the engine cools quickly as well, but fortunately the engine is also quite large and heats up relatively quickly, so you won't be cold for long.

I think the bottom line when considering a Jeep is that if you want creature comforts, look elsewhere.  Over the years Jeeps have evolved into more refined, more comfortable vehicles, but the Wranglers are still utilitarian vehicles at heart.  While mine is no doubt more comfortable than the guys with square headlights, it's still an almost indestructible vehicle, and you make sacrifices for it.  It's a rough ride, not at all recommended for folks with bad backs, and it weighs almost as much as my friend's Grand Cherokee, which is a much larger truck, and has all the interior refinements.  But, I can get in and out of my driveway without shoveling every time! 

Def

[yud]

thanks Def

[NutSAK]

I can tell you one reason there's so many pickup trucks around here.  There are a lot of farmers, and they're a business tax write-off.

[GraysonK]

It's not bad in the winter- the heater is pretty powerful when driving in the city and keeps you toasty, even with the soft top.  In fact, you will be quite warm in the winter even with the soft top down, provided you keep the windows rolled up.  Seriously, it creates a nice bubble of warmth inside.  The local Jeep Club regularly does "topless runs" in the winter and the heater keeps you nice and warm.

However, when you get on the highway, that big open grille works against you and there is too much airflow, meaning the heater starts to let cold air in.  This is why you see a lot of guys put cardboard over the grille in the cold weather.  I don't do that as it has never been that big of a worry for me, but I do notice a HUGE difference in driving on the highway versus in the city.

Because I only have the rag I find that once the heater is shut off, the cabin gets cold almost instantly.  I imagine the hard top also cools quickly, although probably not as fast.  There's a lot of open area in a Jeep, not much insulation and lots of large windows- great for visibility, not so great fro retaining heat.  This isn't a big deal if you don't plan to sit in the Jeep for an extended period of time, but can be a pain if you work out of it (like I do) or if you are just running into a store for a few minutes, as after about ten minutes of being hut off, it'll have to warm up all over again.  The engine cavity is huge, and the engine cools quickly as well, but fortunately the engine is also quite large and heats up relatively quickly, so you won't be cold for long.

I think the bottom line when considering a Jeep is that if you want creature comforts, look elsewhere.  Over the years Jeeps have evolved into more refined, more comfortable vehicles, but the Wranglers are still utilitarian vehicles at heart.  While mine is no doubt more comfortable than the guys with square headlights, it's still an almost indestructible vehicle, and you make sacrifices for it.  It's a rough ride, not at all recommended for folks with bad backs, and it weighs almost as much as my friend's Grand Cherokee, which is a much larger truck, and has all the interior refinements.  But, I can get in and out of my driveway without shoveling every time! 

Def

I want a Wrangler SOOOO badly...have for years.  But everytime I decide "When i get tired of the Subaru I'm getting me a Jeep" my practical self screams "NOOOOOOOO...you won't have room for the dogs, it wouldn't be ideal for taking the kids to soccer games (my niece and her little friends), it will be hell on gas, it will be too loud on the interstate with the soft top..." and a dozen other "issues".  But I really really want one still.  I just have a feeling that when the time comes for me to get a new vehicle, it's gonna be a Subaru or something like that and I'll just keep admiring the Jeep from afar.    It would be practical for getting places that I ride, hauling around bikes and stuff like that, loading it up full of kid's toys and such, but all of that can be accomplished by a subaru too.  I just don't know.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Both my dogs fit happily in the back of the Jeep, and you'd be hard pressed to have bigger animals than mine!  Chinook is a 70 pound Siberian Husky and Daisy is 120 pound rotti/shepherd mix.  Of course, I have taken the back seats out of the Jeep since I rarely put people in the back.  I tell folks that the back seats are for decorative purposes only since there isn't a lot of leg room and they are a pain to get into and out of, but I would imagine they are fine for kids.

I'm not saying get one, and I'm not saying not to get one, just letting you know my experiences in hopes of helping you make the right decision when the time comes! 

Def

[ducttapetech]

Both my dogs fit happily in the back of the Jeep, and you'd be hard pressed to have bigger animals than mine!  Chinook is a 70 pound Siberian Husky and Daisy is 120 pound rotti/shepherd mix.  Of course, I have taken the back seats out of the Jeep since I rarely put people in the back.  I tell folks that the back seats are for decorative purposes only since there isn't a lot of leg room and they are a pain to get into and out of, but I would imagine they are fine for kids.

I'm not saying get one, and I'm not saying not to get one, just letting you know my experiences in hopes of helping you make the right decision when the time comes! 

Def

What Def said and they are not that bad on gas either. My 78 CJ-5 gets 21 mpg with a V8 in it. My dads Wrangler gets 25 to 28 with a 258ci straight six. And it would do better if it had a 5 speed instead of an auto.

[thebullfrog]

I've always liked Wranglers (and he older CJs), just never been able to justify owning one. I would hardly if ever use it for "wrangler-y" things, and it just isn't practical enough as an all around vehicle for me. IF I ever do get around to moving someplace where I could see trail time regularly, it's be high on my list as they are cool as Hell and ubiquitous for a reason, but until then it just makes zero sense for me to consider buying one for my purposes.

[jzmtl]

If making sense is all it's about we all would have 1 SAK, and maybe 1 knife and MT.

[ducttapetech]

lol, no kidding. But if everything made sense, the world would be normal and boring. What fun would that be?

[Magic Bus]

Europeans have pickup trucks?

The landed gentry where I live have the next best things .. flippin' huge tractors and Range Rovers that fill our little roads .. my little Golf often ends up trying to climb the roadside bank 

[SoDak]

but do you use the Jeep for more than getting groceries. Besides smaller trucks I have no issue with. S-10s, Rangers, Dakotas, Wranglers and the like aren't so bad. I could see myself buying one in fact. My problem is with the people who have Excursions and lifted F-350s and whatnot for no reason. Or even worse the plethora of "fake" trucks that are built on minivan platforms, and people sit there complaining about gas mileage, taking up tons of space, acting like they own the road because they have a "truck" and other general asshatery.

  Dakotas get terrible mileage for their size. I've got a 97 dakota and I don't think it gets above 18mpg. A current Chevy 1500 pickup can get better mileage. Mind you I love my dakota, but you don't own one for its fuel economy.

I live on a ranch so our vehicle fleet is composed almost entirely of pickup trucks. We've got 2 cars(and only one ever gets used), and while they are nice for general run around use, the low ground clearance, no 4wd, and lack of a bed limits their utility. In the past few years we've had god awful winters and living on a gravel road means they don't always get plowed regularly. A fairly tall pickup is sometimes the only way to get anywhere(and if that fails, a tractor). Recently I went off to college and ended up getting a newer ride. Surprise, surprise I got a doge ram 1500. To be fair I went with a regular cab short box so it would be maneuverable in town. Do I always need a truck at college? No, but it snows often enough and I often have to go home to help my family on weekends that I don't care for a car that may not be able to get me where I need to go.