I REALLY am trying to give Gerber a chance.

[nelly1974]

  So after my getting verbally spanked by a few members on this forum for criticizing Gerbers , i decided to ask my brother if he wanted to trade back my old gerber blunt nose 600 so i can carry it for a while and test it out. My brother tells me he never used it and that he will just give it to me. So needless to say, i am as happy as a pig in mud with my new multi, i start playing with it and flicking it open and stuff. So today i needed to cut a clothes hanger, you know one of those thin copper or whatever they are made of cheap clothes hangers. so i start to clip a peice off here and another peice off there and suddenly one of the carbide cutters cracks into little peices and the whole one side of the plier head is left without a cutter
And no, it was not already cracked, i had looked it over well and cleaned it up real good before using it.
  My dear Gerber loving brethren, i just really cannot take serious a medium sized multi that can't even cut a clothes hanger, I am TRULY trying to give gerber a chance here but they always seem to dissapoint me.

[porteiro]

So today i needed to cut a clothes hanger, you know one of those thin copper or whatever they are made of cheap clothes hangers.

Those are steel, not copper.

[nelly1974]

So today i needed to cut a clothes hanger, you know one of those thin copper or whatever they are made of cheap clothes hangers.

Those are steel, not copper.

  OK. But does that justify a medium sized multi not being able to cut them?
I have cut clothe hangers with my lm juice and my little lm pst with no problem.

[DaveK]

Did you use the hard-wire notch?

[Styerman]

I had an early one( 90's vintage )break trying to tighten a 3/8" nut ( a pressure adjustment on a door closer - not torqued down with an impact gun or rusted ) . I have used Leatherman and Vic. tools in  much more challenging circumstances , with much happier results .

Not that my feeling about them hurt Gerber , they ain't getting any of my coin no more . A couple of Buddies in the Canadian Armed forces , have broken several , and replaced them with Waves .

Chris

[porteiro]

Carbide is a lot more brittle than steel is.  While it's good for cutting, it's bad for taking shocks.  If you attacked that thick steel wire with any carbide cutter, in such a way to give it a jolt, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it cracked.

[nelly1974]

Did you use the hard-wire notch?

Yes Sir.
I always use the hard wire notch when available on the multi unless I am cutting soft wire.

[nelly1974]

Carbide is a lot more brittle than steel is.  While it's good for cutting, it's bad for taking shocks.  If you attacked that thick steel wire with any carbide cutter, in such a way to give it a jolt, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it cracked.

  That's good to know but i don't think i cut it any differently than i have with any other tool.
On the first cut it clipped it like a champ, putting a pleasant smile on my face but after a few cuts it just went.
Now i have to coff up 20 bucks to buy new cutters
No more smiles.

[porteiro]

  That's good to know but i don't think i cut it any differently than i have with any other tool.

Well, yeah -- there's the problem.

I'm assuming that most of those other tools have steel cutters, like most leathermans?  You don't have to be careful with steel cutters like you do with carbide cutters.

[nelly1974]

 That's good to know but i don't think i cut it any differently than i have with any other tool.

Well, yeah -- there's the problem.

I'm assuming that most of those other tools have steel cutters, like most leathermans?  You don't have to be careful with steel cutters like you do with carbide cutters.

 Well it goes back to my original point that Gerbers are just not up to par with the other major Multi Tool making companies.
Maybe they should start making the cutters out of premium steel like they do at leatherman for the 300.
 Also these 600s are supposedly assigned to the military. I assume that the military men will use their multis for far more demanding tasks then cutting clothes hangers.

[Multitaskertools]

i cracked the carbide cutters on my 600 too - maybe that's why they're designed to be replaceable 

[porteiro]

Well it goes back to my original point that Gerbers are just not up to par with the other major Multi Tool making companies.

You're comparing apples and oranges.  Anybody's carbide inserts are going to have problems if you treat them like steel cutters.  It's not a quality issue.

Maybe they should start making the cutters out of premium steel like they do at leatherman for the 300.

Again, that's a design decision, not a quality issue.  Personally, I don't think the benefits outweigh the negatives for carbide inserts, but YMMV.

[DaveK]

Well it goes back to my original point that Gerbers are just not up to par with the other major Multi Tool making companies.

You're comparing apples and oranges.  Anybody's carbide inserts are going to have problems if you treat them like steel cutters.  It's not a quality issue.

Maybe they should start making the cutters out of premium steel like they do at leatherman for the 300.

Again, that's a design decision, not a quality issue.  Personally, I don't think the benefits outweigh the negatives for carbide inserts, but YMMV.

Quite right

[TxSxB]

I think your just over-estimating the carbide, it is VERY hard, but it's also far more brittle than steel and as far as "premium" steel being used for Gerbers I cut through 1/4" stranded cable with my Freehand without a chip, roll or notch. I wouldn't even dream of trying doing that with my Charge TTi, and I'm fairly certain Gerber uses the same steel for the Freehand and the MP600.  

[nelly1974]

 No sir, the freehand does not have carbide inserts.
So not a good comparison.

[TxSxB]

I have MP's without the carbide cutter and they have the same steel, although a different style of cutter than the Freehand, I was just saying that Gerber's steel that they use in their tools is premium enough to cut stranded steel cable so it must not be that crappy.

[nelly1974]

 No not crappy, it does have its pros such as the the one hand openening pliers but I am saying its just not at the same level of quality as a similar sized sog, leatherman or swisstool.
 

[DaveK]

No not crappy, it does have its pros such as the the one hand openening pliers but I am saying its just not at the same level of quality as a similar sized sog, leatherman or swisstool.
 

And I beg to differ

Those carbide cutters are rated highly by many. Just because they don't cut your coat hanger doesn't mean they are of lower quality, it simply means that they are not designed to cut coat hangers

I'm not expert enough in these things to suggest what they are designed for, but I do know that they are well established and cherished tools, maybe just with people who don't cut coat hangers though

The most aggressive thing I've done with mine is cut 3-ply electrical flex, which it did very adeptly, and although I've not needed to so far, the idea that you can rotate the cutter 120 degrees when it gets blunt is just inspired. The other tools on the MP600 are up there with the best on the market too IMO.

[nelly1974]

No not crappy, it does have its pros such as the the one hand openening pliers but I am saying its just not at the same level of quality as a similar sized sog, leatherman or swisstool.
 

And I beg to differ

Those carbide cutters are rated highly by many. Just because they don't cut your coat hanger doesn't mean they are of lower quality, it simply means that they are not designed to cut coat hangers

I'm not expert enough in these things to suggest what they are designed for, but I do know that they are well established and cherished tools, maybe just with people who don't cut coat hangers though

The most aggressive thing I've done with mine is cut 3-ply electrical flex, which it did very adeptly, and although I've not needed to so far, the idea that you can rotate the cutter 120 degrees when it gets blunt is just inspired. The other tools on the MP600 are up there with the best on the market too IMO.

  Dave I respectfully disagree. A coat hanger shouldn't even be a challenge for a medium or large multi tool. Especially in today's market where multis far exceed what they are designed for the Gerber just lags behind big time.
As for "The other tools on the MP600 are up there with the best on the market" i have to say also that its just not so (IMO).
The lanyard gets in the way of the already TOO short philips screw driver and again the lanyard is practically useless because it doesnt allow the tools next to them to open properly because it doesnt go back far enough. The can opener is practically unusable and the all of the tools in the handles are shorter than similar sized multis from other companies.
 
 I love the one hand opening plier head, and in my opinion the gerber scissors are the best but as for the rest of the components and the cutters, they are not all that great. (My Humble Opinion)

[Charger]

maybe you should try standing on it and cutting a screw

I agree with what has been said about multi's cutting a coat hanger.  A hard wire notch should not be included if it can't hold up to the stress.  If gerber just left it at regular wire cutter and had no notch or claims, it might go over better.  It's when a tool is claiming to have an ability that it fails at that is disappointing. 

[nelly1974]

A hard wire notch should not be included if it can't hold up to the stress.       

 Yeap.

[nelly1974]

  Well some positive news.
   I  called Gerber and spoke to a lovely lady and explained to her what happened and she kindly told me that a coat hanger is too thick and hard for the carbide cutters to cut. I explained to her that i did this with much thicker items on a regular basis with my leathermans and swisstools. She again repeated that the carbide cutters were not designed for such a hard and thick material but that its limit was a number 2 fish hook, but then kindly said i can send you a new set of carbide cutters for free.

  She could have just told me it was my own fault for "abusing" the 600 but she instead gave me a new respect for Gerber,atleast in regards to their customer service.

[jekostas]

 Well some positive news.
   I  called Gerber and spoke to a lovely lady and explained to her what happened and she kindly told me that a coat hanger is too thick and hard for the carbide cutters to cut. I explained to her that i did this with much thicker items on a regular basis with my leathermans and swisstools. She again repeated that the carbide cutters were not designed for such a hard and thick material but that its limit was a number 2 fish hook, but then kindly said i can send you a new set of carbide cutters for free.

  She could have just told me it was my own fault for "abusing" the 600 but she instead gave me a new respect for Gerber,atleast in regards to their customer service.

Wow...

I personally have a love/hate relationship with Gerber.  I've never been a fan of the sliding-jaws plier head design, but a number of their butterfly-style open MTs (especially the newer ones) I've gotten along with pretty well.

[J-sews]

Interesting discussion. From a design standpoint, I wonder why on earth Gerber decided to switch to cutters made of carbide in the first place?! For soft copper and aluminum wire, carbide offers absolutely no advantage over their old steel wire cutters. The only reason I can think of for using carbide cutters would be for cutting steel wire, yet they seem to shatter when cutting steel. It makes no sense.  

[jzmtl]

Carbide cutter excel in some area but sucks in others. For small diameter hardened steel it's awesome. I dented one of my tool steel side cutter trimming some fishing stuff, but the carbide cutter on gerber sail through them like nothing.

Interestingly they don't seem to do well on soft large diameter stuff, probably put too much sideway stress on them due to the bypass design.

[Mercury]

Carbide is a lot more brittle than steel is.  While it's good for cutting, it's bad for taking shocks.  If you attacked that thick steel wire with any carbide cutter, in such a way to give it a jolt, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it cracked.

Actually, you have it backwards.  When properly fitted into a holder, carbide inserts are terrific about taking a bit of shock, it's the contant pressure that cracks them.  The problem with these carbide inserts is that they are superheated pressed carbide dust, not cast carbide.  They are terribly brittle and should only be used with a tight anchor and solid backing system, like on a boring bar or shell mill, as in Machining applications.  They are a design flaw from the start and never should have been installed on a multi.  They do not have a high sheer strength and cannot take the force that squeezing pliers puts on cutters.   LM's 154cm cutters are the winner with the replaceable cutter scene.

[porteiro]

Huh.  Interesting.

[Styerman]

The only pliers I know of in the real world ( outside of Multidom ) that have carbide jaws are for cutting Kevlar braid on cables , and stainless steel shock leaders for salt water gamefishing . Leatherman always was well regarded if the Fishing world , Gerber might well have wanted to appeal to this well heeled demographic . Leatherman got it right with the Supertool 300 , as 154CM is not too bad for shock resistance , and wears well against mild steel .

Chris

[TxSxB]

The only pliers I know of in the real world ( outside of Multidom ) that have carbide jaws are for cutting Kevlar braid on cables , and stainless steel shock leaders for salt water gamefishing . Leatherman always was well regarded if the Fishing world , Gerber might well have wanted to appeal to this well heeled demographic . Leatherman got it right with the Supertool 300 , as 154CM is not too bad for shock resistance , and wears well against mild steel .

Chris

 

Huh? 





Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edit: BTW thats a carbide and double cut file

[Styerman]

My point exactly , the Carbide works great for cutting kevlar braid and stainless shock leaders , works great on the models optimized for fishing . Not a smart marketing move to put them on more general pourpose pliers .

That model was intended to break into the Salt water gamefishing market . There are/were a lot of very expensive carbide jawed pliers ion that market , for example the ones made by Abel ( of fancy Fly reel fame ) .

Chris