Australian Knife Laws

[Elevatorman]

Sadly these laws have absolutely nothing to do with public safety or criminal activity, they are 100% to have total and complete control of YOU. I feel sad for yall as an American with rights to bear arms. Honestly if I lived in Australia I'd be getting my passport together to leave and move to America.

I seen what they did to yall a couple years ago.... they never tried that here. Sadly the brits fell down the same path, you cannot give them an inch or they'll take it all and you'll quickly look like Australia.

Nothing against you guys that live there, my empathy is with you.


*Distasteful and politcal comment removed

[SteveC]

Anymore politcal comments and this thread will be locked.

[Aloha]

Vidar  .  Such a tough conversation to be had without myself stepping over the line.  I appreciate your response. 

I am not above adhering to MTOs no politics talk. 

[Sea Monster]

Sadly these laws have absolutely nothing to do with public safety or criminal activity, they are 100% to have total and complete control of YOU. I feel sad for yall as an American with rights to bear arms. Honestly if I lived in Australia I'd be getting my passport together to leave and move to America.

I seen what they did to yall a couple years ago.... they never tried that here. Sadly the brits fell down the same path, you cannot give them an inch or they'll take it all and you'll quickly look like Australia.

Nothing against you guys that live there, my empathy is with you.


*Distasteful and politcal comment removed

Ah, but you don't live in Australia though do you, so I don't imagine your opinion on what it is like to live there is worth much 

[Valkie]

My God! Why do they even allow you in public? 

They don't have any choice.
I'm still working so If they stop me, I can't work and their taxes are gone.

Went into Sydney the other day, on the train.
A guy got on with a large bag that looked quite heavy.
He was stopped at Circular Quay, where I got off, they checked his bag, it was full of tools.
He was allowed to go with no further comment, I recon I could do more damage with his tools than my pocket knife.

[Valkie]

Without getting all political and ranting as I have a proclivity to do.
I'm not a criminal.
I don't want to carry nasty, huge or fighting knives.
I have no need for a weapon to protect myself.
all I want is to be able to carry a useful tool when and where I want .

As a boy scout 40 something years ago, we all carried pocket knives.
Dad always had a knife on hand.
As I progressed through Venturers and Rovers, went bush a lot, hunting, hiking and just enjoying camping.
I always had some sort of knife.
It was an accepted practice to have a sharp knife on hand as it is so useful for so many things.
These new Multitools are even better (I wish they had been around 40 years ago)

I still carry "openly" my multitool when working for marine rescue, every sensible sailor has a knife.
I have used it many times in helping people and even saving a life
I also "openly" carry at work and also use it daily, more so cutting fruit than anything else lately.
When caravaning I have a multitool tucked away somewhere on me or in my bag, again, most helpful in a situation where a knife, pliers or screwdriver is needed in a hurry.

But everywhere else, I just have an empty sheath or nothing, often missing my handy tool.
I heard recently that a multitool even without a knife is now classed as a weapon, I haven't verified that yet, but I do know a screwdriver is.
My walking cane is ok...for now, but how soon before that also becomes a "weapon"?
And what about my wife's 14-pound purse with all its accoutrements...a weapon?  I think so, I've been hit with it.
Its getting sad, but that's the way it is, and I can't change it.
Perhaps one day, things will get more sensible.
But as long as we have idiots running around with machete and stabbing people with kitchen knives.
Small harmless pocketknives will alwyas be a soft target.

[gregozedobe]

Its getting sad, but that's the way it is, and I can't change it.
Perhaps one day, things will get more sensible.
But as long as we have idiots running around with machete and stabbing people with kitchen knives.
Small harmless pocketknives will alwyas be a soft target.

Unfortunately things have changed a lot from the "old days".
In the past very few people went around carrying a knife as a weapon and not many people were harmed by knives.
These days there is quite a lot of of (mostly younger) people who do carry a knife and are willing to use them as a weapon, so politicians and police have responded to this perceived threat to public order.
Which is where we are nowadays.  I don't like it either, but I can't see us going back to how things once were, with police willing and able to apply common sense.

[Elasmonut]

Laws are used by the police at thier discretion.
I had a few young cops give me a car search the other day, for having resting crim face, they asked if I had any weapons...I was honest and said there was a folder in my pocket, and likely a multitool in my bag....they didn't bat an eye or even ask about it. If you treat or talk about a knife as weapon, they will see it as a weapon and act accordingly.

[Valkie]

Laws are used by the police at thier discretion.
I had a few young cops give me a car search the other day, for having resting crim face, they asked if I had any weapons...I was honest and said there was a folder in my pocket, and likely a multitool in my bag....they didn't bat an eye or even ask about it. If you treat or talk about a knife as weapon, they will see it as a weapon and act accordingly.

I believe, like you, that attitude has a lot to do with how things go.
aggressive is matched with aggressive, and because these guys have guns, "you should never bring a knife to a gunfight"

The funny thing is that when wearing my rescue uniform, I wear my multitool openly and very visibly (for ease of access if I need it)
I have worked with police, other rescue personnel and even border and federal police in the course of my duties while being equipped.
The only time my Multitool has been mentioned was when a border officer noted that I had a Victornox multitool , as he had never seen one close up.
We discussed his Leatherman and my Victornox tools at length (while waiting for "something")
We discussed how and what we have used them for, never once was the "weapon" word used.

Why cant this level of innocence be assumed by all in our daily lives?

Surprisingly, he also carried an illegal spring-loaded knife, apparently not unusual I was advised.
But then, he also carried several other tools including torches and lighter, even though he didn't smoke.

I realise that knife crime is becoming a problem,
I also realise that the grubberment has to be seen to doing something about it.
but the existing laws were adequate, if only they were enforced, rather than making it illegal to carry such a useful tool.

England has become more sensible with some relaxation of their carry laws.
Perhaps one day, Australia will too............

[Valkie]

Australia has had a couple of deranged people wandering around attacking people over the last few weeks.

All of them have been mentally ill or belong to a gang and attacking each other.
You will all be aware of the Bondi attacks, it made the news all over the world.

But I stress, this attack and the one on the Christian preacher were done by mentally ill people, not ordinary people.

If they didnt have a knife they would have used something else
And the Bondi attacker was using a huge carving knife, not a multitool or pocket knife.

So, the response by the Australian grubberment?
Not to provide better mental health care (sadly lacking and in desperate need)
BOTH ATTACKERS HAD BEEN UNDER YEARS OF MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT, WHICH WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT WORKING.

They are introducing new laws and tightening up their powers to search "ANYONE"., "anywhere", "anytime" without any cause or reason.
Recent "knee Jerk" reaction was to start using metal detectors everywhere and they are having a field day.

So, I guess the death knell of carrying even a tiny Victornox classic has been rung.
No Australian may now carry anything without being potentially charged for carrying a "WEAPON".

The next stage will be that all food will have to be sold in bite sized pieces and all household knives confiscated, because you will no longer need or be allowed to have them.
Tradesmen will have to register all tools with serial numbers and carry authorization to use them.
All tools will need to be stored in locked cabinets when not being used.

Its so sad.

[Huntsman]

Indeed 

[Vidar]

Tradesmen will have to register all tools with serial numbers and carry authorization to use them.

We actually had a case here some years ago where 2 carpenters got fined for wearing knives in public. They had walked to a nearby cafe for lunch without stripping off the knives from their tool holding clothing. It was recogniced that the knives were for work and that they had the required civil use of the knives, but the lunch break was not considered work. Not sure how that would go down in Australia, but to me that fine was a lack of common sense.

I can only say that under current laws lots of what I and others did when we were younger would be illegal today. And yet, I'm pretty sure there are more stabbings today than back then. There is certainly a problem somewhere, but restricting knife access seems to be going after the sympoms instead of actual underlaying causes.

[Sea Monster]

Valkie is a being *slightly* histrionic with the serialised paint scrapers - but yes broadly australian state governments take big leaps with laws after every incident.

What's more frustrating is the populist methods - a politician will stand in the house of representatives and make a statement along the lines of "There is no reason a lawful person should have a knife on public transport!"

and everyone cheers "here! here!"

but...that's not true is it?

Some people catch the train to work, and they might have a lawful reason for a knife - tradies, chefs, students (who need to eat lunch, but do not have access to a "staff room" at their place of education), backpackers (tourism is one of our major exports....and any sensible traveler has a knife).

There's actually a bunch of lawful reasons why someone could have a knife...

but even that 45 seconds of desktop analysis is not conducted when it comes to driving legislative change in the wake of traumatic news story.



Without getting too into the political weeds - as a sort of "cultural explanation" for interested parties - the Australian States (Less the territories, because they are the "fun states" and generally have the least restrictive laws, not just in terms of knives, but for everything) - basically operate on a "who can be seen to be doing the most policing" platform - so every year they "tighten up" a Law about something or another to ensure they are "delivering safety". Then the other states find out, and "tighten up" their laws to "Bring them into alignment with other states" and so on....




So, obvious Knife Laws is a subject near and dear to the hearts of members here, in context, it might be worth considering that Australian states have on-the-spot fines for loitering, jaywalking, and even swearing.



For your safety.

[Valkie]

We actually had a case here some years ago where 2 carpenters got fined for wearing knives in public. They had walked to a nearby cafe for lunch without stripping off the knives from their tool holding clothing. It was recogniced that the knives were for work and that they had the required civil use of the knives, but the lunch break was not considered work. Not sure how that would go down in Australia, but to me that fine was a lack of common sense.

I can only say that under current laws lots of what I and others did when we were younger would be illegal today. And yet, I'm pretty sure there are more stabbings today than back then. There is certainly a problem somewhere, but restricting knife access seems to be going after the sympoms instead of actual underlaying causes.

Exactly my point.
although I was slightly less eloquent about it.

Its not the knives that are the problem, its the people that use them and the weak stance against criminals we have.

[Valkie]

Valkie is a being *slightly* histrionic with the serialised paint scrapers - but yes broadly australian state governments take big leaps with laws after every incident.

What's more frustrating is the populist methods - a politician will stand in the house of representatives and make a statement along the lines of "There is no reason a lawful person should have a knife on public transport!"

and everyone cheers "here! here!"

but...that's not true is it?

Some people catch the train to work, and they might have a lawful reason for a knife - tradies, chefs, students (who need to eat lunch, but do not have access to a "staff room" at their place of education), backpackers (tourism is one of our major exports....and any sensible traveler has a knife).

There's actually a bunch of lawful reasons why someone could have a knife...

but even that 45 seconds of desktop analysis is not conducted when it comes to driving legislative change in the wake of traumatic news story.



Without getting too into the political weeds - as a sort of "cultural explanation" for interested parties - the Australian States (Less the territories, because they are the "fun states" and generally have the least restrictive laws, not just in terms of knives, but for everything) - basically operate on a "who can be seen to be doing the most policing" platform - so every year they "tighten up" a Law about something or another to ensure they are "delivering safety". Then the other states find out, and "tighten up" their laws to "Bring them into alignment with other states" and so on....




So, obvious Knife Laws is a subject near and dear to the hearts of members here, in context, it might be worth considering that Australian states have on-the-spot fines for loitering, jaywalking, and even swearing.



For your safety.

Im an old F#$t and I still remember the old days.

At 10 I was given my first knife, when I joined the Boy Scouts.
I carried that knife everywhere (except school)
I used it to death, and even though it was a cheap Victorinox knock off, I loved that knife.

At 12 my friends and I got into spear fishing.
Fantastic pastime.
But, Because we were only 12, we had to use public transport to get to the beaches and rocks from where we fished.
we all carried spear guns and havasacks with our gear and, of course, our diving knives.

From 12 until I was old enough to drive, this was a very regular pastime.
most weekends in summer and a few in winter, off we would go, fully decked out with our huge spear guns.

In all those years, we were never once questioned or stopped by the police or any other authority.

I carried different knives (mostly tools as in Victorinox) all my life, used them for everything and anything.
Came in real handy too.
especially with the old bombs we drove and never carried any tools around in the boot.

My father always had a very sharp knife on him as well, an old Boker from memory.
It was used often to cut up fruit (which he loved) and fixing things.
for 70 years he carried that knife, the last 10 years he went to a small classic as knife laws were starting to worry him.
The most honest, placid and least dangerous man on earth felt intimidated for doing something he had always done.

I have quite a collection of knives now.
I trained in martial arts using hook knives and I have a few as well as a couple of rubber practice knives.
These things are seriously dangerous and I would never consider carrying them on me at any time.
They are pure weapons for serious damage.

But I also have many "Tools"  SAK, Leatherman, SOG etc.
These are TOOLS, not weapons.
Having trained with weapons, I would never consider one of these tools as even remotely capable of being a fighting weapon.
They are just not ergonomic or designed as such.

Now, and especially with the current fixation on knives, I carry my TOOLS only when working or doing my volunteering with the Rescue organization I work with.
Its sad
And many times I reach for my TOOL to be disappointed that its not there.

What will our next loss of freedom involve?
My walking cane?
My working tools?
Pens, belts, bags, steel capped shoes?
The list can grow as each new "FEAR" is exploited by corrupt and incompetent grubberments.

Sadly, this is life.
There is one area that has me confused.
A particular religion is allowed to carry a knife.
The purpose of this knife is stated as Culturally significant and religious.
But the true historical purpose of said knife (as stated by a friend who carries one) is as protection against another, (not to be mentioned ) religion.
Go figure?

[Sea Monster]

Point of interest: sgian dubhs are not considered culturally significant, so you can't wear them in public.

[nate j]

So…
1.  Start the church of MT.o
2.  Carry whatever you want
3.  Explain to anyone who questions you the religious significance of what you’re carrying

[Sea Monster]

Won't work in Aus. Getting a religion recognised there is quite difficult.


It would be e easier to create a new political party.

(
Or at least it used to be. They've made that more stringent too. I won't speculate as to the reasons.)

[Valkie]

My latest Australian Daily Carry

Can't have knives, tools, lighters (fire hazard and smoking in public is not allowed), nail clippers, torches (yes torches are considered a breaking and entering tool).

So this is my Daily Carry

[BPRoberts]

I'd love to see the text of the law Australia uses to outlaw flashlights.

[nate j]

I’m generally opposed to governments outlawing much of anything.

But when I see people hauling around 3+ D cell Maglites, or flashlights with “strike bezels”, I do wonder “Who do they think they are fooling?”

[matzesu]

One Moment Please: An Country where every second Animal trys to kill you bans  ?  So they get a worst Knive Law than Germany in the End..

[Vidar]

Im an old F#$t and I still remember the old days.

Hopefully I'll reach that honorable status too one day, but even without that I can remember getting my first SAK at 10. A Victorinox Fisherman (?) if I remember correctly - something fishy anyway. And of course I brought it to school to show off and compare with whatever other versions others in the class had. These days we would probably have been rounded up and made national news or something.

Of course, back then we also had monthly drills for quickly and organized evacuation into the schools bomb shelter - I guess the politicians were busy with bigger issues.

[IMR4198]

"Okay, just stay calm and nobody gets hurt.  Just put the money from the register in a bag and be quick about it.  I'm serious here.  I have a pair of nail clippers and I'm not afraid to use them.  Don't think I'm for real?  Here goes.  I'm gonna clip off TWO of my fingernails.  Right down to the quick.  There.  Now you see.  Get me a bottle of wine off that shelf too.  Not that one....the white.  I'm having fish tonight."
Best wishes.  G