Micro ToolClip not available until July

[gafftapegreenia]

Powercut

[J-sews]

Powercut

(which never was released)


Or: PowerAssist

(which took over two years to be released)

[thebullfrog]

Among the reasons I'm rapidly losing faith in SOG. Such a shame as I used to be a huge fan.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Among the reasons I'm rapidly losing faith in SOG. Such a shame as I used to be a huge fan.

I don't think there's a company that hasn't had this kind of issue.  It's not fair to blame SOG for something that happens to every company.  The same thing happened with the Skeletool initially, and the Spirit.

Def

[Medic82]

Among the reasons I'm rapidly losing faith in SOG. Such a shame as I used to be a huge fan.

I don't think there's a company that hasn't had this kind of issue.  It's not fair to blame SOG for something that happens to every company.  The same thing happened with the Skeletool initially, and the Spirit.

Def

But the release date was announced several months ago, why couldn’t they just release it when they was 100% sure that they could release it at that exact time? Just look at HTC and their new Desire Z, they had a press conference a couple of days ago announcing a new model will be out in a month, and the phone WILL be released in October.

Just look at the Powercut, why on earth did they announce that it was going to be released at all when they obviously was in the testing face.

The only blame I’m putting on SOG is that they are a bit quick to set and announce a release date. If I was running a MT company I would announce the release of a new tool when I had a couple of thousands in stock and sure of that the production was OK. I don’t know where the problem is but they sure need to fix it since this is not good for SOG

[Grant Lamontagne]

Multitools, unlike phones, are not a high dollar industry.  Having the investment money tied up for a couple of months on stockpiled early production models means they will raise the price significantly.  And, like phones, multitools don't have a shelf life.  The tools released five, ten or even twenty years ago are still perfectly functional, but as my Star Tac illustrates, that's not the case with phones!  Phones have to be released right away before someone else comes out with a different model with more hype and they lose sales. 

I agree it's not good for SOG, but after chatting with Chris@SOG yesterday, the reason for the holdup is that the pre-production samples didn't meet fit and finish specs, and so were sent back.  It's better than putting a substandard tool out with their name on it.

Def

[scrappy]

Multitools, unlike phones, are not a high dollar industry.  Having the investment money tied up for a couple of months on stockpiled early production models means they will raise the price significantly.  And, like phones, multitools don't have a shelf life.  The tools released five, ten or even twenty years ago are still perfectly functional, but as my Star Tac illustrates, that's not the case with phones!  Phones have to be released right away before someone else comes out with a different model with more hype and they lose sales. 

I agree it's not good for SOG, but after chatting with Chris@SOG yesterday, the reason for the holdup is that the pre-production samples didn't meet fit and finish specs, and so were sent back.  It's better than putting a substandard tool out with their name on it.

Def

that is gerber's job Just kidding

[thebullfrog]

I understand what you're saying Def. but it's an issue of customer perception. If you say a tool is "coming soon" , but it gets pushed back a bit, nobody will ever notice. If you say something like "Q2 2010" and it misses the mark a bit, it's annoying, but oh well. When you give an exact release date, then it gets pushed a few months, that is tantamount to breaking a promise in the customer's eyes, which is very bad for business. When you then push it back beyond the SECOND date you promised, then the customer sees that promise as being broken twice and will lose a ton of faith in said company. Very, very bad for business.

When you build excitement for a product that is promised at a specific time the customer assumes that you have the ability to keep your word and will deliver in a professional manner, but when that product becomes "Micro ToolClip Forever", by the time it actually comes out it's so far past the original due date that a good chunk of your customers are now pissed and won't buy it, another chunk has flat out lost interest and probably won't buy it, a few others have forgotten about it and chances are will never buy it, others spent a limited budget on a different tool and now can't/won't buy it. On top of that the only way to mitigate this is to try and build excitement and public knowledge back up. which means spending more money on marketing it all over again.

Yes, I get that crap happens, and the fact that they are making sure the quality up to par is fantastic and one of the great things about SOG, but the fact remains, continually making and breaking promises is a terrible way to run a business, and seeing SOG do it over and over, with multiple products (on top of the "copying/ ripping-off" debate raging over them lately which we won't get into) makes me start to question the decision making abilities of Spencer and/or his people. I've been a fan of SOG for years, Hell my first several "real" knives were all SOGS, but it makes you ask why they really sold out to an investment firm. All I can say is I know I won't be buying anything else from them until they can get their crap together.

[Grant Lamontagne]

You have a point, but it doesn't carry as much weight as you think it might.  Collectors and enthusiasts are a very small demographic compared to the stuff that is sold to Sports Authority, Wal Mart and so on.  These places purchase more per store than all of Multitool.org members combined are likely to purchase, and they really only care about release dates based on whether or not the item will be available during peak seasons, like Christmas or "Dad's and Grads."  As long as they can have them in stock when people are hemorrhaging money, they don't care, which is why nothing is usually released in January, February or March, which are traditionally the slowest months for sales.

Compared to them, we are statistically insignificant, and besides, we are going to buy them anyway, whether we are upset or not, because the term "collector" can be easily and effectively substituted as "junkie."  Plus, while it seems like a big deal now, it won't be in six months.  How many of us own Skeletools, despite this very thing happening there too?  I don't know about you, but I own several.

Def

[stressmaster5000]

Compared to them, we are statistically insignificant, and besides, we are going to buy them anyway, whether we are upset or not, because the term "collector" can be easily and effectively substituted as "junkie."  Plus, while it seems like a big deal now, it won't be in six months.  How many of us own Skeletools, despite this very thing happening there too?  I don't know about you, but I own several.

Def

I am a junkie! Hope my Dad does not find out!

[thebullfrog]

A product being delayed isn't that big a deal, as you said. My issue is that SOG has made a habit of it. Yes, the Skeletool got delayed forever, but how many other LM products have been delayed that long in recent memory? Any? This marks the third time, hell the third product IN A ROW they have done this with in the last couple years. One was flat out cancelled after how many months of broken promises? You may have a point about this one being a smaller niche collector item, but after a while SOG needs to stop getting a free pass with this kind of crap and get their s#!t in line.

[Grant Lamontagne]

SOG's main business is knives, and few, if any of their knives are ever held up like this.  The multitools are an afterthought, and a low priority for them.

And Wayne, we are all junkies- how many SAKs have you bought that you thought were hideous?  I personally am drawn to the absurd and ugly rather than being repulsed by their appearance and lack of utility.  Hell, I have a 1g mp3 player, stapler, two Autotools and two.... well, I'm not certain how to describe the SportRatchet!  Plus, I have half of the only set of Urban Chameleon knives I know of to be in existence and they don't come much uglier than them!

Def

[thebullfrog]

Being a low priority does not excuse years of repeated broken promises to their customers. In fact using the argument that their tool line is a low priority only upsets me more. Saying that their multi-tool customers are a low priority for them and don't care if they piss us off, just makes me want to give them my money even less. I get that those are your words, not theirs, but the fact remains if that is their reasoning and I am a "second class citizen" so to speak in their eyes because I'm more interested in their tools than knives, then they are a second class manufacturer to me and I'll give my money to Tim Leatherman or the Elsenor family long before Spencer will get any more of it. No matter how you try and justify it Grant (and I fully understand why you would) it just makes them look worse in my eyes. They DO make some great product, they DO have fantastic customer service, they DO put quality at the forefront and stand behind every product they put out, but they haven't innovated anything other than silly gimmicks for years now, have started making stuff that seems more mall ninja than functional, and can't seem to get half their new products (at least in their tool line) out the door without years of delays and broken promises, or outright just giving up.

The single biggest thing they could do to fix half their problem is something I and a few others stated earlier in the thread: Stop announcing new products in the early stages of development and promising unrealistic release dates until they have actually figured out how, or even if, they can actually build the damn things. If you are going to show off some new prototype design at SHOT, awesome, but don't tell everyone that the production version will hit the shelves 6 months later, when you need almost 2 years of development to make it work, IF you can even produce the thing at all. If they would stop jumping the gun, and do more R&D BEFORE they announce something I, and I'm sure many others, wouldn't be so upset at them. Of course this does nothing for the backlash they've been getting from the knife guys for doing more copying than innovating, but that's a different problem for members of another community to argue over.

[Chako]

Nobody loves vaporware.

[Grant Lamontagne]

No matter how you try and justify it Grant (and I fully understand why you would) it just makes them look worse in my eyes.

Just to pick up on this point- why exactly would I?  I owe SOG no loyalty any more than I do anyone else.  And, you can substitute any manufacturer in my posts here.  They are entitled to do business how they see fit, just as you are entitled to buy or not buy what you like.  I am not trying to salvage SOG's reputation in your eyes, just explaining how things work.  You can like them, or not as you like.  However, I would also like to point out that SOG is a very successful company, so maybe the way they do things can't be all that bad.

That having been said, you are welcome to voice your thoughts here- that's what a forum is for.  If you don't like something, then great.  All I'm saying as that we are indeed a low priority- multitools are the red headed smurf stepchild of the knife industry.  I don't like it, you don't like it, and sites like Multitool.org try to get rid of that stigma, but it is the honest to God truth.  Otherwise, why would tool manufacturers (like Leatherman) start making a knife line?  Why would knife manufacturers give up on their tool line after making only a half hearted effort to produce a few models like Kershaw and Spyderco?  And why would we get excited to see "last year's" super steel on a multitool like 154cm or s30v?

And, their "promises" to customers like release dates are really not intended for individual consumers.  That practice has really only come to light since the 'net got big and fancy and sites like this one allow you to access information like that.  If you didn't know any better, you'd be like anyone else and just buy something or not when you saw it on the shelf at your local sporting goods store.

Def

[thebullfrog]

Why do I think you would try and justify it? Well, partly just to provide counter-point. Let's face it, you can't have a good argument, err conversation, without an opposing view  Partly because often times you know things that we don't, and for all I know you have some super-secret information about the situation that I don't. And while I don't think you owe any loyalty to anybody, and are certainly not one to suck up to any one company or another, at the same time I wouldn't expect you to wind up burning any bridges and may or may not need to take some discretion in what you say. That is all I meant by that, not any kind of accusation that you are "buddy-buddy" with any person or company or anything like that.

 As for why would the multi-tool crowd be such a low priority? Well you said it yourself: a lot of them make a half-hearted attempt. Trying half assed, then wondering why you failed and decide the market isn't worthwhile is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy isn't it? If the multi-tool industry really were so irrelevant, I fail to see how Victorinox/Wenger, Leatherman, Gerber, and yes SOG, would be doing so well in this arena. Anywhere you go "Swiss army knife" and "Leatherman" are ubiquitous terms, just about any random person knows what they are. The market can't be THAT small now can it? I understand SOG is a (damn good generally) knife maker first, and tool maker second. Just as the inverse is true of Leatherman. But look at it this way: Leatherman doesn't announce some fancy new knife every so often, promise it by some date, then repeatedly fail to deliver, now do they? Just because it's a secondary product line, doesn't mean you act like your customers of that product line are of lesser importance to you. A customer is a customer, period.

As for their promises to customers not being an issue until the internet got big? Too effing bad SOG, the internet IS big, many many people buy most of their stuff online, especially from companies like SOG who have a rather small retail presence (to his day I have seen 3 places in person carry any SOG items at all). Fancy sites like this one DO exist. A lot of them in fact. SOG needs to learn to deal with that fact a bit more maturely.

Like you said, SOG is a very successful company, and have been around a long time, but a lot of their customer base, both tool and knife, has been very vocally upset with them lately, and they have done little to nothing about it. I remember when Chris@SOG used to always be around and very helpful on various forums. Since people started getting fed up with some of their recent decisions, I hardly ever see the guy anywhere any more (I lurk on several knife forums). Also: while it's true that not all they do can be all bad if they are as successful as they are, it's also true that they recently sold out to an investment firm so it is entirely possible that they aren't as successful lately as they would have us believe, and if that is the case (obviously, I don't know if it is) then maybe it's continuing practices like vaporware tools that are helping cause the problems.

[Grant Lamontagne]

The sell out to an investment firm allowed them to acquire ToolLogic a few months ago, so obviously they can't be doing that bad.

Why are we a low priority?  Because we all balk at a  multitool that costs over $100.  Leatherman is the only manufacturer so far to be able to produce a $100 plus tool (Charge TTi) over $100 and actuially manage to sell it.  They are hoping to do it again with the MUT, but the bottom line is, no one pays that much for multitools.  However, as a knife forum lurker, I'm sure you are aware that you just barely scratch the surface for a knife at $100.  Knives which have less part and spend a lot less time on the drawing board and testing phases because there is a lot less to them.  Which means, lower investment, higher profit.  Multitools are higher investment, lower profit.

Then there's the fact that yes, at the moment, utility does seem to be higher valued than "tacticool" as lots of knife manufacturers are coming out with tools, or at least adding bottle openers, glass punches and/or screwdrivers to their knives, but then this happened in the 90's as well, which by the way is when all the great "collectible" multitools came out.  Things like the Flair, the Pulse, Kershaw's A-100, the Vic SportRatchet and AutoTool, Wenger's Swiss Business Tool and SwissGrip, Spyderco's SpydeRench and so on.  The market is on the upswing right now, which is why everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.  The great thing about bandwagons is the low sides, which allows folks to jump off it as quickly as they jumped on.

Yes the 'net has changed the way businesses operate, and SOG has actually been pretty good about taking advantage of that- the fact that Chris@SOG is on the forums enough that you know who he is is proof of that.  How many folks from other companies do you see here or on other forums?  Each company just does things their own way, and you can't expect a corporation to change overnight.

Def

[thebullfrog]

Oh believe me, the fact that Chris@SOG is awesome IMO. I was simply responding to your statement that people in relatively large numbers hearing of release dates, projects in the works, etc. is more widely spread because of the internet. If people seeing these "promises" broken is truly an effect of the internet, then SOG clearly needs to take that into better account when it comes to releasing information too soon.

I understand the vast rift in profit margins between a knife and a multi, and yes a $100 is barely entry level in many cases in the knife world, and yes, us multi-tool buyers are indeed cheap smurfs. But I believe that if you, as a company, are going to put out a product, than you need to have the same dedication to it, and treat the consumers of that product exactly the same as your primary customer, otherwise don't bother at all.

I am aware of the investment firm/ Tool Logic connection, but none of us know the full story. Was the Tool Logic acquisition the only reason? If they didn't have the money themselves to buy another company, was it really such a good idea to do it? I was just saying that it is possible there's more problems behind the scene than we know of. It is also entirely possible that the only real issue is they need to start being more careful about how/when they announce products. The fact is, we as customers have no idea what is going on over there, unless Chris decides to suddenly show up and tell us himself.  I know that from my end, after seeing this pattern over and over again, I'm not in too big a hurry to hand them any more of my money, because I don't like what I see. Honestly, I wish Chris would post here and give us better information about WTF is going on lately with all their issues in getting tools released, and prematurely announcing things. But as we've alredy seemed to establish, we are multi-tool buyers and therefore SOG doesn't give a rats ass about us. If something like say, the Vulcan (I LOVE mine BTW) had been repeatedly delayed or even cancelled, you bet Chris would be on Bladeforums, Knife Forums, etc. explaining what it is up. Same thing happens over here, and we get ignored. Now I know Vic, LM, etc. don't even HAVE a rep. on any forums anywhere, so in a sense SOG has a lead there, but at least they treat the customers of all their products with an equal amount of indifference lol.

In all honesty, I love SOG, when I sold all my knives, my SOG is the only thing I kept, I bought a second Powerlock after hating (and breaking) my first one, because I had faith they addressed the flaws in the old model (for the most part they did), my one experience with their cust. service was simply perfect. They ARE a great company. I'm just tired of them repeatedly promising such cool new things, and then not being able to deliver on time, or ever for that matter. After the third tool in a row they did this with, multiple times with each tool in fact, I'm just sick of feeling like I'm getting lied to all the time.

[ari6126]

I'm just tired of them repeatedly promising such cool new things, and then not being able to deliver on time, or ever for that matter.

I think this why people are so upset with SOG. The stuff is cool. In terms of the PowerCut, how many other multitools out there were similar? The ToolClip is so exciting because for about the same price as a Style, you get a full size tool. As much as people say SOG isn't innovating, if they weren't we wouldn't be getting so upset.

A side note, Def, why is there no advertising from the Multitool brands here? It seems like this would be the perfect place for Leatherman and SOG to buy some banner ads. I mean this site is kind of a big deal. Isn't it worth over $40000?

[Sazabi]

A side note, Def, why is there no advertising from the Multitool brands here? It seems like this would be the perfect place for Leatherman and SOG to buy some banner ads. I mean this site is kind of a big deal. Isn't it worth over $40000?

It would be my thought that if they were to do that, the companies in question would be able to hold sway over negative reviews and the like; no different from how some magazines are barred from negative reviews due to the company having full-page ads. :/

[thebullfrog]

In theory Sazabi, you could be correct, in reality however I really couldn't see Grant ever allowing that to happen in any way. On a related note however, by not having the major manufacturers advertise here, it eliminates the possibility of anyone ever being able to accuse Grant of exactly that if they disagree about the quality of some item.

[Sazabi]

In theory Sazabi, you could be correct, in reality however I really couldn't see Grant ever allowing that to happen in any way. On a related note however, by not having the major manufacturers advertise here, it eliminates the possibility of anyone ever being able to accuse Grant of exactly that if they disagree about the quality of some item.

I know Grant wouldn't let that happen, I was just playing Devil's advocate, is all.

[Grant Lamontagne]

As I said before, I'm a whore, just not a cheap whore.  If Leatherman, SOG, Gerber or anyone else was to call me up tomorrow and offer me enough money, I'd sign Multitool.org over to them with no hesitation.  And, I'd be sure to send you all postcards from my new hacienda in an undisclosed location.  You'll all appreciate that as the postcard will include gratuitous shots of my new "wives."



Seriously, we have been very careful about our advertising in the past, which is why you don't see a lot of ads here compared to other sites.  We consider advertising dollars from dealers as they are folks who are just like the rest of us- working stiffs trying to make a buck.  Manufacturers do not advertise here because we are a great source of info for them, and they don't want to sully the waters.  The only way I would accept money from any of the manufacturers for advertising is if I took the same amount from all of them so we could maintain our unbiased look at things.

Whether I would have a bought and paid for opinion isn't the issue here- it's the insinuation that I'd be biased if anyone paid for a review that I'm concerned about.  Right now we are in a good place- everyone hates me pretty much the same...

Def

[6thtexas]

Well, looks like the Micro Toolclip isn't listed or shown on the SOG website now.

Has it truly went the way of the powercut?

[Chako]

Hope not. I prepaid for one of each of the Multitool.org models. 

[jekostas]

Well, looks like the Micro Toolclip isn't listed or shown on the SOG website now.

Has it truly went the way of the powercut?

The Micro ToolClip is still up on the website if you do a Google search and jump straight to the product page and the "Preorder" link still exists, but it's been removed from the item listing from the directory.  There have been no press releases about it either.

Not exactly encouraging.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Well, looks like the Micro Toolclip isn't listed or shown on the SOG website now.

Has it truly went the way of the powercut?

Information pending... I have some info that is not yet confirmed/official.  I will of course pass it along as soon as it's more than a rumor.

Def

[Chako]

Sounds good Def. I hope they don't cancel it.

[dbnyc]

I'm very eager to get one or two of these, to have an option for the pocket clip spot in my current rotation (which currently consists of my bladeless Octane or nothing.)

These are unique in having a pocket clip, so a regular SAK, even those with more implements (disregarding the big pliers) doesn't really fit in the same category at least as far as my carry is concerned.

[scrappy]

My guess is it is cancelled and sog has plans to eventually leave the multitool market