Teach me about kayaks!

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Ok blame def (again) but I'm now interested in kayaks I've got a bit of experience with canoes but none on kayaks!

Personally I'd be after a inflatable one (not this year though as I'm skint ) as not having a car it would be a bit of a bugger fitting 20foot of kayak on the train ;D

It'd also have to carry two and come camping gear

So what advantages have kayaks got over canoes?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Kayaks come in two varieties- sit on top and enclosed models.  I prefer the enclosed models as you sit lower and you don't have to bail as much since much of the water that washes over the bow washes off the side. 

If you are going with an inflatable one I think you are limited to sit on top.  Sit on tops are easier to get in and out of, but ride a little higher.  They are also usually some kind of plastic while the enclosed ones (better ones anyway) are fiberglass. 

Most kayaks (except for the cheap ones showing up in department stores these days) will have a fair bit of storage space.  Again, the enclosed models have more interior space, but the sit on tops can have the stuff piled on them.  They have enclosed, waterproof storage similar to the enclosed kayaks, but are generally much smaller.  Also, you can store stuff on the outside of an enclosed kayak with all the tie down straps, but not as much as you could pile on the sit on tops.

River or whitewater kayaks are shorter- usually under ten feet and are highly maneuverable but don't track well.  Longer, touring canoes track better (stay straight when paddling) and are more comfortable but don't turn as sharply, which is why they tend to have rudders on them.  With a rudder they become quite manageable, but again, no where near as agile as the river runners.

You can get a cheap one man inflatable kayak for about $250, but I'd expect to pay between $500 and $700 for a decent one.

Always get a decent PFD- don't cheap out on that!  There are dedicated paddling ones that can cost a fortune, but you should be able to get a comfortable one for $50-70 if you look around.  Mine is a neoprene paddling model that I think was around $55, and it's very flexible and comfortable.  If you don't get a good one, you'll feel like someone duct taped foam blocks to you, and you probably won't want to wear it.

Advantages over canoes-

Easier to portage with one person.  I can carry a 17 foot kayak myself.  I wouldn't try that with a 17 foot canoe.

Waterproof Storage.  Many canoes come with built in waterproof boxes, but most don't.  You can bring your own waterproof box, but it'll float away if you upset.

Faster.  A cheap department store kayak will be about 24" wide, and draft 2-3 inches.  Very low drag means you go much faster with less paddling.  A good canoe will be about 28-30" wide and draft 3-4 inches, causing much greater drag.  My kayak drafts at about an inch and a half to 2 inches and is 22" wide.

Easier to paddle.  Need to paddle on the left?  There's a paddles there.  Need to paddle on the right?  There's a paddle there!  Double ended paddles vs single, dedicated oar in a canoe means you can reach both sides without splashing.

There's more, but that should get you started!

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

thanks def!

here,s the sort of thing i,m thinking off for next year...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-SEVYLOR-KRC79-RANGER-2-MAN-INFLATABLE-CANOE-KAYAK_W0QQitemZ180147319065QQihZ008QQcategoryZ87090QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

what do ya reckon?

[I'm Still Bison]

 I like it...I could use one like that to get some experience on the lakes around here.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Looks pretty good to me!

Make sure you bring a patch kit though- rocks can be pretty unforgiving.

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Looks pretty good to me!

Make sure you bring a patch kit though- rocks can be pretty unforgiving.

Def

I'm a little worried about puncture's too, but short of buying a car just to cart a rigid kayak about i think inflatable is the only way for me to go

mind you i could always put my motorcycle liecence to good use on one of these...

http://www.uralmotorbikes.info/Specials.htm

scroll down a bit to the sidecar/boat ;D ;D

I want one, goes against my greener nature, but its just sooo cool ;D ;D

[I'm Still Bison]

There was a sidecar boat? I couldn't quite get past the sleeper caravan sidecar!!!!

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

There was a sidecar boat? I couldn't quite get past the sleeper caravan sidecar!!!!

The little In me really, really wants one

[Grant Lamontagne]

There's a line of kayaks that might be worth looking into as well for you- they have inflatable sides but a hard plastic, molded keel that folds in half when the sides are deflated.  It takes up more room than the completely inflatable ones, but the hard bottom is much more resistant to rocks and other nasty stuff.

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

There's a line of kayaks that might be worth looking into as well for you- they have inflatable sides but a hard plastic, molded keel that folds in half when the sides are deflated.  It takes up more room than the completely inflatable ones, but the hard bottom is much more resistant to rocks and other nasty stuff.

Def

got a link mate?

what are they called, semi ridged kayaks

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

There's a line of kayaks that might be worth looking into as well for you- they have inflatable sides but a hard plastic, molded keel that folds in half when the sides are deflated.  It takes up more room than the completely inflatable ones, but the hard bottom is much more resistant to rocks and other nasty stuff.

Def

got a link mate?

what are they called, semi ridged kayaks

in fact of got a link for you!...

http://www.yostwerks.com/

[Grant Lamontagne]

I will have to call the local kayak shop where I saw them to see what the name on them was, but you'd be better finding something online.  The one I was looking at was a single seat model for a mere $995!

Def

[665ae]

Ok, you guys need to stop.  You're starting to get ME interested in kayaking...

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I will have to call the local kayak shop where I saw them to see what the name on them was, but you'd be better finding something online.  The one I was looking at was a single seat model for a mere $995!

Def

Is it just me or has everything just rocketted in price in the last 6 - 8 years

seriously everything's gone from being moderatley priced to silly money almost overnight, It's a tad annoying

[Grant Lamontagne]

Many more folks have silly money to waste these days.  Or, more accurately, banks and financial institutions are having a good old time extending high interest loans to folks so they can get a few more high end toys to play with.

MSRP on my boat is $3,000, which I would never have paid for a kayak unless it was solid plutonium and the seat was woven with the cast off underwear from supermodels.

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

MSRP on my boat is $3,000, which I would never have paid for a kayak unless it was solid plutonium and the seat was woven with the cast off underwear from supermodels.

Def

You've got such a wonderful way with words mate

do ya reckon they do bike saddles from the same sorta stuff? ;D

[Grant Lamontagne]

Maybe, but I doubt guys like you and I could afford them!   

Def

[I'm Still Bison]

Sorta makes working in that repair shop a dream job doesn't it?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Yup...  I bet working in a repair shop on $10,000 bikes would pay pretty good!

Def

[I'm Still Bison]

I'd love the chance to find out...hope does spring eternal

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Maybe, but I doubt guys like you and I could afford them!   

Def

That is sadly so true ;D

[Grant Lamontagne]

The nice thing is that it's pretty late in the season so you may find yourself some decent sales coming up soon. 

Another good idea is to start with a cheap inflatable.

http://www.sosakonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=192&Itemid=35

The one in the second picture there was about $100 and came with paddles.  That would give you a chance to get out and enjoy yourself a little and give you the opportunity to get all the other stuff you need to go.  Most places require safety lines, bailing equipment, pfd's etc that can all add a serious amount to the cost of the boat itself.  One quote I got for a $600 kayak worked out to $1,000 by the time they added in the paddles, the pfd, the safety kit, the whistle etc etc etc.  At least with something like that you'd get a reasonably inexpensive look at whether or not it's something you'd enjoy or do often enough to invest some money into it.

Plus, that three man boat I have pictured will carry over 600 pounds safely and has three separate chambers to keep you afloat in case bad stuff happens.  Mind you it doesn't paddle as swiftly or smoothly as a kayak, but it is also a hundred times more stable!

I plan to carry it in the kayak on long trips just in case I should puncture the fiberglass and can't patch it.  I can inflate the "backup boat" and try to tow my kayak home.  Or, you can inflate the inflatable partway inside whichever compartment is ruptured and use it to maintain the buoyancy of the 'yak.

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

The nice thing is that it's pretty late in the season so you may find yourself some decent sales coming up soon. 

Another good idea is to start with a cheap inflatable.

http://www.sosakonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=192&Itemid=35

The one in the second picture there was about $100 and came with paddles.  That would give you a chance to get out and enjoy yourself a little and give you the opportunity to get all the other stuff you need to go.  Most places require safety lines, bailing equipment, pfd's etc that can all add a serious amount to the cost of the boat itself.  One quote I got for a $600 kayak worked out to $1,000 by the time they added in the paddles, the pfd, the safety kit, the whistle etc etc etc.  At least with something like that you'd get a reasonably inexpensive look at whether or not it's something you'd enjoy or do often enough to invest some money into it.

Plus, that three man boat I have pictured will carry over 600 pounds safely and has three separate chambers to keep you afloat in case bad stuff happens.  Mind you it doesn't paddle as swiftly or smoothly as a kayak, but it is also a hundred times more stable!

I plan to carry it in the kayak on long trips just in case I should puncture the fiberglass and can't patch it.  I can inflate the "backup boat" and try to tow my kayak home.  Or, you can inflate the inflatable partway inside whichever compartment is ruptured and use it to maintain the buoyancy of the 'yak.

Def

Thats not a bad idea mate, I thought I'd take a leaf out of ray mears's book and make my own paddles

But I do think an inflatable is the way to go for me

[Grant Lamontagne]

Start carving now- oars take a long time to do properly!   ;D

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Start carving now- oars take a long time to do properly!   ;D

Def

True, but i've got to figure out what wood to use first

[Grant Lamontagne]

Whatever is cheap and plentiful in your area.  I guarantee you won't be happy with the first dozen or so!

Def

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Whatever is cheap and plentiful in your area.  I guarantee you won't be happy with the first dozen or so!

Def

I take it you've made a few in your time then

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'm Canadian... when it comes to oars, that's all we do!  Well, that and hockey and beer, but those are more evening activities!   

Def

[I'm Still Bison]

I'm Canadian... when it comes to oars, that's all we do!  Well, that and hockey and beer, but those are more evening activities!   

Def

         Since an oar loks like a misshapen hockey stick,I guess that's a natural extension of the woodworker's craft.At the museum in Boonesboro State Park,KY,there's a wall display of paddles made from the various native trees,several have some beautiful graining.